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Sierra Chart crashes my computer

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  #1 (permalink)
 arnie 
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Hi.

I'm trying Sierra for the second time (10 versions have passed) but unfortunately things continue to have the same reaction. For some reason Sierra crashes my computer.

Sierra support says that it has to do with my computer, maybe the SSD or the RAM and despite I agree that the disk or the memory are able to create problems such as this, it's hard to believe that if my SSD or RAM have indeed some sort of a problem, only Sierra is able to detect it.

If I open Sierra, without a single chart, my computer won't crash but when charts are open then, from time to time it crashes my computer. Now we enter in the tricky part, Sierra only crashes my computer from time to time. I can open it with a couple of charts 5 times in a row and nothing happens and by the 6th time the computer crashes. Other times the first time I open it it crashes immediately.

First I thought maybe was the volume by price that was creating some memory overload, but the computer continues to crash even when the indicator is not in any chart.

I've uninstalled my anti-virus/firewall (ESET Internet Security) but had no success.

I'm able to have Multicharts opened with 20 charts, IRT opened with 6 charts, IB's TWS, Chrome, Outlook, iTunes, Excel, all opened at the same time and my computer runs smoothly.

I open Sierra, only Sierra and from time to time it crashes my computer. Does this sound that I'm having problem with my computer? Sure, it must have to do with something related to my computer since no other user complained something similar but it must be Sierra that has some process that is generating this, I think.

I'm running all in a i5 processor with 8GB of memory, a SSD and 4 Nvidia graphic cards.

I even reinstalled Windows7 (64 bit), installed new drivers and the problem continues...

I've been using IRT and despite considering it more advanced then Sierra, the agreement they have with MarketDelta in not distributing Footprint is really annoying. MarketDelta compared with Sierra is quite expensive. For us to have Footprint and Volume profile with MarketDelta it cost $149 a month whereas Sierra only charges $45. A 70% higher price for the same tools. Like I said before, I consider IRT/MD more advance since they offer a lot more options for each indicator but even so, I can't find how could that justifies a 70% higher price.

I would like to have access to footprint (still waiting for Multicharts to add that) and the only way would be using Sierra since I won't pay $149 for it nor will I work with Ninja.
I think the only way is to wait for Multicharts 9 and hope that they decide to add footprint since they are considering it at the moment.

Does anyone have some idea of what might be causing this problem with Sierra?

Regards.

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 FGBL07 
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From what you have written I conclude that you tried to solve this problem in cooperation with Sierrachart support?

I think that is the only way to go, everyone else will just be able to deliver more or less educated guesses.

I dimly remember reading some threads where users also reported that SC "crashed" their computer, looks like their SSDs caused some trouble.

BTW, what does crash mean? Blue Screen? Completely freezes? Crash is a bit vague.

Since you have a strong interest in using SC I can only recommend to get into close contact with Sierrachart support and solve the problem in cooperation with them. Else I recommend to just use what works for you.

Hope you will get along soon.

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 cory 
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run it on a separate cheap laptop it doesn't take much to run at all. I run it from a 2G memory stick.

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 ejtrader 
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arnie - Though you might have checked everything possible on your side - just wondering about the below:

- What is the latest sierra version you have tried with?
- Have you tried with latest Non .Net version of sierra to see if it behaves the same?
- What datafeed you are trying to use with Sierra?
- Are you launching both Sierra & datafeed provider in admin mode?
- What is your UAC setting for Windows 7?
- you can probably try using Sierra chart in sandboxie and see if it would cause any issues as it is likely to run in isolated mode.

Thanks.

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 arnie 
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SC support ran tests and their conclusion is that it's a computer problem, SSD or RAM. It cannot be related to SC itself since I'm the only user that is reporting such a problem.

So my only solution is to buy new RAM or buy a new SSD.
Like I said, my computer runs smoothly, without a single problem. Upgrading it just because of a single program...
I was thinking using Sierra because of cost reduction and of course the ability to have footprint charts. But I'm not in the mood to upgrade my computer, not at this moment. It's only 2 years old and if nothing wrong happens it will work another 2 years before I decide to upgrade it.

Run Sierra in my laptop was something that I already thought about but I would need to subscribe a second IQFeed service to feed it and again, I'm trying to reduce costs otherwise I would subscribe MarketDelta and my problems would end.

I think I'm going to follow FGBL07 advise. I stick to what is working for me, which is IRT and wait for Multicharts to add footprint charts.

Regards.

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 cory 
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Open Ecry data feed is free and it works well with SC, openecry also offer MD add-on and it was free but I don't know if it is still free or not.

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 arnie 
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ejtrader View Post
arnie - Though you might have checked everything possible on your side - just wondering about the below:

- What is the latest sierra version you have tried with?

The lastest one, 866 if I'm not mistaken

- Have you tried with latest Non .Net version of sierra to see if it behaves the same?

That's a good idea

- What datafeed you are trying to use with Sierra?

IQFeed

- Are you launching both Sierra & datafeed provider in admin mode?

No, I'm not

- What is your UAC setting for Windows 7?

Notify me only when programs try to make changes.....

- you can probably try using Sierra chart in sandboxie and see if it would cause any issues as it is likely to run in isolated mode.

But isn't that the point why Sierra runs inside its own folder. Doesn't that prevents it to interact with Windows files?

Thanks.

.

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 ejtrader 
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- you can probably try launching Sierra in admin mode and see if it behaves the same
- also you can try non .NET version of sierra and see if it works ( this should work fine with IQ feed).

thanks.

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 arnie 
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ejtrader View Post
- you can probably try launching Sierra in admin mode and see if it behaves the same
- also you can try non .NET version of sierra and see if it works ( this should work fine with IQ feed).

thanks.


Well, it seems that my computer has some sort of beef with Sierra

Non .NET version is a no go.
Running in admin mode also a no go.

By the way, when I say my computer crashes I'm referring to shut down and re-initiate by itself.

I'm not a technical guy but it's hard to believe that I'm having a SSD or a RAM problem that only Sierra is able to detect it and crashing my computer because of it. No other program is able to generate such reaction.

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 ejtrader 
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arnie - can't believe it's the hardware problem either.

- Would you please try to install sierra on a different folder than the default folder and see (if you still have energy to try it out).
- I am an IT person and can't really think of anything that would cause this issue only to Sierra to be frank as I have similar setup as well.

Thanks.

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 arnie 
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ejtrader View Post
arnie - can't believe it's the hardware problem either.

- Would you please try to install sierra on a different folder than the default folder and see (if you still have energy to try it out).
- I am an IT person and can't really think of anything that would cause this issue only to Sierra to be frank as I have similar setup as well.

Thanks.

I've already installed it using a different name (SierraChartNEW) and the problem is the same.
I still have online the 2 videos I've made for Sierra support, one showing a normal opening, with all chart uploading fine and another where my computer crashes. That video was made with version 840 if I'm not mistaken and with version 866 the reaction continues to be the same.

MOV_0043 - FernandoSantos's library

MOV_0052 - FernandoSantos's library

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 ejtrader 
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There are couple of other options I can think of just to see if the issue can be isolated(and you have energy to try it out):

Option 1(assuming you don't have any custom indicators):
- try not to open the old chartbooks
- create as many new charts as possible - with any combination and default indicators

Option 2:
- In case if this is by any chance to do with feed combination - can you try to use it with IB or other feed ( just to isolate the remote possibility of sierra/IQ combination problem)
- not using old chartbooks but with new charts.

Thanks.

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 arnie 
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ejtrader View Post
There are couple of other options I can think of just to see if the issue can be isolated(and you have energy to try it out):

Option 1(assuming you don't have any custom indicators):
- try not to open the old chartbooks
- create as many new charts as possible - with any combination and default indicators

Already done that. Always created new charts with different indicators. Number bars, volume by price, daily, 405 minutes, 1020 minutes, overnight, RTH, same result

Option 2:
- In case if this is by any chance to do with feed combination - can you try to use it with IB or other feed ( just to isolate the remote possibility of sierra/IQ combination problem)
- not using old chartbooks but with new charts.

This is something that I've never tried. Good idea. Let's see if I'm able to test this before the soccer game between Portugal and Germany for the European Championship

Thanks.

.

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 arnie 
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ejtrader View Post
There are couple of other options I can think of just to see if the issue can be isolated(and you have energy to try it out):

Option 2:
- In case if this is by any chance to do with feed combination - can you try to use it with IB or other feed ( just to isolate the remote possibility of sierra/IQ combination problem)
- not using old chartbooks but with new charts.

So I set up Sierra to receive data from IB and after opened it 10 times in a row, not once it crashed my computer. Can all this problem be associated with IQFeed client?

.

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 FGBL07 
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arnie View Post
So I set up Sierra to receive data from IB and after opened it 10 times in a row, not once it crashed my computer. Can all this problem be associated with IQFeed client?

I think you have to test a little bit more than 10 times. Check the time frame you use to store your IB data and compare to the settings for DTN. It may be a question of ticks vs 1 minute data.

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 arnie 
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FGBL07 View Post
I think you have to test a little bit more than 10 times. Check the time frame you use to store your IB data and compare to the settings for DTN. It may be a question of ticks vs 1 minute data.

True.

Both are storing tick data. The problem here is that I cannot download the same amount of data that I can from IQFeed so I will always be limited there.

Yes, maybe is just pure coincidence...

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 FGBL07 
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So how many days of tick data do you load in your charts? Same number for IB and DTN?

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 arnie 
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FGBL07 View Post
So how many days of tick data do you load in your charts? Same number for IB and DTN?

Hardly.

With IB I cannot go higher than 14 days. At least today, Saturday. I don't know during the week. I never used data from IB before. I always used eSignal and for the last year IQFeed.

With IQFeed I usually have 10 to 30 days of tick data. It depends of what I'm seeing.

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 FGBL07 
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arnie View Post
Hardly.

With IB I cannot go higher than 14 days. At least today, Saturday. I don't know during the week. I never used data from IB before. I always used eSignal and for the last year IQFeed.

With IQFeed I usually have 10 to 30 days of tick data. It depends of what I'm seeing.

30 days of tick data in one chart? Shouldn't stretch your system. You have enough RAM?

There is an option in Windows where you can turn off automatic restart after a problem occurred in windows. That is if you have a blue screen that blue screen will remain visible and you may read the info given there and submit to the experts.

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 arnie 
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FGBL07 View Post
30 days of tick data in one chart? Shouldn't stretch your system. You have enough RAM?


I've 8GB of RAM.

Like I said, I can have 20 charts opened in Multicharts and another 6 in IRT and a couple more programs opened and I cannot see a single hiccup from my computer. With all of this opened I still have 2 to 3 GB of free RAM.
I open Sierra, load a chartbook with half a dozen of charts and puff!!! my computer crashes.


There is an option in Windows where you can turn off automatic restart after a problem occurred in windows. That is if you have a blue screen that blue screen will remain visible and you may read the info given there and submit to the experts.

That's a good idea

.

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 sman73 
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Your machine is bugchecking/bluescreening. Disable the automatic restart on system failure as mentioned in the previous post. You will also want to configure the box for at least a kernel memory dump so that it will contain some useable information. This is set in the same place as disabling automatic restart on system failure. When your machine bugchecks again you should see a bluescreen with some codes. Check your System Event log on that next reboot to see what the bugcheck code is and that will give you a good place to start googling. My guess is that it is the video driver, since you say this happens when loading many charts. You can try updating to the latest video driver from ATI/Nvidia or go back to the Microsoft inbox video driver for your card, as these are typically the most stable.

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 arnie 
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sman73 View Post
Your machine is bugchecking/bluescreening. Disable the automatic restart on system failure as mentioned in the previous post. You will also want to configure the box for at least a kernel memory dump so that it will contain some useable information. This is set in the same place as disabling automatic restart on system failure. When your machine bugchecks again you should see a bluescreen with some codes. Check your System Event log on that next reboot to see what the bugcheck code is and that will give you a good place to start googling. My guess is that it is the video driver, since you say this happens when loading many charts. You can try updating to the latest video driver from ATI/Nvidia or go back to the Microsoft inbox video driver for your card, as these are typically the most stable.

Oddly enough, I did uncheck the Automatically restart but Windows restarts anyway. I cannot see any blue screen.
I have the most recent drivers for my 4 graphic cards (Nvidia Quadro NVS 290).




I have sent the Windows event log to Sierra support and they didn't find anything that would indicate a problem.

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 vegasfoster 
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arnie View Post
I'm not a technical guy but it's hard to believe that I'm having a SSD or a RAM problem that only Sierra is able to detect it and crashing my computer because of it. No other program is able to generate such reaction.

Computers are complicated things and in my experience it absolutely can be that only one program is crashing it. You get the wrong combination of hardware and software and bad things will happen.

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cusp
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ejtrader View Post
arnie - can't believe it's the hardware problem either.

- Would you please try to install sierra on a different folder than the default folder and see (if you still have energy to try it out).
- I am an IT person and can't really think of anything that would cause this issue only to Sierra to be frank as I have similar setup as well.

Thanks.


I'm an engineer who has constructed computers from the OS and board/chip design up so I can believe it could be a hardware issue.

It is however more likely to be a conflict between Sierra Chart and other software running on the computer. I also have win 7 x64, 8 G of ram, an SSD, HDD, multiple screens and no problems.

If I faced this problem I would do the obvious thing (which I don't see mention of in this thread).

Reformat your disk or ssd.
Reinstall windows 7 clean.
Install only the minimum software to support Sierra and your data vendors software.

Does it fail?

Yes. Then it is hardware.


No. Install all of the other software you want. But take an image of your C drive so that you can quickly get back to this step if a fault occurs. And install the most important things then wait for a few days before adding others a few at a time to find out where the problem is. Maybe store images along the way. The chances are that it won't come up again because Sierra and its microsoft dependencies are interacting with some issue in your earlier software install and removals.

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 arnie 
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cusp View Post
I'm an engineer who has constructed computers from the OS and board/chip design up so I can believe it could be a hardware issue.

It is however more likely to be a conflict between Sierra Chart and other software running on the computer. I also have win 7 x64, 8 G of ram, an SSD, HDD, multiple screens and no problems.

If I faced this problem I would do the obvious thing (which I don't see mention of in this thread).

Reformat your disk or ssd.
Reinstall windows 7 clean.
Install only the minimum software to support Sierra and your data vendors software.

Does it fail?

YES! it fails

That was one of the first things I've done.
Like I said, I have no problems with my system. All works fine. Only when I open Sierra and load the charts is when the "shit hit the fans" (please forgive my french).

Sierra support say that they can't do anything since it's not coming from them, it's a question of me testing and see what might be creating this conflict.

As advised to me. I even disabled 3 of my 4 graphic cards to see if that could be generating some conflict but unfortunately it crashed again.

I'll rest for now. It's obvious that it has something to do with some hardware which I'm not available at the moment to upgrade. Like I've been saying over and over, my system works fine, without a single glitch with my usual software, it's only Sierra that's generating this problem.
Apparently I'm not destined to use Sierra, at least not with this computer.

Thank you all for your help. It's nice to see people here on a Saturday helping each other.

Thanks.

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 Big Mike 
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Download Prime95 and run in Torture Test mode, select "custom" and change the max memory to be 90% of your system memory, change time to run to 5 minutes. Note your threads will be different on an i5 (no HT I think)



Free Software - GIMPS

Let it run for 4 hours.

This will establish your cpu and memory are stable.

From there, I would download VirtualBox and create a new VM. Don't install a single thing other than Sierra Chart inside the VM, and see if the problem persists.

If your machine is bugchecking, we really need the stop code. You might check the Event Viewer system logs for any helpful errors as well. If it is a hardware error, there may be precursor log entries.

Mike

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 Big Mike 
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arnie View Post
Like I said, I can have 20 charts opened in Multicharts and another 6 in IRT and a couple more programs opened and I cannot see a single hiccup from my computer. With all of this opened I still have 2 to 3 GB of free RAM.
I open Sierra, load a chartbook with half a dozen of charts and puff!!! my computer crashes.

Have you established that it is nothing specific to that exact chartbook?

Create a new chartbook, and create a simple chart with no indicators. Then duplicate the chart 20 times, and save the workbook. Make sure you are using the same lookback historical settings. Then exit and reload Sierra a few times, does it work?

You can also post your chartbook, I can load it here and confirm it loads fine. I assume that Sierra had you do this already and they were able to load it no problem?

Also please don't quote inline inside someone elses quote, because then it makes it hard to quote you when I reply.

Mike

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 arnie 
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Big Mike
Download Prime95 and run in Torture Test mode, select "custom" and change the max memory to be 90% of your system memory, change time to run to 5 minutes. Note your threads will be different on an i5 (no HT I think)

Free Software - GIMPS

Let it run for 4 hours.

This will establish your cpu and memory are stable.

From there, I would download VirtualBox and create a new VM. Don't install a single thing other than Sierra Chart inside the VM, and see if the problem persists.

If your machine is bugchecking, we really need the stop code. You might check the Event Viewer system logs for any helpful errors as well. If it is a hardware error, there may be precursor log entries.

Mike

I did run Memtest86 but no error was found. Never tested Prime95.

I actually never worked on a VM before. Years ago I was tempted to install one so I could "play" with Linux but time started to get short and I just "deleted" the idea from my mind. I was already spending too much time in front of the computer, I didn't need to add more work to it.
This problem with Sierra could give me the opportunity to work on a VM but to tell you the truth I'm a bit tired of testing stuff just to make Sierra work. The time I've spent testing stuff has already cost me a couple of hundreds bucks. By now it would have been cheaper to buy a new SSD and RAM.


Big Mike
Have you established that it is nothing specific to that exact chartbook?

Create a new chartbook, and create a simple chart with no indicators. Then duplicate the chart 20 times, and save the workbook. Make sure you are using the same lookback historical settings. Then exit and reload Sierra a few times, does it work?

You can also post your chartbook, I can load it here and confirm it loads fine. I assume that Sierra had you do this already and they were able to load it no problem?

Also please don't quote inline inside someone elses quote, because then it makes it hard to quote you when I reply.

Mike

I've lost count on how many chartbooks I've created.
Sierra support didn't find any problem with them.

If you want, here are 4 chartbooks for you to test.

Regards.

If I become half a percent smarter each year, I'll be a genius by the time I die
Attached Files
Register to download File Type: cht new_only bars.cht (72.9 KB, 4 views)
Register to download File Type: cht trading_view.cht (164.4 KB, 5 views)
Register to download File Type: cht trading screen.cht (237.4 KB, 5 views)
Register to download File Type: cht new.cht (121.5 KB, 4 views)
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I downloaded "trading view" (it has only 3 charts in it) and it worked fine.

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arnie View Post
By now it would have been cheaper to buy a new SSD and RAM.

Get the bugcheck codes, and you will be able to tell what piece of hardware is the problem from the stop code.

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Get the bugcheck codes, and you will be able to tell what piece of hardware is the problem from the stop code.

Mike

Are you talking about the Debugging Tools for Windows?

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Are you talking about the Debugging Tools for Windows?

No - you had said your computer reboots. You can disable that and that way you can see the STOP code on the BSOD. It will be like 0x<eight digit number>. You want to write down the last three or four digits of that number, and you can Google it and find out if it is memory or sata, or something else.

It might also be in your event viewer. Look for the first log entry after a system restart after bugcheck.

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No - you had said your computer reboots. You can disable that and that way you can see the STOP code on the BSOD. It will be like 0x<eight digit number>. You want to write down the last three or four digits of that number, and you can Google it and find out if it is memory or sata, or something else.

It might also be in your event viewer. Look for the first log entry after a system restart after bugcheck.

Mike

But I have the reboot disabled and the computer continues to reboot.

See what I wrote previously

I'm searching over the Event Viewer and there's a lot of things here.

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arnie View Post
But I have the reboot disabled and the computer continues to reboot.

See what I wrote previously

I'm searching over the Event Viewer and there's a lot of things here.

Duplicate the crash.

Once Windows restarts, open Event Viewer and find the first even that is timestamped after the reboot, and look forward from there. The system log should contain information about the unexpected shutdown.

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Big Mike View Post
Duplicate the crash.

Once Windows restarts, open Event Viewer and find the first even that is timestamped after the reboot, and look forward from there. The system log should contain information about the unexpected shutdown.

Mike


In the event log I have all errors but the only information I get is this:

 
Code
Log Name:      System
Source:        EventLog
Date:          10-06-2012 14:44:22
Event ID:      6008
Task Category: None
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      TheCenter
Description:
The previous system shutdown at 14:42:37 on ‎10-‎06-‎2012 was unexpected.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="EventLog" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="32768">6008</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2012-06-10T13:44:22.000000000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>26692</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>System</Channel>
    <Computer>TheCenter</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>14:42:37</Data>
    <Data>‎10-‎06-‎2012</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>242</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Binary>DC07060000000A000E002A0025005903DC07060000000A000D002A0025005903600900003C000000010000006009000000000000B00400000100000000000000</Binary>
  </EventData>
</Event>
I have no idea why since I disabled the "automatically restart" option, but I can't get any blue screen.

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 ktrader 
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arnie View Post
In the event log I have all errors but the only information I get is this:

 
Code
Log Name:      System
Source:        EventLog
Date:          10-06-2012 14:44:22
Event ID:      6008
Task Category: None
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      TheCenter
Description:
The previous system shutdown at 14:42:37 on ‎10-‎06-‎2012 was unexpected.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="EventLog" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="32768">6008</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2012-06-10T13:44:22.000000000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>26692</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>System</Channel>
    <Computer>TheCenter</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>14:42:37</Data>
    <Data>‎10-‎06-‎2012</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>242</Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Data>
    </Data>
    <Binary>DC07060000000A000E002A0025005903DC07060000000A000D002A0025005903600900003C000000010000006009000000000000B00400000100000000000000</Binary>
  </EventData>
</Event>
I have no idea why since I disabled the "automatically restart" option, but I can't get any blue screen.


Hi Arnie,

Try look in C:\Windows\WinSxS\

and find a directory starting with the string "x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_" and post the entire directory name. You will probably have multiple directy names matching , so if you post them all I can compare.

--ktrader

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Hi Arnie,

Try look in C:\Windows\WinSxS\

and find a directory starting with the string "x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_" and post the entire directory name. You will probably have multiple directy names matching , so if you post them all I can compare.

--ktrader

I have these:

x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_none_bcb86ed6ac711f91
x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.1_none_e163563597edeada
x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4926_none_508ed732bcbc0e5a
x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4940_none_50916076bcb9a742
x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.6161_none_50934f2ebcb7eb57

regards

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arnie View Post
I have these:

x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.21022.8_none_bcb86ed6ac711f91
x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.1_none_e163563597edeada
x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4926_none_508ed732bcbc0e5a
x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4940_none_50916076bcb9a742
x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.6161_none_50934f2ebcb7eb57

regards

Okay... in the 6161_ directory, theres 3 files msvcm90.dll, msvcp90.dll and msvcr90.dll, can you post the exact size of the 3? (by right clicking, and select properties and use the size in bytes)

--ktrader

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ktrader View Post
Okay... in the 6161_ directory, theres 3 files msvcm90.dll, msvcp90.dll and msvcr90.dll, can you post the exact size of the 3? (by right clicking, and select properties and use the size in bytes)

--ktrader

msvcm90.dll 23‐ 04‐ 2012 01:24 Application extens... 220 KB
msvcp90.dll 23‐ 04‐ 2012 01:24 Application extens... 557 KB
msvcr90.dll 23‐ 04‐ 2012 01:24 Application extens... 638 KB



Hey Mike, Snagit is awesome!!!

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msvcm90.dll 23‐ 04‐ 2012 01:24 Application extens... 220 KB
msvcp90.dll 23‐ 04‐ 2012 01:24 Application extens... 557 KB
msvcr90.dll 23‐ 04‐ 2012 01:24 Application extens... 638 KB



Hey Mike, Snagit is awesome!!!

Can you get the size in bytes, by right clicking, and select properties ?

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ktrader View Post
Can you get the size in bytes, by right clicking, and select properties ?

Sorry....

cm....225.280
cp....569.680
cr....653.136

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arnie View Post
Sorry....

cm....225.280
cp....569.680
cr....653.136

Looks correct, so thats not it - it was worth a shot...

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I've just remembered something... and I've just questioned SC support about it. Does Sierra uses Windows Search or Superfetch services?

According to some "specialists", these services should be disabled since they can reduce the life span of a SSD.

I've disabled them and none of the programs I use ever complained about it.

EDIT: Maybe this is one of the reasons I can't get any blue screen even with the option disabled?

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I would run prime95 torture test for now, to see if your system reboots.

I also assume that all Windows Updates have been applied?

Other than that, next step for me would be to create the VirtualBox VM.

If you just start buying parts, you have no guarantee you will solve the problem until you know what the problem actually is.

Mike

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I would run prime95 torture test for now, to see if your system reboots.

I also assume that all Windows Updates have been applied?

Other than that, next step for me would be to create the VirtualBox VM.

If you just start buying parts, you have no guarantee you will solve the problem until you know what the problem actually is.

Mike

So I installed Prime95, follow their instructions to connect to PrimeNet and as soon it started to test, the computer crashed. I tested once again, opening Prime95 and this time it immediately started a test and once again the computer crashed.

Does this means its a RAM issue?

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arnie View Post
So I installed Prime95, follow their instructions to connect to PrimeNet and as soon it started to test, the computer crashed. I tested once again, opening Prime95 and this time it immediately started a test and once again the computer crashed.

Does this means its a RAM issue?

BTW, no need for primenet, when you first start it just select torture test or whatever the option is.

Well, the crashing definitely makes it clear it's not a Sierra issue at least

It is also extremely unlikely to be SSD.

It leaves a few things:
a) Heat
b) Memory

What you can do is re-run the torture test option "Small FFT's" (top option). That tests pretty much no RAM. If it doesn't crash after say 30 minutes, then it's not heat (which is unlikely anyway given the scenario you've described).

That leaves memory.

You said you have 8GB, so probably it's either 2x4GB sticks, or 4x2GB sticks. Try taking all but one stick out of the system and re-run Prime95 "custom" test.

If it works, keep moving things around until you find the bad stick of memory. Then RMA it to the manufacturer, there should be a lifetime memory on it.

Mike

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Big Mike View Post

What you can do is re-run the torture test option "Small FFT's" (top option). That tests pretty much no RAM. If it doesn't crash after say 30 minutes, then it's not heat (which is unlikely anyway given the scenario you've described).

What to say that as soon the Small FFT's test began the computer crashed

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arnie View Post
What to say that as soon the Small FFT's test began the computer crashed

Well it could still be memory, but it also could mean a problem with your CPU. Are you sure the heatsink and fan are working properly? It could be heat related.

You can download RealTemp and check your temps:
Download Real Temp 3.70 | techPowerUp

No install needed, just run the executable. It will show your tjmax temp and your current temps for each core. At idle for an i5 the temps should be around 30 C probably, or less. Watch it closely when you run Prime95 again and see if it spikes. If it does, it indicates the heatsink and fan are not working correctly and need to be re-seated with new thermal paste, or replaced.

I am not sure of your exact model of i5 so not sure what your tjmax is, but RealTemp will report it. You should be at least 20 C under this temp at all times. When the chip hits this temp, it will shutdown to prevent damage.

Leave RealTemp running in the background while you do normal CPU tasks, and report back what your tjmax is and what your min and max temps were, and we can rule out heat.

Mike

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Big Mike View Post
Watch it closely when you run Prime95 again and see if it spikes. If it does, it indicates the heatsink and fan are not working correctly and need to be re-seated with new thermal paste, or replaced.

So here it's 30 minutes test.



I've tried to see a heat spike but as soon Prime95 starts testing the computer crashes immediately. I had no time to see if there's a spike or not.

By the temps in the image it seems thins are normal between 33 and 46ºC. This is what I've been seen since I assembled the computer.

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arnie View Post
So here it's 30 minutes test.



I've tried to see a heat spike but as soon Prime95 starts testing the computer crashes immediately. I had no time to see if there's a spike or not.

By the temps in the image it seems thins are normal between 33 and 46ºC. This is what I've been seen since I assembled the computer.

OK.

I would try moving down to 1 stick of memory at this point.

Mike

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Now things just went from bad to worst.

Removed 3 DIMM leaving just one on and the computer didn't initiate. Connected a 2nd DIMM, all went fine, run Prime95, spent 10 minutes testing, didn't crash the computer. Turned the computer off and on once again to do another test with those same 2 DIMM's, from that point on I just have a blue screen with a stop 0X0000007B. Already connected the 4 DIMM and I just can't seem to surpass the blue screen.

Damn, nothing like starting the week with a computer problem.

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 Big Mike 
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arnie View Post
Now things just went from bad to worst.

Removed 3 DIMM leaving just one on and the computer didn't initiate. Connected a 2nd DIMM, all went fine, run Prime95, spent 10 minutes testing, didn't crash the computer. Turned the computer off and on once again to do another test with those same 2 DIMM's, from that point on I just have a blue screen with a stop 0X0000007B. Already connected the 4 DIMM and I just can't seem to surpass the blue screen.

Damn, nothing like starting the week with a computer problem.

You sure you didn't knock loose a hard drive cable or power connector? Are you sure you didn't change anything in the BIOS, like changing the SATA controller from SATA mode to AHCI, or vice versa?

Is there an additional message on the BSOD screen, like a driver or .sys file? It says inaccessible boot device, right?

How To Fix STOP 0x0000007B Errors (INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE)

I don't understand how the memory could be related to this inaccessible boot device error. But it should be an easy fix, try the URL above or google for other examples. Basically if you boot off a USB stick with Windows installer on it, the repair option should fix it (no need to reinstall).

But the good news is, it sounds like you may have confirmed there was a memory problem and can send off the bad stick for replacement.

Mike

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 arnie 
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Big Mike View Post
You sure you didn't knock loose a hard drive cable or power connector? Are you sure you didn't change anything in the BIOS, like changing the SATA controller from SATA mode to AHCI, or vice versa?

Is there an additional message on the BSOD screen, like a driver or .sys file? It says inaccessible boot device, right?

How To Fix STOP 0x0000007B Errors (INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE)

I don't understand how the memory could be related to this inaccessible boot device error. But it should be an easy fix, try the URL above or google for other examples. Basically if you boot off a USB stick with Windows installer on it, the repair option should fix it (no need to reinstall).

But the good news is, it sounds like you may have confirmed there was a memory problem and can send off the bad stick for replacement.

Mike


That's the problem the only thing in the blue screen is

STOP:0x0000007B(0xFFFFF880009A9929, 0xFFFFFFFFC0000034,0x0000000000000,0x000000000000)

It does not say anything about inaccessible boot device.

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arnie View Post
That's the problem the only thing in the blue screen is

STOP:0x0000007B(0xFFFFF880009A9929, 0xFFFFFFFFC0000034,0x0000000000000,0x000000000000)

It does not say anything about inaccessible boot device.

No changes in the BIOS? AHCI vs SATA mode?

Maybe when you changed the memory, the BIOS reset to defaults and you need to change the SATA controller mode again.

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 arnie 
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No changes in the BIOS? AHCI vs SATA mode?

Maybe when you changed the memory, the BIOS reset to defaults and you need to change the SATA controller mode again.

Mike

I remember looking something regarding the SSD in the BIOS but can't remember if I actually changing it. I'm going to investigate.

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arnie View Post
I remember looking something regarding the SSD in the BIOS but can't remember if I actually changing it. I'm going to investigate.

I would check the SATA controller mode. If it is SATA, change to AHCI. If AHCI change to SATA, and see if that solves it.

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 arnie 
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I would check the SATA controller mode. If it is SATA, change to AHCI. If AHCI change to SATA, and see if that solves it.

Mike

It changed to IDE actually. Weird, although truth be told, I also didn't connected the DIMM to the corresponding slot when only one is used. Maybe my motherboard (Asus P7P55 WS) didn't like that and change to default, but then again, what does a RAM DIMM has to do with the sata connection...

So I initiated the Prime95 tests now to each DIMM. I don't need to wait the entire time that the test takes right? If something is wrong it will take noticed right at the beginning of the test, correct? At least that was happening yesterday.

I was forced to remove the fan from the CPU cooler since I couldn't reached that first DIMM. When will these guys build bigger motherboards with sufficient space between slots, although, I did buy a huge cooler


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 Big Mike 
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I'm a fan of Noctua as well.

As for the prime95 test, usually 15-30 minutes is enough to find a failure, but you should let it go a couple of hours if you can.

If it is actually a memory problem, you need to be sure to be running 'custom' and setting the memory usage to 90% of available memory.

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 arnie 
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Big Mike View Post
I'm a fan of Noctua as well.

As for the prime95 test, usually 15-30 minutes is enough to find a failure, but you should let it go a couple of hours if you can.

If it is actually a memory problem, you need to be sure to be running 'custom' and setting the memory usage to 90% of available memory.

Mike

Are these settings OK?



Actually, if each DIMM has 2GB then I need to set for 1800MB instead of those 1600 that Prime set automatically.

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So hardware it was.

These problems are hell to find. I once had to disconnect the power on and reset buttons from a case to a motherboard after weeks of problems. Annoying to have replaced the motherboard first. But memory drifting out of spec is notoriously annoying.

You may find that any 2 sticks work but all 4 won't or some combination. I have one computer running with 3 sticks (on win32 fortunately) because I didn't want to replace the ram and 4 sticks kills it.

You get the idea though ... in the end just buying 100% new ram may be simplest.

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 arnie 
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cusp View Post
So hardware it was.

These problems are hell to find. I once had to disconnect the power on and reset buttons from a case to a motherboard after weeks of problems. Annoying to have replaced the motherboard first. But memory drifting out of spec is notoriously annoying.

You may find that any 2 sticks work but all 4 won't or some combination. I have one computer running with 3 sticks (on win32 fortunately) because I didn't want to replace the ram and 4 sticks kills it.

You get the idea though ... in the end just buying 100% new ram may be simplest.


Still testing one DIMM, three to go...

A couple of years ago I had a problem similar to yours with my previous computer. For example, if DIMM A was in slot A and DIMM B was in slot B the computer didn't recognize that B DIMM, it would say that I only had 2GB, but if I reverse order, DIMM A to slot B and DIMM B to slot A that second DIMM would be recognized and I would have the 4GB that I was suppose to have. Why that happened I have no idea but it completely drained my energy trying to understand what was happening.

The same with Sierra. How could I accept that I had a memory problem when Multicharts and Investor RT are able to load more than 20 charts at the same time and the computer runs as usual and every time I would load charts using Sierra my computer crashed. For me this was obvious a Sierra problem.

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 arnie 
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... and what I was afraid of is turning to true, I'm testing the fourth DIMM now and none of the tests crashed the computer so far.
The test ran for one and a half hour for each DIMM.

Next stage will be testing 2 DIMM's together.

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 arnie 
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How can a guy understand this.

Prime95 didn't find any error testing each 2GB DIMM's. Opened Sierra using each DIMM, open3d 4 chartbooks at the same time, 20 charts, not once it crashed. Started to connect the DIMM's together, one by one, always testing Sierra, opening those 4 chartbooks, not once the computer crashed.

Now I'm testing again using Prime95, all 4 DIMM's connected, so far didn't crash.



What can a guy do in such situation? Seriously, what can we think in such situation?

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 Big Mike 
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arnie View Post
How can a guy understand this.

Prime95 didn't find any error testing each 2GB DIMM's. Opened Sierra using each DIMM, open3d 4 chartbooks at the same time, 20 charts, not once it crashed. Started to connect the DIMM's together, one by one, always testing Sierra, opening those 4 chartbooks, not once the computer crashed.

Now I'm testing again using Prime95, all 4 DIMM's connected, so far didn't crash.



What can a guy do in such situation? Seriously, what can we think in such situation?

Interesting.

It could have been a loose connection on one of the DIMMs, or just the ordering change somehow solved the issue.

I would definitely let the custom prime95 test run overnight with 4 DIMMs. Change the time from 15 minutes down to 5 minutes, so that it can complete a cycle in about 6 hours instead of 24.

But hey, problem solved! Now welcome back to using Sierra!

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 arnie 
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Just noticed something strange



3,99 GB usable?

Where are the other 4GB?

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 Big Mike 
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arnie View Post
Just noticed something strange



3,99 GB usable?

Where are the other 4GB?

Interesting.

Try this:

Run MSCONFIG

Check to see if selective start is selected.

If yes, go to the boot tab.

Click "Advanced Options".

Deselect the maximum memory option if it is selected.

Also, you can optionally select the number of processors to increase the boot speed.

Click on apply to apply the new settings.

Reboot the computer. Once the computer is rebooted, right click on "Computer" on your desktop and select properties. Installed memory should now show just the memory installed rather than the 2 components (installed and usable).

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 Big Mike 
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Also check here:

The usable memory may be less than the installed memory on Windows 7-based computers

Specifically, BIOS settings for Memory remapping.

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 arnie 
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Big Mike View Post
Interesting.

Try this:

Run MSCONFIG

Check to see if selective start is selected.

If yes, go to the boot tab.

Click "Advanced Options".

Deselect the maximum memory option if it is selected.

Also, you can optionally select the number of processors to increase the boot speed.

Click on apply to apply the new settings.

Reboot the computer. Once the computer is rebooted, right click on "Computer" on your desktop and select properties. Installed memory should now show just the memory installed rather than the 2 components (installed and usable).

Mike

Actually it continued the same.

Guess what! I reversed the DIMMs order and now I have the full 8GB available.

Go figure...

At least, so far, this order reverse isn't making Sierra crashing the computer again

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 Big Mike 
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arnie View Post
Actually it continued the same.

Guess what! I reversed the DIMMs order and now I have the full 8GB available.

Go figure...

At least, so far, this order reverse isn't making Sierra crashing the computer again

You have 4x2GB DIMMs, right? Are they all identical make/model?

You have 4 DIMM slots, or 8? If eight, there are blue slots on the board [probably] that you need to install in, and skip the black ones.

Mike

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 arnie 
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Big Mike View Post
You have 4x2GB DIMMs, right? Are they all identical make/model?

You have 4 DIMM slots, or 8? If eight, there are blue slots on the board [probably] that you need to install in, and skip the black ones.

Mike

I have 4 slots.

All DIMMs are the same model and make, GSKILL PC-3 10666 4GB ECO CL7 DDR3. The only different between them is the fact that initially when I assembled the computer I only had 4GB (2 DIMMs). I bought the other two 6 months later.

Never noticed that when Sierra is loading the charts it makes my CPU go to 100%. Multicharts and IRT rarely move my CPU above 50% when loading them.

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 Big Mike 
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arnie View Post
Never noticed that when Sierra is loading the charts it makes my CPU go to 100%. Multicharts and IRT rarely move my CPU above 50% when loading them.

Yup, Sierra is much better at multi-threading.

Well hopefully everything is solved now, in the end.

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 cory 
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So SC saw 8G but when it tried to use 8G it couldn't (now it does) and crashed the computer?

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 arnie 
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So SC saw 8G but when it tried to use 8G it couldn't (now it does) and crashed the computer?

Well, to tell you the truth I'm clueless at this point.

So the computer spent almost 11 hours testing the RAM using Prime95 and not a single error was found. Sierra is opening fine now. Just opened 4 chartbooks at the same time with more than 20 charts and everything loaded smoothly.

The only thing I did was remove all DIMMs from the slots, tested 1 by one, connect the 4 once again, most certainly changing the order and all seems to work fine now.

One of those things that it's impossible to explain

I want to thanks all you guys for helping me during these couple of days.
I hope I can retribute one day.

Regards

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