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Lets talk about Windows 7 and 10 and other things.


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Lets talk about Windows 7 and 10 and other things.

  #1 (permalink)
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Lets talk about Windows 7 and 10 and other things.

Hi there guys I do not post for ages but lately I have been reading posts here on and off, so let’s talk about Windows 7/10 and others things.

Are you guys running Windows 7 or 10 at the moment on your current setup?

Are you happy with you current version of Windows in a way that it does not give you any problems [like updates that slow you down] and you are happy with Microsoft policies and tactics specially regarding Windows 10? What are your experiences with Windows 10?

If your current platform/data provider offer you a solution to switch to Linux let’s say Debian or openSUSE [known for being stable distros, and I can confirm that as I am running openSUSE Leap 42.2 with GNOME 3 extentions without problems] or even macOS which is Unix-Like would you still be using Windows on you current setup? [It appears Sierra Charts is serious working on a version of SC that is going to run natively on Linux and Macs]

Quote from their web site: “Sierra Chart is a stand-alone software program for Windows operating systems. We are working to add native support for Mac OS and Linux. This is an ongoing task.”
And there are quotes from them on their own forum and here about that as well that they are working on it. Now I do not use SC but as I heard and read good things about them so good impression and as long I am able to convert my custom studies to SC it would be a no-brainer switch for me.
It would be really nice to hear from @SierraChart

Do you guys think Windows is going to be the way forward for serious traders and other financial professionals, since financial exchanges around the would are running on Linux of course on the server side but still; CME, NYSE, NASDAQ, and London Stock Exchange which runs on SUSE Linux…

I think in my opinion there is a huge business opportunity here for platform/data feeds providers, developers/programmers etc where they could capitalize from those who are not happy with Microsoft monopoly, on a more retail side of trading as the exchanges and financial institutions already have their solutions. As long as they offer robust and stable solution on their end for retails traders.

I know that that are a lot of people including some and or even a lot of you of you guys are running Windows 7 and are reluctant to upgrade to Windows 10 for many reason

I am asking simply because I run into problems after I re-format my machine which I do every two years or so, in not only one copy of genuine MS Windows 7 but two copies, Windows 7 could not update, the updates was running forever like I tried for over 3 hours until I started to research and found out that that is in fact a well known problems with Windows 7 updates that keeps saying that is up dating but never updates. I colleague of mine @ABCTG who does some coding for me said that he thinks that they do that on purpose and the same thing happened to his machine but he had more luck than me and luckily was able to solve the problem.

I have tried loads of things recommended on Microsoft support forums and on You Tube for basically two days, and nothing really worked or worked only partially, because of opportunity cost and I do not want to work on this trying to fix computer like that as my time is valuable to me I did not want to spend another week trying to fix it and I decide to buy a copy of Windows 10 from Amazon and upgrade to Windows 10.

I am sick and tired because this upgrade was forced upon me and, because I just want to get on with work and get things done I had to surrender to Windows 10. Windows 10 for you to have a idea if you do not already know, even when you turn all the parameters off, after MS updates that you have no choice you have to do it the updates will turn your settings it on again.

There are other things that I would like to talk about Microsoft as well but I will try to keep this thread sort as it is getting a bit long now; Like I got a copy of Office 2013 now I am not interested in Office [Excel/VBA] anymore [prefer to learn and invest in Python and use within LibreOffice instead] and I am stuck with it call Microsoft support and they say it is not possible to “un-link” your copy of Office key from your account and give it to someone else, unbelievable.


Last edited by mrphr; December 29th, 2016 at 05:06 PM.
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  #2 (permalink)
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I built my PC at the end of 2015 with Windows 10 which was relatively new at the time. I haven't had any problems whatsoever, and this PC has been running pretty much 24/7 since (with a few exceptions).

For reference, I almost always run the following:
  • Trader Work Station
  • NinjaTrader 7 (with 9 tabs)
  • Powerpoint
  • Excel (3-7 spreadsheets)
  • Outlook
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  • MindManager
  • Google Chrome with 6-20 tabs
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  • Sometimes Evernote

I have not had any problems, not even once. However, this computer is strictly used for trading and trading-related stuff.

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  #3 (permalink)
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mrphr View Post
Hi there guys I do not post for ages but lately I have been reading posts here on and off, so let’s talk about Windows 7/10 and others things.

Are you guys running Windows 7 or 10 at the moment on your current setup?

Are you happy with you current version of Windows in a way that it does not give you any problems [like updates that slow you down] and you are happy with Microsoft policies and tactics specially regarding Windows 10? What are your experiences with Windows 10?

If your current platform/data provider offer you a solution to switch to Linux let’s say Debian or openSUSE [known for being stable distros, and I can confirm that as I am running openSUSE Leap 42.2 with GNOME extentions without problems] or even macOS which is Unix-Like would you still be using Windows on you current setup? [It appears Sierra Charts is serious working on a version of SC that is going to run natively on Linux and Macs]

Quote from their web site: “Sierra Chart is a stand-alone software program for Windows operating systems. We are working to add native support for Mac OS and Linux. This is an ongoing task.”
And there are quotes from them on their own forum and here about that as well that they are working on it. Now I do not use SC but as I heard and read good things about them so good impression and as long I am able to convert my custom studies to SC it would be a no-brainer switch for me.
It would be really nice to hear from @SierraChart

Do you guys think Windows is going to be the way forward for serious traders and other financial professionals, since financial exchanges around the would are running on Linux of course on the server side but still; CME, NYSE, NASDAQ, and London Stock Exchange which runs on SUSE Linux…

I think in my opinion there is a huge business opportunity here for platform/data feeds providers, developers/programmers etc where they could capitalize from those who are not happy with Microsoft monopoly, on a more retail side of trading as the exchanges and financial institutions already have their solutions. As long as they offer robust and stable solution on their end for retails traders.

I know that that are a lot of people including some and or even a lot of you of you guys are running Windows 7 and are reluctant to upgrade to Windows 10 for many reason

I am asking simply because I run into problems after I re-format my machine which I do every two years or so, in not only one copy of genuine MS Windows 7 but two copies, Windows 7 could not update, the updates was running forever like I tried for over 3 hours until I started to research and found out that that is in fact a well known problems with Windows 7 updates that keeps saying that is up dating but never updates. I colleague of mine @ABCTG who does some coding for me said that he thinks that they do that on purpose and the same thing happened to his machine but he had more luck than me and luckily was able to solve the problem.

I have tried loads of things recommended on Microsoft support forums and on You Tube for basically two days, and nothing really worked or worked only partially, because of opportunity cost and I do not want to work on this trying to fix computer like that as my time is valuable to me I did not want to spend another week trying to fix it and I decide to buy a copy of Windows 10 from Amazon and upgrade to Windows 10.
I am sick and tired because this upgrade was forced upon me and, because I just want to get on with work and get things done I had to surrender to Windows 10. Windows 10 for you to have a idea if you do not already know, even when you turn all the parameters off after MS updates that you have no choice you have to do it the updates will turn your settings it on again.

There are other things that I would like to talk about Microsoft as well but I will try to keep this thread sort as it is getting a bit long now; Like I got a copy of Office 2013 now I am not interested in Office [Excel/VBA] anymore [prefer to learn and invest in Python and use within LibreOffice instead] and I am stuck with it call Microsoft support and they say it is not possible to “un-link” your copy of Office key from your account and give it to someone else, unbelievable.

Since Nadella took on the reins at Microsoft, things have gone from bad to worse for Windows. The latest policy attempts to shove Windows 10 down everybody's throat have not gone down well (forgive the pun) for many people, including myself. Also, as you point out, the forced regular updates, as well as Windows 10 privacy intrusion mean I am likely to never upgrade to that system, which makes looking for an alternative a priority when Windows 7 goes completely out of support.

You're right that trading platforms have an opportunity with Linux and MacOS, I just hope people realize that and move towards that direction.

As for the update issues with Windows 7 an ex-colleague of mine theorised that Microsoft is sabotaging the update process on purpose to encourage people who have not yet upgraded to upgrade.

I have to say, I believe him.

The reason is not because he said it. It's because I regularly have updates issues myself and every time there's something different to fix. One month is a registry key, the next month is a folder clean-up, the month after something gets corrupted.... IT systems don't work this way: normally if a system stops working you identify the source of the problem, sort it out and the system resume its function. But you just don't have a myriad of problems with no apparent root cause.

I love the better stability and reliability of Linux and MacOS and would love to think that I will be able to move to either in the future.

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  #4 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
Since Nadella took on the reins at Microsoft, things have gone from bad to worse for Windows.

I believe Satya has done a remarkable job of re-energizing and re-focusing Microsoft, for the best.

Windows has simply moved to a rolling distribution type of model, something made popular by Linux years ago. I personally think it's great.

People in general dislike change. I don't know anyone that is reluctant to update to Windows 10, unless they have really old hardware, or don't have good backups of their data. In both cases, it is easy to solve. Maintaining modern hardware is a prerequisite of a trader.

Linux is unlikely to be a serious desktop alternative for regular professional use anytime in the next 10 years, or maybe ever. Don't misunderstand me, I am a huge fan of Linux and all of my servers run Linux. I've also tried switching to Linux for desktop use countless times in the last 20+ years, but it never works out for serious use. For a hobby, it can be fun to tinker, but at some point you just need it to work, and therefore need Windows.

Short version: Just install Windows 10 already. If you don't want to upgrade your old machine, just buy a new one.

Mike

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  #5 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Short version: Just install Windows 10 already. If you don't want to upgrade your old machine, just buy a new one.

Mike

To add in my cent or two, I have been running Windows 10 since early September 2015, on a five-year-old (or so) laptop, and have had very few problems. I simply ran the downloaded conversion from Windows 7; it took a while, but completed without incident, and I've had very little since.

The only issue I remember was with an audio driver for my headphones, and the fix was fairly easy (I just got a USB audio out gadget and bypassed the whole problem.... I think the age of my hardware was likely a part of that.)

I remember Windows 7 with affection, but not nostalgia. 10 has been solid, has given me no problems in getting used to it, and runs fine.

I completely agree with @Big Mike about the subscription model. My first version of Windows was Windows 3.0, in 1990 I believe, so I have been through a lot of versions and have done a lot of installs. I am very happy with the present way of updating and do not want to go back.

At some point, Windows 7 or 8 will no longer be supported, and other software will eventually not be written for it, so there's no future in not upgrading, unless you are willing to just go to the Mac or a Linux variant, and give up all the software that is Windows-only.

This may be worth a cent and a half, but it is my experience after more than a year of using 10.

Bob.


Last edited by bobwest; December 29th, 2016 at 07:26 PM.
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  #6 (permalink)
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@Big Mike

Do you really think that a operational system that spy on it users as Windows 10 is very well known for is really “re-energizing and re-focusing” where you disable all the known trackable features [apart from the hidden ones of course] then on the next update Windows 10 will enable back all your setting that you turn it off? Do you really like the idea of Microsoft spying on your intellectual property? To do God knows what, or even use against you and your family one day?

Watch this specially at 30:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1kGMCfb2xw

If people are no reluctant to switch to Windows 7 why is still Windows 7 is the mostly widely used Windows in the World at the moment even after 16 months after Windows 10 release even if the upgrade was “free” [it was free simply because MS wanted to use it users as a testers or guinea pigs] and Windows 10 hardware requirement is fairly the “same” for Windows 7 and identical to Windows 8.1 according to MS.

Not sure who you have been talking to, to came up with “I don't know anyone that is reluctant to update to Windows 10” which is quite ironic as comparing to not one but the mean of three sources in relation to total users [Windows 7, 36% x Windows 10, 22%]; And countless people who I talked to from senior management from the City of London to Phd in the Financial to traders and the typical pc home user everybody is very skeptical and reluctant.

“Linux is unlikely to be a serious desktop alternative for regular professional use anytime in the next 10 years, or maybe ever.” 10 years in the tech world is a life time in fact even not in the tech world 10 years is a life time to say such thing; However I do agree that the focus of most distros well mainly the serious one are on the server side of things, where a distro like Debian focus more towards systadmins but openSUSE not in they own worlds “the makers' choice for sysadmins, developers and desktop users” so they are clearly pushing Linux as a desktop use and really are.

I have been reading some of your post in the past do not know exactly from when and I saw that you like Ubuntu, well what Ubuntu does it is basically take the Debian stable and make it unstable and add spyware on the top and through their marketing makes people "buy" into it. So obivious it is not a serious desktop alternative… Now Linux apart, but then Macs would be a really serious alternative, I mean native without this virtualization thing.

As I said there is a huge business opportunity here for platform/data feeds providers, developers/programmers etc where they could capitalize from those who are not happy with Microsoft monopoly and spying tactics by making their products available to run nativelly on Mac and Linux.


Last edited by mrphr; December 30th, 2016 at 08:29 AM.
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  #7 (permalink)
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I know I will not live to see the day when linux becomes popular on corporate desktops - especially trader's desktops. Not going to happen for a long long time.

I run both Windows 10 and 7. The only reason I run Windows 7 is because the hardware I used for my latest build does not support Win 10 otherwise there is no reason to stay on Windows 7.

There are no forced updates in Win 10 - everything has a setting. The biggest problem facing Windows 10 right now is lack of documentation. For instance, the local group policy allows a number of changes you can make to how windows updates are handled. You need to have Win 10 Pro or Enterprise though. The 5th one down the list (Configure Automate Updates) is what you are looking for to get Windows 7 like options.



I know about the Windows Update in Win 7 hanging. This is what you need to follow exactly to fix it. I did this literally a week ago when I downgraded from Windows 10 to 7 for my latest build:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-update-problems-read-this-first/28147a5f-b0b0-480b-bed9-834a2da7a375.

Bottom line is that Windows is going to stay the default OS for desktops at trading firms for a while. My advice would be to stick to it.

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bobwest View Post
My first version of Windows was Windows 3.0, in 1990 I believe, so I have been through a lot of versions and have done a lot of installs.



Same here. Numerous install over the years. I started with Win 3.1 in 1993-94 I think.

Here's a video that will refresh those memories:


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  #9 (permalink)
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Who here remembers optimizing QEMM-386 to get that extra 100k of base RAM, so DesqView would run? That was my start...

I love Debian, dislike Ubuntu. I recommend Linux Mint for desktop use in a Linux environment. But Windows 10 on my primary workstations that just need to work 24/7. As of course, Debian on all my servers.

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Big Mike View Post
I believe Satya has done a remarkable job of re-energizing and re-focusing Microsoft, for the best.

Windows has simply moved to a rolling distribution type of model, something made popular by Linux years ago. I personally think it's great.

People in general dislike change. I don't know anyone that is reluctant to update to Windows 10, unless they have really old hardware, or don't have good backups of their data. In both cases, it is easy to solve. Maintaining modern hardware is a prerequisite of a trader.

Linux is unlikely to be a serious desktop alternative for regular professional use anytime in the next 10 years, or maybe ever. Don't misunderstand me, I am a huge fan of Linux and all of my servers run Linux. I've also tried switching to Linux for desktop use countless times in the last 20+ years, but it never works out for serious use. For a hobby, it can be fun to tinker, but at some point you just need it to work, and therefore need Windows.

Short version: Just install Windows 10 already. If you don't want to upgrade your old machine, just buy a new one.

Mike


Quoting 
I believe Satya has done a remarkable job of re-energizing and re-focusing Microsoft, for the best.

I don't disagree - That's why I specifically mentioned Windows. Microsoft is expanding in other directions and that's good. What they're doing for Business Intelligence for example is remarkable. I also think their Azure business model is promising.

But as for Windows, they keep lagging. Their lack of innovation means they always tend to copy others. That didn't work with Windows 8 and I believe they just copied Apple's model for the updates for Windows 10. The problem is, Microsoft is not Apple and they tend to screw up every time they copy someone else.


Quoting 
Windows has simply moved to a rolling distribution type of model, something made popular by Linux years ago.

In terms of rolling updates just like Linux, you can decide in Linux what to upgrade and what not to update. You are no longer afforded that luxury in Windows 10. This can potentially cripple systems with a bad update which poses a significant headache for sysadmins everywhere.



So no, I am not going to update to Windows 10 any time soon. But it's concerning that you mention the fact that Linux is not a 'serious' option at the moment for trading. I was hoping it was.

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