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4K monitors for trading


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4K monitors for trading

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  #1 (permalink)
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I've spent few hours in the forum reading every single entry on higher resolution monitors. Since 4K monitors are becoming common place and very affordable, I'd like to start a new thread on this topic. I looked at some of these and I love the 'retina' type effect on everything, very precise and sharp images.

I'm considering using 4K monitors driven by 1 AMD FirePro W600 or similar for my next trading desk. This is a 2015 entire year project since I upgrade my set up every 5 years I want to spend the right time researching and building something that I will be happy for a long time. Normally, I try to build something energy efficient, with good performance, and very quiet. Price is not that important as it's a business expense, so I'm not going crazy, but I'm not looking into saving few hundred dollars here and there. I'm more worried with a solid and high quality set up for everything.

So, if you have made this upgrade. Can you share your configuration (monitor, video card, etc.) and share your experiences? Would love to see some pictures also!

Thanks!

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I'm not a computer expert/geek by any measure but from my understanding of the 4k stuff it's just more or less a gimmick.
Conventional flat screens such as what your likely using now work great for what we do. I wouldn't be able to justify spending more on something I don't need.

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0 benefit for trading

Sent from my phone

Edit to clarify: 0 benefit of buying something like an Apple 27" display with 4K or 5K resolution, for trading. But if you buy say a 40 or 42 inch display, then 4K makes a lot of sense.

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Please, I'm looking for information from people that have made this upgrade, not personal opinions.

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dstrader View Post
Please, I'm looking for information from people that have made this upgrade, not personal opinions.

I too am considering adding a higher res monitor. If I do go forward, I will try just one and see if my experience justifies the cost. YMMV, so consider trying just one with your current setup (if your VC can handle the output).

Right now I am using 27" HD monitors and they are just a tad too big given their res. Not painful, just a tad bit annoying. I wonder if I can get by with less monitors but bigger 4k ones.

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That is exactly the main reason I'm looking into 4K. I also use 27" monitors, and although they are convenient, I see my eyes travelling far, too much during the day. I was thinking in having fewer monitors, maybe even just 2 with a bit larger screen size, since I can put 4 HDs in one 4K monitor.
My eyes are good, the size of the fonts doesn't bother me much since I'm already used to a 'retina' type display for my programming/writing/etc in my notebook, and I actually like the way the fonts (and everything in general) look. Of course, you can adjust the font size, and everything else for your convenience. I do think they are going to be mainstream in the near future, as 4k technology for monitors and VCs are just ramping up. Prices are coming down significantly also. I'm hoping some early adopters can share their experience so far.

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  #7 (permalink)
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I'm using Asus 32" PQ321Q 3840x2160 on a Mac Pro (showing 9 charts on each screen)
Before had Dell 30" 3011 2560x1600 (4 charts on each screen)

higher resolution -> more screen space -> more charts on each screen -> less movement from screen to screen -> easier trading

clearer picture, better for the eyes

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Yeah, i gotta say once the price comes down a bit so I'm not buying the top, I'll be buying better res for sure. With macular degeneration in mt right eye i really need the extra res...

Love to see how you all go here...

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Now that there is a 40" 4K monitor, it might make sense. Typically you see 4K at ridiculous sizes like 27-30", and at those sizes it requires DPI scaling, which makes it useless (no benefit, only headache) for trading.

But there is now the Philips BDM4065UC 40" 4K monitor, check the [H] thread:
Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread - [H]ard|Forum

Is anyone here using this monitor yet for trading?

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In that thread, someone mentioned a Seiki 40" SM40UNP which I had previously seen on Amazon:
[H]ard|Forum - View Single Post - Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread

But the specs are not quite as good on the connectivity side.

However, they did mention it might be matte, implying the Philips is glossy (which would be very bad).

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@jta3 are you still happy with your purchase of the Philips?

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@jta3 are you still happy with your purchase of the Philips?

Mike

Very happy. Can't live without it now. It have become natural to look at.

For my part it have help me getting the big picture for price action. It might take me several month before I can simplify what I am doing, and make a indicator there don't need a big screen. My purpose is to have a lot of data on screen, on one chart.

Only thing is reflection on screen if there are bright light in room. But not a problem for my part.

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Very happy. Can't live without it now. It have become natural to look at.

For my part it have help me getting the big picture for price action. It might take me several month before I can simplify what I am doing, and make a indicator there don't need a big screen. My purpose is to have a lot of data on screen, on one chart.

Only thing is reflection on screen if there are bright light in room. But not a problem for my part.

Yes I saw similar reviews saying the screen was too glossy for professional use. I'm still trying to figure out if I can cram two of these on my desk, side-by-side, and I am equally concerned about the border being right in the middle and center of my field of view.

I've tried to think back to the last time I had only two monitors, it was 15 years ago or more, and I don't really recall thinking the border in the center of my field of view was a problem.

However, another concern is people saying the viewing angles were not great. When you have two monitors, this would be greatly amplified especially at the edges/corners on the outside. I'm not watching movies, just looking at charts, so I think it would probably still be OK but not sure.

It is an extremely painful process to get this monitor, because it has to (a) be imported into the US [until Philips starts selling in US], then (b) imported into Ecuador. This raises the price of the monitor by over 50%, and it also makes returns/repairs/replacements impossible, so I have to really be positive in the decision.

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Yes I saw similar reviews saying the screen was too glossy for professional use. I'm still trying to figure out if I can cram two of these on my desk, side-by-side, and I am equally concerned about the border being right in the middle and center of my field of view.

I've tried to think back to the last time I had only two monitors, it was 15 years ago or more, and I don't really recall thinking the border in the center of my field of view was a problem.

However, another concern is people saying the viewing angles were not great. When you have two monitors, this would be greatly amplified especially at the edges/corners on the outside. I'm not watching movies, just looking at charts, so I think it would probably still be OK but not sure.

It is an extremely painful process to get this monitor, because it has to (a) be imported into the US [until Philips starts selling in US], then (b) imported into Ecuador. This raises the price of the monitor by over 50%, and it also makes returns/repairs/replacements impossible, so I have to really be positive in the decision.

Mike


I would look at what my need / specification is. If it is many small charts, then other screen can solve that. If there is a need for one big chart, then go for it. two 40" side by side is very big, even for me.
My own solution is 1 40" and 3 28". From time to time all of them is running. Most of the time it is 40" and one 28"

40" use for what I can measure is 42.7 Watt

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I would look at what my need / specification is. If it is many small charts, then other screen can solve that. If there is a need for one big chart, then go for it. two 40" side by side is very big, even for me.
My own solution is 1 40" and 3 28". From time to time all of them is running. Most of the time it is 40" and one 28"

40" use for what I can measure is 42.7 Watt

I'm too anal to have mis-matched monitors on my desk, I've done it in the past with just different manufacturers of the same size panel and couldn't stand it, so definitely couldn't handle two completely different sized panels.

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I'm too anal to have mis-matched monitors on my desk, I've done it in the past with just different manufacturers of the same size panel and couldn't stand it, so definitely couldn't handle two completely different sized panels.

Mike

Maybe there could be another way around.

I have try with a 55" 4K TV for the big picture, but run into problem with signal from Displayport to HDMI 2.0 60hz. I have seen some converter there say it can convert PC displayport to HDMI. But I don't trust that solution without seen it running in the real world. Anyway 4K TV are every where for some test.

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jta3 View Post
Maybe there could be another way around.

I have try with a 55" 4K TV for the big picture, but run into problem with signal from Displayport to HDMI 2.0 60hz. I have seen some converter there say it can convert PC displayport to HDMI. But I don't trust that solution without seen it running in the real world. Anyway 4K TV are every where for some test.

You don't want to use a TV. Especially anything much over a 40", as it will look terrible. If you are using it to watch a movie from 10-12 feet away then fine, but not for anything where you are sitting directly in front of it.

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You don't want to use a TV. Especially anything much over a 40", as it will look terrible. If you are using it to watch a movie from 10-12 feet away then fine, but not for anything where you are sitting directly in front of it.

Mike

A third possibility could be the very big screen in small size.


Only problem, you can't see your hands.

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@jta3, how deep is your desk? If you were to have two of these 40" side-by-side, angled in so you, center at desk, could see both, how deep do you think the desk would need to be? And how wide?

I'm trying to figure out the angle required so that you could see the content with just turning your neck, and not your whole body, from left to right. If you can help it would appreciated!

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@jta3, how deep is your desk? If you were to have two of these 40" side-by-side, angled in so you, center at desk, could see both, how deep do you think the desk would need to be? And how wide?

I'm trying to figure out the angle required so that you could see the content with just turning your neck, and not your whole body, from left to right. If you can help it would appreciated!

Mike

Hi Mike

I have make a rough drawing to estimate with a angle of 150 degree.
Measurement is Cm and In

My estimate for how deep your desk need to be "40 Minitor ASM Desk.gif"

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jta3 View Post
Hi Mike

I have make a rough drawing to estimate with a angle of 150 degree.
Measurement is Cm and In

My estimate for how deep your desk need to be "40 Minitor ASM Desk.gif"

Wow, thank you very much for your time on this. I will take a look after the close.

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@jta3, are you suggesting I need to be 70cm from the outer edge of the monitors (in my chair)?

That seems extreme. Right now my desk is roughly 150cm wide, and the outside monitors are at the extreme edges. I sit only maybe 10cm from the edge of the desk (my legs are under the desk).

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@jta3, are you suggesting I need to be 70cm from the outer edge of the monitors (in my chair)?

That seems extreme. Right now my desk is roughly 150cm wide, and the outside monitors are at the extreme edges. I sit only maybe 10cm from the edge of the desk (my legs are under the desk).

Mike

If I understood your question right that you don't need to turn your head to see both monitors. Then yes.

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Has the Philips BDM4065UC been released yet? I can't find it on newegg

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If I understood your question right that you don't need to turn your head to see both monitors. Then yes.

I don't mind turning my head, I have to do that even now (turn my head/neck). What I don't want is to have to literally turn my body because it is too far to the extreme side.

I will use your measurements at 150 degrees and see what I can come up with from here. The main thing I was having trouble with was the depth of the desk, you've helped with that.

Thank you.

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Has the Philips BDM4065UC been released yet? I can't find it on newegg

Philips hasn't released in the US yet, but in the UK/Europe yes.

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Philips hasn't released in the US yet, but in the UK/Europe yes.

Mike

Thanks Mike, are there plans to release in the US at some point? Any idea when it's coming out?

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Thanks Mike, are there plans to release in the US at some point? Any idea when it's coming out?

Yes, check the [H] links I provided earlier in the thread.

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Hmm or maybe I didn't post it, here it is

Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread - [H]ard|Forum

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Thanks Mike, I'll read through and see what I can find

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  #31 (permalink)
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Ok this it it...I want it now...in a 4 pack:
LG 34UC87M-B | LG USA

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  #32 (permalink)
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Devil Man View Post
Ok this it it...I want it now...in a 4 pack:
LG 34UC87M-B | LG USA

Might check here as well:



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  #33 (permalink)
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Staples has a great sale on the Dell u3415w- $499..

http://www.staples.com/Dell-UltraSharp-34-Ultrawide-Monitor-U3415W/product_1560485

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  #34 (permalink)
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sptrader View Post
Staples has a great sale on the Dell u3415w- $499..

Dell UltraSharp 34 Ultrawide Monitor - U3415W | Staples®

That is a great price. I really want a new monitor setup, but haven't decided what to do yet. Even at that price, I just am not sure.

I think anyone that wants to run two or less of those monitors would be well served to buy now. My problem is I am trying to run three of them, and not convinced about the total dimensions and viewing angles (being realistic).

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  #35 (permalink)
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Hi,

what would you guys prefer ?

2 of the Philips BDM4065 4k 40" monitors or 6 of full HD 24" Displays.

Any thoughts/ experience on this ?

Alex

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  #36 (permalink)
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lexbac View Post
Hi,

what would you guys prefer ?

2 of the Philips BDM4065 4k 40" monitors or 6 of full HD 24" Displays.

Any thoughts/ experience on this ?

Alex

Read the curved monitor thread. I would recommend against the Phillips at this point.

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  #37 (permalink)
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Just got the Philips, and it is really nice.

I was looking for a single screen with lots of content, and this fits the bill. I previously had tried a 50" 4K, and it was too much screen, so went back to two 32" side by side - I do not mind the bezel, as I usually consider the two screens separate content anyway.

Now the 40" is a nice size for the 4K pixels, and it does not have to be so far away to see properly.

The only down side, is the price is still coming down fast. I suspect you will be able to get similar monitors for a lot cheaper if you are willing to wait a bit.

Personally, I would not get two of these side by side.

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  #38 (permalink)
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I ordered three of the Philips for 676€ each from Amazon Germany. Can't see any benefit from the curved monitors as in comparison the text and numbers are clearer on the Philips with DP connection and they are way more expensive here (1199€ the Samsung ju 40") and (!!!) you would need separate video cards for each as they need HDMI connection to operate with 60Hz. I called the technical Support from EVGA and they confirmed that one GTX 960 4 GB with 3 display ports is enough for the three 4K Philips (no gaming, only charts). So a 12k setup with 4:4:4 panels and the smallest bezels you can get for 2200€ is not so bad I think....:-)

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  #39 (permalink)
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aslan View Post
Just got the Philips, and it is really nice.

I was looking for a single screen with lots of content, and this fits the bill. I previously had tried a 50" 4K, and it was too much screen, so went back to two 32" side by side - I do not mind the bezel, as I usually consider the two screens separate content anyway.

Now the 40" is a nice size for the 4K pixels, and it does not have to be so far away to see properly.

The only down side, is the price is still coming down fast. I suspect you will be able to get similar monitors for a lot cheaper if you are willing to wait a bit.

Personally, I would not get two of these side by side.

Just bought a LG Electronics 40UB8000 40-Inch 4K Ultra HD 60Hz Smart LED TV and loving it, still working on how to arrange my other monitors but here is a pic.

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  #40 (permalink)
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Hi Guys:

I recently got a extremely good deal on a Phillips BDM4065UC. A friends company bought 100 of them and I was able to piggy back my order into there's. Needless to say it wasn't my first choice, but I couldn't turn down the price.

So far so good. I'm getting use to and playing with the scaling to get the right settings for my eyes. Previously had 4x24 monitors along with a 32 IPS in Portrait mode. I'll follow up in the coming day's after I have sometime to get use to this monitor and give my full opinion.

Picture of a basic layout, still playing around with this to ensure I don't waste space.


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  #41 (permalink)
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NVIDIA's NVS 810 digital signage video card handles 8 x 4K displays

NVIDIA's NVS 810 digital signage video card handles 8 x 4K displays

dont believe anything you hear and only half of what you see

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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  #42 (permalink)
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madLyfe View Post
NVIDIA's NVS 810 digital signage video card handles 8 x 4K displays

NVIDIA's NVS 810 digital signage video card handles 8 x 4K displays

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

I already purchased an R9 Nano, but this could be an alternative... although I am not really sure why someone would buy this over the R9 Nano unless they specifically needed 5 to 8 monitors @ 30hz. At first glance, the R9 Nano is shorter, and far more powerful than this card. And same price.

But I couldn't find any benchmarks comparing the two head-to-head.

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  #43 (permalink)
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fwiw, I am in the market for a new monitor (currently using a 2007 era Dell 19" widescreen monitor) and started off doing research on 4K monitors. I came across this ultrawide monitor review where he makes a compelling argument against going 4K due to scaling issues in Windows. The review is a bit dated so there are likely newer improved models, but I have been threatening to order one of these ultrawides. Keeping in mind that the wife is going to be shaking her head that I paid this much for a monitor that will not improve work/trading performance.

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  #44 (permalink)
Sonoma, CA, USA
 
 
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Dell 27 Ultra HD 4K Monitor - P2715Q

"Your vision in extraordinary detail."

Expect beautiful 4K clarity on the 27” DellTM Ultra HD monitor with four times the resolution of Full HD, wide color coverage and reliable performance.

•Ultra HD 3840 x 2160 resolution: Over 8 million pixels with four times the resolution of Full HD, plus wide color coverage at 99% sRGB (deltaE <3).
•Seamless connection to other peripherals: Connect to laptops, tablets and other devices without compromising on picture quality.
•Reliable performance: Premium Panel Guarantee and minimal downtime with 3 years Advanced Exchange Service.

$506.00 at Amazon
Looks ilke a pretty good monitor....

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  #45 (permalink)
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baywolf View Post
fwiw, I am in the market for a new monitor (currently using a 2007 era Dell 19" widescreen monitor) and started off doing research on 4K monitors. I came across this ultrawide monitor review where he makes a compelling argument against going 4K due to scaling issues in Windows. The review is a bit dated so there are likely newer improved models, but I have been threatening to order one of these ultrawides. Keeping in mind that the wife is going to be shaking her head that I paid this much for a monitor that will not improve work/trading performance.

There are no scaling issues with Windows 10. I think since Windows 8.1, it's not an issue. With Windows 7, yes.

If you buy a 40 or 42" 4K monitor I think it's a great fit for trading (and I am using 40's). If you are doing something like a 27" then I think it's a waste for trading. Traders don't need density, we need resolution.

Mike

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  #46 (permalink)
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marin View Post
Dell 27 Ultra HD 4K Monitor - P2715Q

"Your vision in extraordinary detail."

Expect beautiful 4K clarity on the 27” DellTM Ultra HD monitor with four times the resolution of Full HD, wide color coverage and reliable performance.

•Ultra HD 3840 x 2160 resolution: Over 8 million pixels with four times the resolution of Full HD, plus wide color coverage at 99% sRGB (deltaE <3).
•Seamless connection to other peripherals: Connect to laptops, tablets and other devices without compromising on picture quality.
•Reliable performance: Premium Panel Guarantee and minimal downtime with 3 years Advanced Exchange Service.

$506.00 at Amazon
Looks ilke a pretty good monitor....

27" monitor is too small to be useful for trading, and 4K is a waste at that size because you'll have to scale everything so large to be able to read it. 40" is the sweet spot, not less.

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  #47 (permalink)
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has display port but not sure on the specs?


Seiki Pro SM40UNP 40.0-Inch 4K LED-Lit Monitor ? NeweggFlash.com

Seiki Pro SM40UNP 40.0-Inch 4K LED-Lit Monitor
•3840 x 2160 (4K) 5000:1 8ms(GTG) HDMI DVI D-Sub
$1,348.00- 50% OFF - $674.00 + Free Shipping

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  #48 (permalink)
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boze man View Post
has display port but not sure on the specs?


Seiki Pro SM40UNP 40.0-Inch 4K LED-Lit Monitor ? NeweggFlash.com

Seiki Pro SM40UNP 40.0-Inch 4K LED-Lit Monitor
•3840 x 2160 (4K) 5000:1 8ms(GTG) HDMI DVI D-Sub
$1,348.00- 50% OFF - $674.00 + Free Shipping

Check hardforum, lots of unhappy people with this one.

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  #49 (permalink)
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Hey guys I'm considering upgrading to a 4k 40" monitor I currently have a 17" laptop a 27" and a 24" I'd probably have everything I need on the 4k 40" and my laptop would pretty much become a desktop.

I've narrowed it down to a Samsung 6500 or 6700 series.

Samsung UN40JU6500 40" Class 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV - Newegg.com

Samsung UN40JU6700 40" Class Curved 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV - Newegg.com.

This is my laptop:


MSI Slim GS70 2OD-002US Intel Core i7-4700HQ 16GB Memory 1TB HDD 128GB x 2 SSD Super RAID0 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 765M 2GB 2 x Mini Displayport 1xHMDI Connect up to 3 Monitors 17.3" Gaming Laptop/Notebook Windows 8 Thinner than Razer Blade Pro (Upgraded to Windows 10)

Questions:

Is my system adequate to get 4k at 60hz? 4:4:4? any advantage on the curved 6700 Samsung series over the flat 6500 series?

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  #50 (permalink)
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Papertrade View Post
Hey guys I'm considering upgrading to a 4k 40" monitor I currently have a 17" laptop a 27" and a 24" I'd probably have everything I need on the 4k 40" and my laptop would pretty much become a desktop.

I've narrowed it down to a Samsung 6500 or 6700 series.

Samsung UN40JU6500 40" Class 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV - Newegg.com

Samsung UN40JU6700 40" Class Curved 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV - Newegg.com.

This is my laptop:


MSI Slim GS70 2OD-002US Intel Core i7-4700HQ 16GB Memory 1TB HDD 128GB x 2 SSD Super RAID0 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 765M 2GB 2 x Mini Displayport 1xHMDI Connect up to 3 Monitors 17.3" Gaming Laptop/Notebook Windows 8 Thinner than Razer Blade Pro (Upgraded to Windows 10)

Questions:

Is my system adequate to get 4k at 60hz? 4:4:4? any advantage on the curved 6700 Samsung series over the flat 6500 series?

I have this: Samsung UN40JU6700 Curved 40-Inch 4K

And wouldn't recommend it as a monitor if:
a) you want auto power on/off like a normal monitor, instead of manual using remote
b) you plan to have more than one of them connected

If neither of the above apply to you, then I would recommend the TV. It's excellent.

I, however, will relegate it to other duties (probably will become my Bloomberg office TV) and plan to replace it with (3) 4k 40" displayport capable monitors.

You won't get 4:4:4 @ 60hz with your card to best of my knowledge, but you can post here and ask them to be sure:
New Samsung 4k for everyone. - [H]ard|Forum

4:4:4 60hz is not really applicable to trading mind you, so it likely isn't a deal breaker. I wanted 60hz just because I prefer the better refresh rate on my eyes. If you are asking if your GPU can handle 4K for trading, the answer is yes according to the specs I found, it supports 3840x2160.

Mike

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  #51 (permalink)
Las vegas NV
 
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Big Mike View Post

4:4:4 60hz is not really applicable to trading mind you, so it likely isn't a deal breaker. I wanted 60hz just because I prefer the better refresh rate on my eyes.

Mike

Guess that's what I wanted to hear after all. Many thanks. I understand the other limitations You mentioned.

Think I'll get the TV/monitor now and sometime next year when I buy a desktop pc I'll make sure to get a Nvidia 960 or better to reap the most out of the monitor.

I don't plan to have any other monitor anytime soon. In the future if I decide to trade another instrument it will be for swing trading. As a matter of fact I don't know how You Guys can handle the info overload daytrading several instruments over multiple monitors. But if I understood correctly you're relegating your set up due to connectivity issues and maybe viewing issues (angle/bezel etc) but You recommend the TV as a single monitor?

I'm still undecided between the curved or flat panel. Do You think that'll matter in case I eventually decide to mount it on the wall?

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  #52 (permalink)
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The curve is subtle. It's cheap enough, go for it. One is never enough, get at least two! Three for me, personally.

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  #53 (permalink)
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Found that my laptop's HDMI port will cap resolution to 1920 and any Hdmi port before September 2014 won't be 2.0, 4k displays with displayport are very few https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_4K_monitors,_TVs_and_projectors didn't find anything affordable that I liked also it seems like laptops may not be compatible with some external higher resolution displays.

Minimum requirements seems to be an I5 desktop pc with a GTX 970 I'll just wait till I can build this properly.

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  #54 (permalink)
 
 
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Papertrade View Post
Found that my laptop's HDMI port will cap resolution to 1920

If you have Intel HD:

I use this trick for my 50inch 4k using an older HP ProBook 5330m I had no use for with only Intel HD 3000 graphics. Its a smidgen of complete width at 3840 (perfect though) and 24Hz has a little flicker (I'm the only one who sees this..fast eyes) but it works fine the 'big picture' trading screens.

Using the Intel Custom Resolution Utility (which may need to be downloaded if the driver is still OEM).
https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D70P0000068kXvSAI - Last post:

"It is possible to do UHD (3840x2160P) using this chip by being careful to stay under the maximum HDMI dot clock.
Using CustomModeApp:
Front Porch H=48 V=3
Back Porch H=80 V=23
Sync Width H=32 V=5
Active H=3840 V=2160
Scan Rate V=25

It relies on the screen supporting 24Hz refresh rates as most UHD screens will. 24Hz is used by Blue-ray in film mode.
Dot Clock for these HDMI settings is 221MHz which is below the hardware maximum of 225MHz
"

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  #55 (permalink)
kingston
 
 
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I use four 40 inch LCD

is it possible to replace them with one 4K 40 inch

thank you


Joe

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  #56 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
There are no scaling issues with Windows 10. I think since Windows 8.1, it's not an issue. With Windows 7, yes.

If you buy a 40 or 42" 4K monitor I think it's a great fit for trading (and I am using 40's). If you are doing something like a 27" then I think it's a waste for trading. Traders don't need density, we need resolution.

Mike

Have you posted a recent pic of your setup? If not, can we get a peek?

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  #57 (permalink)
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bob7123 View Post
Have you posted a recent pic of your setup? If not, can we get a peek?

No, the office and my workspace in this rent house are no good. I'll post plenty of pictures once the new house is completed, I post pictures there almost every day of the construction.

Mike

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  #58 (permalink)
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
 
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Big Mike View Post
No, the office and my workspace in this rent house are no good. I'll post plenty of pictures once the new house is completed, I post pictures there almost every day of the construction.

Mike

I was just wondering how you set up the monitors. Still 3 side by side in portrait mode? I think I saw a pic of yours like that once.

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  #59 (permalink)
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bob7123 View Post
I was just wondering how you set up the monitors. Still 3 side by side in portrait mode? I think I saw a pic of yours like that once.

Side by side, landscape not portrait. Portrait was six 24's side by side many years ago.

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  #60 (permalink)
Las vegas NV
 
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Rory View Post
If you have Intel HD:

I use this trick for my 50inch 4k using an older HP ProBook 5330m I had no use for with only Intel HD 3000 graphics. Its a smidgen of complete width at 3840 (perfect though) and 24Hz has a little flicker (I'm the only one who sees this..fast eyes) but it works fine the 'big picture' trading screens.

Using the Intel Custom Resolution Utility (which may need to be downloaded if the driver is still OEM).
https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D70P0000068kXvSAI - Last post:

"It is possible to do UHD (3840x2160P) using this chip by being careful to stay under the maximum HDMI dot clock.
Using CustomModeApp:
Front Porch H=48 V=3
Back Porch H=80 V=23
Sync Width H=32 V=5
Active H=3840 V=2160
Scan Rate V=25

It relies on the screen supporting 24Hz refresh rates as most UHD screens will. 24Hz is used by Blue-ray in film mode.
Dot Clock for these HDMI settings is 221MHz which is below the hardware maximum of 225MHz
"

Hey thanks Rory but there's always a little something that is particular to your system every time I pretend I'm a geek and tried advanced tweaks I end up getting burned and having to research for a week or so on how to fix the problems that I created in the first place lol.

Did a little research yesterday it seems like a decent I7 desktop with the 40" 4k can be done at about $2k I'll just wait a few months wife is on a Christmas shopping spree right now lol.

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Did a little research yesterday it seems like a decent I7 desktop with the 40" 4k can be done at about $2k I'll just wait a few months wife is on a Christmas shopping spree right now lol.

Haha, no worries. I asked my lady what she wanted for Christmas last week and three days later she presents me with plans to buy an old cinema to convert into an apartment. Not a cinema monitor.. an actual building.

40 inch should be decent and practical. People forget about eye strain if most of what your looking at is not on the same plane (constant refocusing for hours is painful).

I have good eyes, near 20/20 but I must say with the 50inch 4k, when I am close enough to comfortably read 10pt text, I'm about 2-3 feet away. This is fine but the edges of the screen are very much farther away than the middle and after 8 hours my eyes are in tatters from refocusing. A very curved OLED etc. screen should improve this however...

I mostly work with 4 USB powered Asus MB168b+ 15.4 *(1920x1080) displays. 3 portrait and one landscape + laptop. Perfect sweet spot for me. the 50 inch now on the wall and just used for "big picture" charts, news etc.

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Did a little research yesterday it seems like a decent I7 desktop with the 40" 4k can be done at about $2k

For 2k you can get more than decent, you can get the best. Check out my recent build, final components are near end of thread.



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40 inch should be decent and practical. People forget about eye strain if most of what your looking at is not on the same plane (constant refocusing for hours is painful).

I have good eyes, near 20/20 but I must say with the 50inch 4k, when I am close enough to comfortably read 10pt text, I'm about 2-3 feet away. This is fine but the edges of the screen are very much farther away than the middle and after 8 hours my eyes are in tatters from refocusing. A very curved OLED etc. screen should improve this however...

I mostly work with 4 USB powered Asus MB168b+ 15.4 *(1920x1080) displays. 3 portrait and one landscape + laptop. Perfect sweet spot for me. the 50 inch now on the wall and just used for "big picture" charts, news etc.



I did start with a 17" laptop and 2 x 16" USB displays when I was still thinking I could easily move around the house with that set up. In reality it proved not to be enough or practical.

I went to a local Fry's to see the displays up close and the 40" seems to be the sweet spot for 4k.

I use the 20/20/20 rule.. every 20 min I look at an object 20 ft away from the displays for 20seg that will give your eyes a break and prevent eye strain.

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For 2k you can get more than decent, you can get the best. Check out my recent build, final components are near end of thread.



Mike

I was including the monitor at that price.. but I like your thread good research You did there thanks for that.. it seems like I can get a lot more bang for the buck with a little $ extra. I particularly like the AMD card.. a lot better than the 980 GTX at same price. I'll definitely will be referring to your thread when I'm ready to build, I won't do it now cause knowing myself I'll end up buying everything on Paypal credit

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I trade 4 assets at the same time CL, BRN, 6E and DX

use 8 charts per asset on 4 different 40 inch LCD tv monitors

so thats 32 charts total on the ninja platform

is it possible to get all these charts on one 40 inch 4K

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I trade 4 assets at the same time CL, BRN, 6E and DX

use 8 charts per asset on 4 different 40 inch LCD tv monitors

so thats 32 charts total on the ninja platform

is it possible to get all these charts on one 40 inch 4K

Assuming your current 40 inch monitors are not 4K but instead 1920x1080, then your horizontal width is 1920x4 = 7680. Your height remains 1080.

With 4K, it would be 3840x2160.

So, with a single 4K monitor your vertical height would double, but your horizontal width but be cut in half.

Total pixels:
Current (assuming 4 1920x1080 monitors) is 8.3M pixels
Proposed (one 4K 3840x2160 monitor) is 8.3M pixels

They are identical in total pixel count.

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so the answer is yes

and 4K will replace all these multi monitor set ups

thank you

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How many traders are presently using 4K

as it seems this is the wave of the future

we are chartists and require the most pixels possible

thank you

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I don't have a 4k setup but I noticed that one of Amazon.com's Cyber Monday deals is for a 4k bundle. If anyone is currently in the market for one here is the link.

Samsung UN48JU6400 48-Inch 4K TV with Home Theater Bundle $599.00

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I don't have a 4k setup but I noticed that one of Amazon.com's Cyber Monday deals is for a 4k bundle. If anyone is currently in the market for one here is the link.

Samsung UN48JU6400 48-Inch 4K TV with Home Theater Bundle $599.00

That particular model won't give You UHHD colors. For Samsung needs to be 6500 series or better preferably 6700+

Old tactic They try to sell all their dogs on black Friday/Cyber Monday.

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Interesting thread. I've also been doing research about this lately. After several hours, I ended up ordering the Dell P2415Q 24' Ultra HD 4K Monitor. I paid $409.99 with no shipping or tax from B&H.

This model apparently works well with MacBooks (pro, retina, early 2015) as it supports the (mini) DisplayPorts. If it's good, I'll order another to have a fresh two external monitor setup. It's supposed to arrive by Monday 12/07/2015.

I'd post the link, but I'm still too new here.

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Samsung UN50JU6500 50" Class 4K UHD Smart LED TV UN50JU6500FXZA 887276075648 | eBay

$599 going fast

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TheBouncyTrader View Post
Interesting thread. I've also been doing research about this lately. After several hours, I ended up ordering the Dell P2415Q 24' Ultra HD 4K Monitor. I paid $409.99 with no shipping or tax from B&H.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I think that's a terrible decision. 4K is worthless for trading on a display any smaller than 40", because of the DPI scaling required.

The price is also ridiculous for a 24" monitor.

I like Dell, and have owned many. But in this case, bad decision in my opinion.

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I would discourage anything over 42" for use as a monitor. With the 40", you already have to move your head side-to-side. With three of them, the far left and far right are titled inward so it's not as distracting. But a single 50" display would be a deal breaker for me, I would hate it because you can't read what's on the edges of the screen.

Honestly, 40" 4K is the sweet spot. It's perfect. Smaller than 40 and you need scaling. Bigger than 40 and you can't see the edges.

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I would discourage anything over 42" for use as a monitor. With the 40", you already have to move your head side-to-side. With three of them, the far left and far right are titled inward so it's not as distracting. But a single 50" display would be a deal breaker for me, I would hate it because you can't read what's on the edges of the screen.

Honestly, 40" 4K is the sweet spot. It's perfect. Smaller than 40 and you need scaling. Bigger than 40 and you can't see the edges.

Mike

do you still think 4k 40in curved would be better than 4k 40in flat? i guess it mostly depends on the setup but lets just say 3 next to each other on the desk like so:


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do you still think 4k 40in curved would be better than 4k 40in flat? i guess it mostly depends on the setup but lets just say 3 next to each other on the desk like so:


The curve is subtle. I would say there is an advantage with the curve, whether it's one or three. But it's not going to make a big difference either way.

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madLyfe View Post
on the desk like so:

BTW, if I take your example literally it would never work. The monitors on the outside must be angled inward pretty substantially, and you must have a very deep desk to make it all work.

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BTW, if I take your example literally it would never work. The monitors on the outside must be angled inward pretty substantially, and you must have a very deep desk to make it all work.

Mike

for curved 40in or flat 40in? or both?

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for curved 40in or flat 40in? or both?

Both.

You cannot put them side-by-side. Not even two. It isn't usable, for the same reason that a single 50" isn't usable as a monitor.

Please understand, I am talking about using it as it should be used. Meaning 4K, no scaling, and everything readable. Obviously you can use a 120" projector if you want, as a monitor, but you'll be 20 feet away from it and will have to use ridiculous scaling which entirely defeats the purpose.

You'd be better off with a 24" 1920x1200 display than a 120" projector, when it comes to actually using charts and not watching movies.

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Both.

You cannot put them side-by-side. Not even two. It isn't usable, for the same reason that a single 50" isn't usable as a monitor.

Please understand, I am talking about using it as it should be used. Meaning 4K, no scaling, and everything readable. Obviously you can use a 120" projector if you want, as a monitor, but you'll be 20 feet away from it and will have to use ridiculous scaling which entirely defeats the purpose.

You'd be better off with a 24" 1920x1200 display than a 120" projector, when it comes to actually using charts and not watching movies.

Mike

i guess im just having a hard time wrapping my head around it. if the scaling is fine for 1 4k 40in screen right in front of you, why wouldnt it work for 1 on either side of it?

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i guess im just having a hard time wrapping my head around it. if the scaling is fine for 1 4k 40in screen right in front of you, why wouldnt it work for 1 on either side of it?

No scaling. Scaling is bad. But if you put them side-by-side without angling the outside monitors inward, you cannot see the edges of the screens on the outside.

How far away is the screen from your nose? For me today it's about 20 inches, mainly because of my desk. It would be better to be about 24 inches, for just a single monitor (directly in front of you).

Easiest way to understand is to take a piece of cardboard and make it the size of the monitor you want to buy. Then play around with it.

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No scaling. Scaling is bad. But if you put them side-by-side without angling the outside monitors inward, you cannot see the edges of the screens on the outside.

How far away is the screen from your nose? For me today it's about 20 inches, mainly because of my desk. It would be better to be about 24 inches, for just a single monitor (directly in front of you).

Easiest way to understand is to take a piece of cardboard and make it the size of the monitor you want to buy. Then play around with it.

Mike

oh sorry, yes there would be an angle to them. not flat. in the picture i posted i was just trying to show 3 in a horizontal line. but you wouldnt need to angle them inward with curved ones right?

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oh sorry, yes there would be an angle to them. not flat. in the picture i posted i was just trying to show 3 in a horizontal line. but you wouldnt need to angle them inward with curved ones right?

Yes. Angling them solves it, just keep in mind you need to have a deep desk. 30" is absolute minimum if you want to put three 40's "side-by-side" (angled). Personally, in the new house, I am wall mounting them with a nice mount I bought on Amazon that lets you get the angle and distance just right on the outside monitors, and creates slightly more usable desk space.

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Yes. Angling them solves it, just keep in mind you need to have a deep desk. 30" is absolute minimum if you want to put three 40's "side-by-side" (angled). Personally, in the new house, I am wall mounting them with a nice mount I bought on Amazon that lets you get the angle and distance just right on the outside monitors, and creates slightly more usable desk space.

Mike

i wonder which would give the best spacing, curved ones or sidexside angled? also if you were to put two curved ones on the top, but offset like the picture below, would it hold the same curve?


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i wonder which would give the best spacing, curved ones or sidexside angled? also if you were to put two curved ones on the top, but offset like the picture below, would it hold the same curve?


Having had six monitors in a configuration of 3 horizontal, 2 vertical -- I will never do it again. It's terrible. I even had special monitor stands, but it's simply impossible to have both a downward facing angle for the top row, and an inward facing angle for the outside monitors. Doing so creates gaps in the borders.

By having just one horizontal row, you don't have gaps at the borders.

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Having had six monitors in a configuration of 3 horizontal, 2 vertical -- I will never do it again. It's terrible. I even had special monitor stands, but it's simply impossible to have both a downward facing angle for the top row, and an inward facing angle for the outside monitors. Doing so creates gaps in the borders.

By having just one horizontal row, you don't have gaps at the borders.

Mike

sorry i was not clear again and i get what you are saying about that type of spacing. i should have said the depth spacing when using curved or angled. im guessing the curved ones, if following the natural curve, would take up more depth?

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sorry i was not clear again and i get what you are saying about that type of spacing. i should have said the depth spacing when using curved or angled. im guessing the curved ones, if following the natural curve, would take up more depth?

The difference is negligible. Less than one inch. Probably less than half an inch. And due to how it mounts on the stand, if you use a stand, I don't think it makes any difference at all in depth on the desk if measured from center of monitor.

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Just discussing this with a mate and took this shot for him.

I strongly agree with BM on 40 inch being the sweet spot, especially as the primary work display. This is a shot of my 10 month old 49 inch UHD with NT7 in the middle for reference (scaled to 1920x1080).

At 49 inches you can see two rows are 1 cm high, which is fine. The annoyance with this size is your head/eyes moving too much and you may need sunglasses when the screen is mostly white in the afternoons. Eyestrain..

At 40 I expect 1cm is closer to 3 rows? so about the same as a 15.4 inch display running at 1920x1080. perfect.

27 inch = microscopic...remember the movie Brazil with the magnifying lenses ?

One can adjust the default windows font DPI, might help but ugly and messy. Many apps are awful looking when 150% scaling is enabled.


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Big Mike View Post
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I think that's a terrible decision. 4K is worthless for trading on a display any smaller than 40", because of the DPI scaling required.

The price is also ridiculous for a 24" monitor.

I like Dell, and have owned many. But in this case, bad decision in my opinion.

Mike

Thanks for your opinion. I believe monitors above this size aren't useful as they're too big and I find that distracting. I've found this size works well for me. Forums are a great place for perspective.

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TheBouncyTrader View Post
Thanks for your opinion. I believe monitors above this size aren't useful as they're too big and I find that distracting. I've found this size works well for me. Forums are a great place for perspective.

OK. But as a trader, 4K isn't useful unless the size is 40", so that there is no DPI scaling. At 27" you'll have massive scaling, it's a waste of money and depending on your charting platform you may even have major problems (not all applications support scaling correctly).

You could have bought a normal 27" panel, and saved some cash.

Let us know how it turns out later.

Mike

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  #92 (permalink)
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I am very interested in this 4K thing now...thanks to this thread!

Is a special video card required, or will a standard Dell XPS-type laptop be ready to go with a 4K 40 inch?

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Boomer34 View Post
I am very interested in this 4K thing now...thanks to this thread!

Is a special video card required, or will a standard Dell XPS-type laptop be ready to go with a 4K 40 inch?

Depends how old the GPU is in your laptop. Find out the exact make/model of the GPU and post it here, or you can just do a google search for the specifications and see if it supports 3840x2160.

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I am currently looking at two possibilities. On of my hopes is to have a setup that I can take with me on planes when I travel, as I am a digital nomad. The 40 inch Philips BDM4065UC would be great, but would probably require a custom bag(the monitor is 35.6 x 20.2 x 3.5 inches.) The weight is great for the screen real estate at 18.7 pounds without the stand. The resolution is 3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz. The other option is using two 34" 2k monitors at 3440x1440 resolution. That would combine for 3440x2880. It would probably weigh more, but easier to pack and possibly carry on. Thoughts? My ultimate goal is to live in 4-5 places or countries a year.

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  #95 (permalink)
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I use a 55 inch 4K monitor that way the scaling size is the same as a 27 inch 1920x1080 monitor and I have the real estate of 4 27 inch monitors, therefore eliminating the need of having so many monitors.

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piratecannon View Post
The weight is great for the screen real estate at 18.7 pounds without the stand.

8.5 Kg + laptop(s) + weight of hard case for monitor + power extension cable + 5m network cable (useful) + .....

In Colombia one has to fly between cities so I'm used to lugging my kit around since I moved here.

Until they invent a battery powered laser short-throw 4k pocket projector this works really well for me. No way would I put my work equipment into the hold (will it be on the carousel?) so I travel with 2 light laptops (I use simultaneously) and usually three Asus MB168B+ 1920x1080 USB powered displays I got a year ago. All as hand luggage. They are amazing and run perfectly off USB 2 also. I own 4 of them.

However I see the new 169B+ is out with IPS screen and a LOT cheaper. Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: ASUS MB MB169B+ 15.6" Screen LED-Lit Monitor

I'd like the IPS display but the older TN screens are better than expected when I ordered them so I'm not bothered. Someone said the older 168+ TN display is brighter than the but I have the 168s set to 70% and that is more than enough.

A few aluminium brackets to clip around the edges hold them up + the Asus supplied cases and its perfect for me. I can just rotate to portrait in a second too. Edge of table though as one USB connector needs clearance but placing on a phone book works. With 2 USB screens per laptop I can run for about an hour on battery, again handy when Wifi or 4G is ok and you want to set up on an available table but can't string a power lead.


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  #97 (permalink)
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SatchFan View Post

Thanks! I may well try this with my LG 49" 4k TV.. from a quick inspection.. looks like it might work. That glass is annoying me. Its nearly a year old and I was considering replacing just to get away from the glare in my new temporary place.

I have ordered a couple of these USB3 > 4k HDMI adapters: Amazon.com: StarTech.com USB 3.0 to 4K HDMI External Multi Monitor Graphics Adapter (USB32HD4K): Computers & Accessories

I don't play games so I have no need for a super GPU. I use my Chicago based server cluster for heavy number-crunching. Should be a perfect solution to get 4k running properly off my two older laptops. I expect it will be fine even using USB2 (one laptop is) for Ninja. 4k full screen video playback would of course be clunky with USB2 however NT charts barely use any bandwidth by comparison with video.

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I got the Philips BDM4065 40" 4K monitor yesterday. Set it up with my existing Radeon R9 270 using DP 1.2 @60 Hz. The AMD Catalyst Control center software, up until last year, had a feature called HydraVision (HydraGrid) that enabled desktop management. It allowed creating virtual desktops so my goal was to create 4 virtual desktops so that I have an equivalent of the look and feel of 4 individual 1920x1080 monitors. I was surprised to find that HydraVision has been discontinued and has achieved EOL. I could install an older version and get HydraVision to work but I do not want to depend on something that has no more support from AMD. AMD has focused on Eyefinity since which is geared more towards gaming and combining many displays to work as one but there are no desktop management features in the newer versions of their software.

So, after spending the majority of the day researching, I found that NVIDIA's quadro and NVS lines come with their nView sortware that basically does what I am looking for. I will either buy the NVS 810 or 510 once I verify they can support DP 1.2 @ 60 Hz and try to set this up. My ultimate goal is to have 2 or possibly 3 of these monitors which basically would be an equivalent of having 8-12 virtual 1920x1080 desktops.

Will post pictures once its all setup.

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Large 4K monitors are an appealing idea but not for me. I sometimes trade by remotely logging into my desktop from the tablet. Remote desktop software like splashtop or teamviewer present the entire desktop on the tablet and they allow switching between the monitors. Even though the tablet is only 8" (for convenience) viewing the entire desktop on it is not bad at all. With a large 4K screen, I would be panning and zooming all the time.

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