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Lets talk about Windows 7 and 10 and other things.
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Lets talk about Windows 7 and 10 and other things.

  #11 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Who here remembers optimizing QEMM-386 to get that extra 100k of base RAM, so DesqView would run? That was my start...

Those were the days....

I remember when the 386 was an exciting new chip. The first computer I had in my office was an IBM AT with a 286 and a hard drive! (It was a hand-me-down from a secretary, who had upgraded to a PS/2. Secretaries were the computer users then (they did the typing.) The other managers could not understand why I wanted a computer in my office anyway....)


xplorer View Post
But as for Windows, they keep lagging. Their lack of innovation means they always tend to copy others. That didn't work with Windows 8 and I believe they just copied Apple's model for the updates for Windows 10. The problem is, Microsoft is not Apple and they tend to screw up every time they copy someone else.

Windows started out as a copy of the Mac, and they have continued the tradition. The thing is, they just keep grinding away, making their small improvements and keeping it squarely in the middle of both the consumer and the business space. I would say, in the consumer space because it's in the business space: the computer you have at home probably will be like what you have at work, after all. Whether for good or ill, I think the huge installed base is what's keeping it there.

And bottom line, if you're not really into computers, if you're just a business (or trading) type, do you care? You just want to get your work done, so you go with what has the applications you need. For that matter, if you're writing applications, what do you write for? What most of your customers have. This sort of goes around and around.

Whether this is good or bad, it's kind of the present reality.

Bob.

Edit: actually, I think that first PC probably was a PC XT, with an 8088 chip. I remember the hard drive was an amazing 10 MB, and it was a big deal to even have one. Times do change.... I wonder how many who read this even know what I'm talking about....


Last edited by bobwest; December 30th, 2016 at 06:19 AM.
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  #12 (permalink)
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I think you guys are really underestimating those in the computer world who can not swallow Microsoft and while I can not quantify I know the number is extremely huge and growing, growing even exponentially.

Do not you think that would be amazing to see let’s say Sierra Chart for example as they said they are working to add native support for MacOS and Linux, and have all the choices and possibility in your hands to chose from and decide and not this like vendor lock-in sort of thing where you are stuck with one monopolist.

I know it would be amazing to see that, because not many providers are doing that right now the right way, a way that is viable and reliable for retail traders and they could definitely capitalize on that and grow revenue.


Last edited by mrphr; December 30th, 2016 at 08:21 AM.
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  #13 (permalink)
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Hulk View Post
I know about the Windows Update in Win 7 hanging. This is what you need to follow exactly to fix it. I did this literally a week ago when I downgraded from Windows 10 to 7 for my latest build:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-upd...0-480b-bed9-834a2da7a375.

Mate I tried that and I said I tried loads of things and did exactly as I was told to do, in fact there was one method that it did work but then again when I tried to install new recommended updates then it got stuck for another 3 hours and I gave up, because life is to short for that. Do you really think people want to expend their time dealing and fixing computer like that or their want to be productive, do some work and create stuff with it? Specially when you paid for it, and it meant to work [well or not so].


Big Mike View Post
I love Debian, dislike Ubuntu. I recommend Linux Mint for desktop use in a Linux environment. But Windows 10 on my primary workstations that just need to work 24/7. As of course, Debian on all my servers.

Yes Linux Mint is Ubuntu done right and they are doing a great job on pushing Linux as a desktop and their focus is very driven by their community and not a hidden corporate agenda however Linux Mint is just another Ubuntu makeover that comes with bugs. In my opinion the way to go with Linux Mint is LMDE witch is based on Debian not on Ubuntu, it is less mainstream and supported but still, however my distro of choice at the moment is openSUSE Leap.


Last edited by mrphr; December 30th, 2016 at 08:25 AM.
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  #14 (permalink)
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mrphr View Post
I think you guys are really underestimating those in the computer world who can not swallow Microsoft and while I can not quantify I know the number is extremely huge and growing.

Do not you think that would be amazing to to see let’s say Sierra Chart for example as they said they are working to add native support for MacOS and Linux, and have all the choices and possibility in your hands to chose from and decide and not this like vendor lock-in sort of thing where you are stuck with one monopolist.

I know it would be amazing to see that, because not many providers are doing that right now the right way, a way that is viable and reliable for retail traders and they could definitely capitalize on that and grow revenue.

I had a long thing written out, now deleted, which I think strayed beyond the topic. So I chopped it back some. Here's what I wanted to say:

Let me just say that you may well be right, but as of now it would be an uphill climb for Linux on the desktop, just because of the penetration Microsoft already has.

But yes, it would be cool if Sierra Chart or anyone else came out with versions for the Mac or Linux. Competition is good, and is what decides these things in the end.

Bob.

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  #15 (permalink)
 
 
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Indeed, market saturation and also regulatory compliance (some of which is the NSA etc.) in business are very steep hills. I've had a long IT career and at least until a couple of years ago was well versed in security, bank, police networks etc.

If security is really a concern. When asked what would it take to make any office network genuinely completely secure (OS or vendor) we used to half-jokingly reply "mechanical typewriters".

Not so surprising:

Kremlin security agency to buy typewriters 'to avoid leaks'.

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Rory View Post
If security is really a concern. When asked what would it take to make any office network genuinely completely secure (OS or vendor) we used to half-jokingly reply "mechanical typewriters".

Not so surprising:

Kremlin security agency to buy typewriters 'to avoid leaks'.



May be the wave of the future....

Bob.

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  #17 (permalink)
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@bobwest I was actually quoting you previous post that was edited...

Times has changed and people should wake up for new possibilities, do not believe me? One of my house mates is senior manager of one the biggest asset management/mutual fund in the World in the City of London and he said that Macs are everywhere inside the firm. [there are only few and/or certain specific application for Windows that do not run on Macs this days, of course games is a different history]

“no more than a passing familiarity with the Mac, so my technical knowledge is about zero on this question.” You do not need to have any familiarity and technical knowledge to deal with Macs it is just simple and it just works contrary to Windows that can blow in your face any moment and good luck trying to fix it because they do not offer support unless you pay extra $$$$$$$$$$, although Macs are not bullet proof but they do offer good free support.

I wound definitely not say the same for Linux but why not try it, like buy say a $100 machine from Ebay and install it it, is free and you can do whatever you please with it and see for yourself, you would be surprise.

As you pointed out about the average trade and business guy etc, the reason why they do not switch away from Windows is probably because the average trader or average business guy etc do not know any better and has never use anything else in is life that is why, and people tend to do not think outside of the box in fact most people do not even know there is a box.

As for now I use all the three main OS at the moment and this is my short impression for far.

[1] Mac for those who like stability, simplicity and a computer that just works, and good technical support that comes with it.

[2] Linux for the IT, geeks and nerd types as people have already stereotyped, but for those who likes “freedom” from proprietary stuff and vendor lock-in. [as you could go completely free and open source]

[3] Windows for those who likes or do not mind Microsoft spying on their lives and intellectual property and are happy to try to fix the computer when it explode on their face.


Last edited by mrphr; December 30th, 2016 at 01:02 PM.
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  #18 (permalink)
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mrphr View Post
@bobwest I was actually quoting you previous post that was edited...

Times has changed and people should wake up for new possibilities, do not believe me? One of my house mates is senior manager of one the biggest asset management/mutual fund in the World in the City of London and he said that Macs are everywhere inside the firm. [there are only few and/or certain specific application for Windows that do not run on Macs this days, of course games is a different history]

“no more than a passing familiarity with the Mac, so my technical knowledge is about zero on this question.” You do not need to have any familiarity and technical knowledge to deal with Macs it is just simple and it just works contrary to Windows that can blow in your face any moment and good luck trying to fix it because they do not offer support unless you pay extra $$$$$$$$$$, although Macs are not bullet proof but they do offer good free support.

I wound definitely not say the same for Linux but why not try it, like buy say a $100 machine from Ebay and install it it, is free and you can do whatever you please with it and see for yourself, you would be surprise.

As you pointed out about the average trade and business guy etc, the reason why they do not switch away from Windows is probably because the average trader or average business guy etc do not know any better and has never use anything else in is life that is why, and people tend to do not think outside of the box in fact most people do not even know there is a box.

As for now I use all the three main OS at the moment and this is my short impression for far.

[1] Mac for those who like stability, simplicity and a computer that just works, and good technical support that comes with it.

[2] Linux for the IT, geeks and nerd types as people have already stereotyped, but for those who likes “freedom” from proprietary stuff and vendor lock-in. [as you could go completely free and open source]

[3] Windows for those who likes or do do not mind Microsoft spying on their lives and intellectual property and are happy to try to fix the computer when it explode on their face.

I'm happy with your points, and as I said, I really have no stake in this game.

The only thing I would say pertains to point 3 -- While on both Windows 7 and now on Windows 10, I have spent no time at all -- zero -- on trying "to fix the computer when it explode on their face," except, as previously mentioned, for the issue I had with Windows 10 not recognizing my headphone jack, I assume due to a driver issue which I just sidestepped with a USB audio gadget.

I know you have had different experiences, but those are mine. Since Windows 7 in particular, not much to report, really. I never had the update issues you have, either.

Which in itself may not mean much, but there are other experiences, is all I mean.

As far as "Microsoft spying on their lives and intellectual property," I am going to pass on that one. I took a quick look at that a while back, decided I didn't feel that was really going on, and decided to not go there. I know some people feel otherwise. That's fine with me. In that case, then you shouldn't go to Windows 10, as you say. Simple enough.

Bob.

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  #19 (permalink)
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mrphr View Post
Times has changed and people should wake up for new possibilities, do not believe me?

But it's not that people have not woken up to new possibilities. Since the advent of mobile computing with tablets and smartphones, many people have stopped buying PCs altogether and mainly use a mobile device. So some trend are definitely changing.

Windows keeps controlling the PC market though because it's well established and so people are going to stick to what's already mainstream (smaller learning curve from Win7 to 8 or 10 than to a different system).

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Quoting 
As you pointed out about the average trade and business guy etc, the reason why they do not switch away from Windows is probably because the average trader or average business guy etc do not know any better and has never use anything else in is life that is why, and people tend to do not think outside of the box in fact most people do not even know there is a box.

I think people don't switch away because developers, as Bob said, would rather build apps for what people are likely to buy, which compounds Windows dominance. So the main problem is lack of availability on alternative platforms. If they coded my trading platform for Mac or Linux I'd switch tomorrow.


Quoting 
[3] Windows for those who likes or do do not mind Microsoft spying on their lives and intellectual property and are happy to try to fix the computer when it explode on their face.


I'd like to point out that Windows/Microsoft is not the only one 'spying'. I'd also like to say, I don't necessarily think they are spying per se. They just see that people's data is where the big money is now, in terms of where digital advertisement is going, so they're trying to capitalize on that, in the same way Facebook, Apple, Amazon and others are doing.

The problem I have with Windows 10 is, as your earlier video pointed out, they are being really nasty and do not care much for users concerns about privacy. All apps have default access to my caller list? No thank you.



bobwest View Post
I'm happy with your points, and as I said, I really have no stake in this game.

As far as "Microsoft spying on their lives and intellectual property," I am going to pass on that one. I took a quick look at that a while back, decided I didn't feel that was really going on, and decided to not go there. I know some people feel otherwise. That's fine with me. In that case, then you shouldn't go to Windows 10, as you say. Simple enough.

It all depends on how much you value your own privacy Bob. This TechRepublic article opens with

Windows 10 violates your privacy by default, here's how you can protect yourself
Upon installation, Windows 10 defaults to some pretty serious privacy invasions. Here are some steps you can take to keep your personal data private.


and, you know, it's not necessarily the big providers I am mainly worried about. A big hack of Facebook is probably a question of when, not if. What is going to happen when data for 1 billion+ users is going into the wrong hands, in the same way it already happened with Yahoo and LinkedIn?

Another even more shocking example: already today you do not need to hack anything. You can just browse thousands of people on FB and similar platforms who simply use the tool, with no appreciation for privacy settings and no idea they are being browsed. You can see all of their connections. How much effort does it take for some bot to take advantage of that and build maps of relationships for sale to the highest bidder?

But I digress. My point is, Windows 10 is simply capitalizing on all of the above, f**k user concerns. Can't blame Nadella to try to keep Microsoft in business!

Unfortunately their business in the 21st century is you, me and our information.


Last edited by xplorer; December 30th, 2016 at 04:40 PM. Reason: clarification
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Rory View Post
If security is really a concern. When asked what would it take to make any office network genuinely completely secure (OS or vendor) we used to half-jokingly reply "mechanical typewriters".

You say half-jokingly, but the harsh reality of security is (and has always been) nothing is 100% secure. Whenever there is a safe, there must be a way to open that safe. A key can be duplicated. A combination can be hacked.

All we can do is just assess what the risk is, and act accordingly.

Typewriters may not be a bad idea....

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