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TOS Paper vs Live - Any noted differences?
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TOS Paper vs Live - Any noted differences?

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
fishers indiana/hamilton
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja and TOS
Favorite Futures: OIL
 
Sabine's Avatar
 
Posts: 18 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

TOS paper entries and exits are not realistic. Ninja SIM does a lot better job. Watch the time and sales flow when you are sim trading in TOS paper to be sure order flow actually happens at your entry and exit targets when live testing your strategy. You don't seem to have to do that with Ninja on futures from what I have seen.

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  #22 (permalink)
Elite Member
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra, IRT, ToS, Ninja
Broker/Data: Stage 5
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
bob7123's Avatar
 
Posts: 588 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 109 given, 1,909 received

Hi Sabine,

I talked to ToS support, and they said that they will turn on level 2 quoting in paper money if you have a funded account and ask them to do it. (Which they did for me) Dunno if you want to bother, but you may want to ask them to turn it on for you and see if it becomes more like Ninja.

BTW, I'm guessing that the quality of the simulated fills would depend more on the broker than the platform, no? Do you mind sharing who your broker is?

It is not up to me to tell ToS how to run their business, but I think not turning on full capability in paper money once an account is funded is a mistake. It only leads to confusion and bad press, and apparently puts them at a disadvantage to other brokers.

All that said, for me the real showstopper r/e short term futures trading is that after extensive emails back and forth, ToS will only extend day trading margins during RTH. As an American in Europe, that just won't work. (Probably wouldn't work for an insomniac in America either! )

I like a lot of their tools, esp for options, and I will remain a customer for longer term stuff, but for me the decision about using them for futures trading is done. (Unless of course they change their policies, but I'm not waiting around for that.)

Take care,
-Bob


Last edited by bob7123; March 18th, 2012 at 06:09 AM.
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  #23 (permalink)
Elite Member
fishers indiana/hamilton
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja and TOS
Favorite Futures: OIL
 
Sabine's Avatar
 
Posts: 18 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received



bob7123 View Post
Hi Sabine,

I talked to ToS support, and they said that they will turn on level 2 quoting in paper money if you have a funded account and ask them to do it. (Which they did for me) Dunno if you want to bother, but you may want to ask them to turn it on for you and see if it becomes more like Ninja.

BTW, I'm guessing that the quality of the simulated fills would depend more on the broker than the platform, no? Do you mind sharing who your broker is?

It is not up to me to tell ToS how to run their business, but I think not turning on full capability in paper money once an account is funded is a mistake. It only leads to confusion and bad press, and apparently puts them at a disadvantage to other brokers.

All that said, for me the real showstopper r/e short term futures trading is that after extensive emails back and forth, ToS will only extend day trading margins during RTH. As an American in Europe, that just won't work. (Probably wouldn't work for an insomniac in America either! )

I like a lot of their tools, esp for options, and I will remain a customer for longer term stuff, but for me the decision about using them for futures trading is done. (Unless of course they change their policies, but I'm not waiting around for that.)

Take care,
-Bob

I have a futures account with TOS but I don't use it as much I do the one with 3tfutures. 3tfutures is based out of Mobile, AL (everybody knows who teaches and trades from there). They have great customer support and some of the lowest margins I have run across. Check out their website and give them a call. I do know they have customers all over the world so it may work for your situation.

I have traded simultaneously on paper with both at the same time and it was my observation Ninja was more realistic in it's order management. I really like TOS for options although I don't do that much options trading currently.

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  #24 (permalink)
Elite Member
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra, IRT, ToS, Ninja
Broker/Data: Stage 5
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
bob7123's Avatar
 
Posts: 588 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 109 given, 1,909 received

OK, I'll take the bait... I don't know who trades out of Mobile AL. Please do tell for all us noobs.

I gotta tell you I was amused by trying to google it up and found this site: My Floor Trader | Flooring in Mississippi | Gautier, MS | Gulfport, MS | Mobile, AL.

I was all excited to find a floor trader in Mobile... Until I found out that they wanted to sell me a FLOOR! (LOL)

I'll check out 3tFutures, and see how they stack up. Been with them a while?

Thanks,
-Bob

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  #25 (permalink)
Elite Member
fishers indiana/hamilton
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja and TOS
Favorite Futures: OIL
 
Sabine's Avatar
 
Posts: 18 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received


bob7123 View Post
OK, I'll take the bait... I don't know who trades out of Mobile AL. Please do tell for all us noobs.

I gotta tell you I was amused by trying to google it up and found this site: My Floor Trader | Flooring in Mississippi | Gautier, MS | Gulfport, MS | Mobile, AL.

I was all excited to find a floor trader in Mobile... Until I found out that they wanted to sell me a FLOOR! (LOL)

I'll check out 3tFutures, and see how they stack up. Been with them a while?

Thanks,
-Bob

Tom Busby...(AKA P.T. Barnum or the new Jesse Livermore.) I have been with them for about 1 year with no problems. The trades go through fast and you can get someone on the phone if you call.

btw...Tom takes a lot of gaff from folks however I was in his trade room for a year and he and the other traders made a lot of good calls. I did not take their courses and don't use their system however I do subscribe to the tape reading method. They have a good grasp of the interconnection of the markets and use the DAX as a leading indicator for the US market. They are support resistance tape readers that trade well.

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  #26 (permalink)
Elite Member
fishers indiana/hamilton
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja and TOS
Favorite Futures: OIL
 
Sabine's Avatar
 
Posts: 18 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 6 received

btw, Bob...were you on Shadow Trader with Brad the other day?

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  #27 (permalink)
Elite Member
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra, IRT, ToS, Ninja
Broker/Data: Stage 5
Favorite Futures: NQ
 
bob7123's Avatar
 
Posts: 588 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 109 given, 1,909 received


Sabine View Post
btw, Bob...were you on Shadow Trader with Brad the other day?

YEP, that was me. Small world!

Actually I was pretty shocked I got on. My wife was working late, otherwise I'd have already shut down for the day, as the options expiry was making for a chopfest and it was past 7PM here. So I was just messing around and opened a google search window right before he asked the question, and I guess the rest is history...

Brad is a great guy. If you are ever in Philly, you should go say hello. Peter and the Prodigio people are in there too. (Actually they are in the suburbs, specifically Ardmore, PA)

BTW, I mentioned briefly in the chat that I'm investigating using Heiken Ashi Charts. Try taking the $TICK chart that Brad has up all day, but change the time to 1 minute and make it a Heiken Ashi chart. Let me know what you think, but I find it has a lot more value in showing market turns, and not just at the extremes. I find zooming in helps too.

Thanks again for the info about Tom Busby and 3tFutures. I'll definitely follow up.

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