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 stephenszpak 
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(First, I've keep the title to this vague in case people in the future want
to discuss mp3's, CD's, transferring music to different devices, etc.)

This particular post is to any audiophiles out there that know about
the current technology.

Is it possible to create a Mp3 CD that has the sound quality of
regular CD?

According to wikipedia it isn't.
======================================================================

The sound quality of an MP3 CD is inferior to that of an audio CD, because MP3 compression is lossy.

MP3 CD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
======================================================================

The attachment shows various sampling rates and bit rates (this is from a new car owners manual).

Does anything there allow for CD perfect sound, or is it all compressed?

Is there a way to hear CD perfect sound in car without a generic CD?

I'm not an audiophile, so my questions probably aren't worded correctly, but I'd
appreciate any comments from anyone.

Thanks,

- Stephen

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 vvhg 
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Yep, MP3 quality is inferior to CD, but on the other hand CD is inferior to analogue recordings (at least theoretically).
At the end the question is do you hear the difference or is that all rather theoretical?
Personally I can't hear any quality difference between a CD and a (good) MP3, but then I am not a hardcore audiophile....my speakers cost less than my car and are still a lot better than my hearing

vvhg

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 CFuture 
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If you use Exact Audio Copy (EAC) in combination with Lame encoder you get very near to CD-quality when using at least 192kbps vbr (better a bit more)

The weaknesses of mp3 are especially in (punchy) highs like hihats but with the above tools and 224kbps vbr i notice no difference any more with a high end audio system and a semi professional soundstudio (if you like classic music i would choose a higher bitrate).

You also have to know that there are more weaknesses to optimal sound like bad digital/analog converters and integrated "on chip" amplifiers, dull speakers etc.

When using a laptop/pc for listening to music you also have to know that the native windows audio mixer codecs are not good because they resample, you better use asio4all in combination with an ASIO enabled Mediaplayer and a good mp3 audio decoder plugin like the MAD .

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 stephenszpak 
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vvhg View Post
Yep, MP3 quality is inferior to CD, but on the other hand CD is inferior to analogue recordings (at least theoretically).
At the end the question is do you hear the difference or is that all rather theoretical?
Personally I can't hear any quality difference between a CD and a (good) MP3, but then I am not a hardcore audiophile....my speakers cost less than my car and are still a lot better than my hearing

vvhg

But I might not be hearing something sometimes in an Mp3. It's the principle of the thing. (hee hee)

Apparently certain sounds/frequencies will be consistently lost if one always uses Mp3. Anyway, it's
unfortunate since there are lossless audio formats, but you need a computer (with some free software)
to play them.

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 vvhg 
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stephenszpak View Post
But I might not be hearing something sometimes in an Mp3. It's the principle of the thing. (hee hee)....

Well not in a direct CD/MP3 comparison

vvhg

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 stephenszpak 
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CFuture View Post
If you use Exact Audio Copy (EAC) in combination with Lame encoder you get very near to CD-quality when using at least 192kbps vbr (better a bit more)

The weaknesses of mp3 are especially in (punchy) highs like hihats but with the above tools and 224kbps vbr i notice no difference any more with a high end audio system and a semi professional soundstudio (if you like classic music i would choose a higher bitrate).

You also have to know that there are more weaknesses to optimal sound like bad digital/analog converters and integrated "on chip" amplifiers, dull speakers etc.

When using a laptop/pc for listening to music you also have to know that the native windows audio mixer codecs are not good because they resample, you better use asio4all in combination with an ASIO enabled Mediaplayer and a good mp3 audio decoder plugin like the MAD .

Can't really reply until later. I used to use Audacity. Do you have an opinion on that?

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 CFuture 
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I think Audacity is not ASIO enabled. Personally I use Winamp 2.91 with otachanīs asio output plugin and the mad plugin (you need to delete winampīs own mp3 decoder plugin). After installing asio4all you can choose it as output in the asio-out plugin in winamp. You can then disable resampling in asio4all and tweak the outputs of your soundcards used, latency settings if needed, will work on many computers.

This gives me the perfect audio quality together with an external DAC from Mindprint. You can hear the difference when comparing with other mediaplayers, they sound duller and washed out due to resampling in the windows audiomixer and bad mpeg decoders (even with internal DAC of your soundcard/laptop). There might be more ASIO enabled mediaplayers out there like foobar but i stick to what is working best for me since years.

Edit:
Just did a quick search and there is an asio enabled Audacity version:
https://error420.com/audacity/
Together with www.asio4all.com you should be able to get rid of that windows audio resampling, donīt know about the mpeg decoder quality of Audacity, though. Will try that one out this evening.

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 Ghostland 
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Besides, with mp3's you get none of these:

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 vvhg 
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Ghostland View Post
Besides, with mp3's you get none of these:

Wrong

vvhg

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 CFuture 
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Nice pieces of art, vinyl-gold.

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 stephenszpak 
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CFuture View Post
I think Audacity is not ASIO enabled. Personally I use Winamp 2.91 with otachanīs asio output plugin and the mad plugin (you need to delete winampīs own mp3 decoder plugin). After installing asio4all you can choose it as output in the asio-out plugin in winamp. You can then disable resampling in asio4all and tweak the outputs of your soundcards used, latency settings if needed, will work on many computers.

This gives me the perfect audio quality together with an external DAC from Mindprint. You can hear the difference when comparing with other mediaplayers, they sound duller and washed out due to resampling in the windows audiomixer and bad mpeg decoders (even with internal DAC of your soundcard/laptop). There might be more ASIO enabled mediaplayers out there like foobar but i stick to what is working best for me since years.

Edit:
Just did a quick search and there is an asio enabled Audacity version:
Audacity with ASIO support
Together with www.asio4all.com you should be able to get rid of that windows audio resampling, donīt know about the mpeg decoder quality of Audacity, though. Will try that one out this evening.

You really seem to know your stuff. Almost speaking a different language to me at this point.

So are you saying one can take a CD file (ie. WAV) and convert it to a extremely high fidelity Mp3, and then
put those onto a Mp3 CD?

Just buying a Mp3 song on-line will always result in only Mp3 quality, correct, no matter
what software is used to change it?

(Remember, this is for listening in a car, primarily. At home secondarily. My thought is that all my music
should be in just one format, especially going forwards.)

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 CFuture 
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Yes, bought mp3s are missing the full data of CDs and you donīt know how they were encoded. You canīt change quality to a higher level or restore the losses of boiled down digital information once encoded to mp3 (of course you can reduce bitrate further with more audible loss).

The tools i mentioned above will give you the currently best possible results with mp3ing your own CDs (and well made recordings with good equipment of your vinyls from .wav).

Yes, i think mp3s like 224kbit vbr and above are high fidelity and more than good enough to be listened to in a car with a good multimedia system. There is virtually no discoverable difference between CD and high quality mp3s (Lame Encoder at bitrates above 192kbps), even in an excellent studio environment.

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 Big Mike 
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FLAC if you wan't lossless from the source.

Mike

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 futuretrader 
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Once you've lost the data it's gone and can't be retrieved. So I use FLAC for home and convert to good mp3 or ogg vorbis for travel.

I agree that it makes no difference in a car or with the average speakers people use with computers, but I can tell mp3 from FLAC whenever I listen to a decent system. Quite often I've wondered why the music didn't sound as good, and checked the source to discover I was accidentally playing the lossy version rather than the FLAC.

Of course, a lot of music people listen to is so synthetic and has such a compressed dynamic range it hardly makes sense to compare it to live music anyway, but that's another story.

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 stephenszpak 
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Big Mike View Post
FLAC if you wan't lossless from the source.

Mike

This is interesting Mike.

========================================================

FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Codec, an audio format similar to MP3, but lossless, meaning that audio is compressed in FLAC without any loss in quality. This is similar to how Zip works, except with FLAC you will get much better compression because it is designed specifically for audio, and you can play back compressed FLAC files in your favorite player (or your car or home stereo, see supported devices) just like you would an MP3 file.

FLAC - Free Lossless Audio Codec

========================================================



There are products below for cars, (not checked out as yet) so I think one needs special equipment
to be added to a generic (even top of the line) car stereo, true?? Nothing is easy.

These are for car stereos:

URAL ConceRt CDD Project | ???????

PhatNoise

Supported devices:

FLAC - links



EXTRA LINKS BELOW NOT AS RELEVANT

More on FLAC here:

FLAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More here:

FLAC - documentation

More here:

FLAC - features

Comparison of audio formats here:

Comparison of audio formats - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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 stephenszpak 
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I searched on-line regarding FLAC support for head units and car stereos and such.

One individual suggested that because of greater memory/disk drive space coming up in
the future that WAV will be the standard(!).

A laptop in the car was suggested as well.

There are some comments below. I'm glad this isn't urgent because this is more technical
than I originally thought.

There are a number of audiophile forums out there. I've searched enough for now, but that
doesn't mean I've seen every comment that's important on the subject of FLAC.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You realize if you end up not liking it in FLAC or ALAC, you could just convert between the two? Ripping is the hardest part, after that, converting all of them between formats shouldn't take too long (it takes about 2-3 hours to convert 160GB of my FLAC to ALAC, and the size difference is negligible, we're talking less than 1GB of difference per every 100GB, but FLAC is ever so slightly smaller in general at level 8 compression). You can convert from FLAC to ALAC and vice versa a million times without losing data because they're both lossless. The only thing you have to watch out for is metadata support. Converting from FLAC to ALAC shouldn't change metadata (track information, order, album art) but if you convert to WAVE (also lossless) you will lose this metadata (but the music itself is still lossless!).

Also, for greatest compatibility: neither. ALAC works great if you have all Apple devices (iPods play it, Quicktime and iTunes recognize it), but nothing (besides Linux distros and maybe some Android devices) plays FLAC out of the box. Usually it's really easy to install the codec to play it, but if we're talking flat out compatibility, the only thing almost universally accepted it WAVE (which is lossless, but isn't compressed and doesn't have support for metadata like album art).


Is FLAC my best bet? - MacRumors Forums


After using the 448u for a bit, I'm very pleased. And it will play flac over the ipod USB cable although you have to trick it into thinking its playing Pandora first. If anyone needs a new car stereo, I'll endorse this one.


Car stereo capable of USB flac playback?

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 CFuture 
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Of course Flac is optimum, for car and portability i still need to use good quality mp3s because those devices donīt eat Flac....still..

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 Silver Dragon 
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stephenszpak View Post
I searched on-line regarding FLAC support for head units and car stereos and such.

One individual suggested that because of greater memory/disk drive space coming up in
the future that WAV will be the standard(!).

A laptop in the car was suggested as well.

There are some comments below. I'm glad this isn't urgent because this is more technical
than I originally thought.

There are a number of audiophile forums out there. I've searched enough for now, but that
doesn't mean I've seen every comment that's important on the subject of FLAC.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You realize if you end up not liking it in FLAC or ALAC, you could just convert between the two? Ripping is the hardest part, after that, converting all of them between formats shouldn't take too long (it takes about 2-3 hours to convert 160GB of my FLAC to ALAC, and the size difference is negligible, we're talking less than 1GB of difference per every 100GB, but FLAC is ever so slightly smaller in general at level 8 compression). You can convert from FLAC to ALAC and vice versa a million times without losing data because they're both lossless. The only thing you have to watch out for is metadata support. Converting from FLAC to ALAC shouldn't change metadata (track information, order, album art) but if you convert to WAVE (also lossless) you will lose this metadata (but the music itself is still lossless!).

Also, for greatest compatibility: neither. ALAC works great if you have all Apple devices (iPods play it, Quicktime and iTunes recognize it), but nothing (besides Linux distros and maybe some Android devices) plays FLAC out of the box. Usually it's really easy to install the codec to play it, but if we're talking flat out compatibility, the only thing almost universally accepted it WAVE (which is lossless, but isn't compressed and doesn't have support for metadata like album art).


Is FLAC my best bet? - MacRumors Forums


After using the 448u for a bit, I'm very pleased. And it will play flac over the ipod USB cable although you have to trick it into thinking its playing Pandora first. If anyone needs a new car stereo, I'll endorse this one.


Car stereo capable of USB flac playback?


Using FLAC is only benificial if you have the stereo equipment which will allow you to hear the difference. Put on a set of Apple ear buds and listen to FLAC vs MP3 and most people wouldnt be able to tell the difference. Now, put on a set of BOSE headphones listen. Here is where the difference can be heard.

The same with the car stereos. You can have the best audio file format combined with the best head unit in the world, but if you using stock speakers there is really no point.

I had a 10 speaker 2000 watt stereo system using Precision Power amps and a Alpine head unit with a Percision Power Parabolic equalizer. I could hear the artist breathing in the background. I went overboard on my stereo system, but at a minimum you need to go with a good set of component speakers to get the most out of your car stereo head unit. Otherwise you wont be able to hear detail in the audio you are listening too.

SD

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 stephenszpak 
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CFuture View Post
Of course Flac is optimum, for car and portability i still need to use good quality mp3s because those devices donīt eat Flac....still..

Apparently there are 18 (maybe 23?) lossless audio formats, not including WAV.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read that there is no lossless
format that can even double the content of WAV, per megabyte or whatever. It doesn't seem,
that if I've got this right, that there is any big savings of data storage by using a lossless file,
especially in these days with huge USB drives that one can carry on ones person.

Maybe it makes sense to scrap all lossless formats and just have WAV.

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 stephenszpak 
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Silver Dragon View Post
Using FLAC is only benificial if you have the stereo equipment which will allow you to hear the difference. Put on a set of Apple ear buds and listen to FLAC vs MP3 and most people wouldnt be able to tell the difference. Now, put on a set of BOSE headphones listen. Here is where the difference can be heard.

The same with the car stereos. You can have the best audio file format combined with the best head unit in the world, but if you using stock speakers there is really no point.

I had a 10 speaker 2000 watt stereo system using Precision Power amps and a Alpine head unit with a Percision Power Parabolic equalizer. I could hear the artist breathing in the background. I went overboard on my stereo system, but at a minimum you need to go with a good set of component speakers to get the most out of your car stereo head unit. Otherwise you wont be able to hear detail in the audio you are listening too.

SD

I used to have more time than now. I used to listen to music at the computer with my headphones
way back. It was a great sound. They say that if you want to know what the artist intended for you
to hear, that you should wear good headphones, because that is what they used at the studio when
they made and reviewed the music they made.

I know what you're saying regarding car stereos. Mine is subpar.

Buick seems to make an effort, but I suppose many of the better car makers also try.


2012 Buick LaCrosse

A Premium 3 model includes 18-inch chromed alloy wheels, a sport-tuned suspension, a 120-volt household-style power outlet and an 11-speaker Harman Kardon surround-sound audio system.

At this point it seems easier to just stick with WAV for everything. My computer will obviously play it, and CD
players (which will be around for many more years I assume) also will play WAV. Otherwise it gets a little
messy with 2 formats or more. Mp3 and WAV and let's say Apple iTunes store which uses lossy AAC. Which I must
say is odd since Apple has a lossless format, ALAC. (If I got all this right?)

Links if anyone has great interest regarding Apple:

iTunes Store - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apple Lossless - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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 stephenszpak 
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I have some free time so I'm looking at what's available these days
in new cars. This is mostly for my own education. Not asking for
comments unless someone wants to comment, which would be just fine.



Buick Verano, just released in 2011. 4 cylinder. Apparently under
$30,000 with every possible option taken. Only $ 26,700 well equiped.

Other Buicks are more expensive.

===============================================

a 7-inch touchscreen display, Bluetooth (phone and audio streaming), OnStar telematics and a six-speaker sound system with a CD player, satellite radio, a USB/iPod interface, an auxiliary audio jack and Buick's IntelliLink smartphone-connectivity system.

The Convenience Group 2 adds heated sideview mirrors, rear parking sensors, an auto-dimming rearview mirror and a power-adjustable driver seat. The Leather Group adds keyless ignition/entry, a heated steering wheel, heated front seats, leather upholstery and a nine-speaker Bose audio upgrade.

2012 Buick Verano
===============================================

Best video I've found describing the sound system of a Verano. 3 minutes long. There is much
more out there today than I knew (or imagined).


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 gomi 
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Before going the lossless way, check it for yourself. MP3 are much more standard and easier to carry around thant FLAC files.

Install foobar ABX system, tacke a CD, extract a wav file with EAC, convert it to both FLAC and 320 kbps MP3, and try to find out the difference between the 2 files, on your best equipment. Choose a track with high frequencies.



I'm pretty sure you won't be able to find any difference. Of course, this will be bad for your ego, because you would like to be able to distinguish the subtle differences of lossless, but I think 99% of the people won't hear the difference.

Of course, you may be part of the 1% lucky (and probably young) that are able to recognize the 2 formats. In that case, it will be useful to go the FLAC way.

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gomi View Post
Before going the lossless way, check it for yourself. MP3 are much more standard and easier to carry around thant FLAC files.

Install foobar ABX system, tacke a CD, extract a wav file with EAC, convert it to both FLAC and 320 kbps MP3, and try to find out the difference between the 2 files, on your best equipment. Choose a track with high frequencies.



I'm pretty sure you won't be able to find any difference. Of course, this will be bad for your ego, because you would like to be able to distinguish the subtle differences of lossless, but I think 99% of the people won't hear the difference.

Of course, you may be part of the 1% lucky (and probably young) that are able to recognize the 2 formats. In that case, it will be useful to go the FLAC way.

Thanks gomi. I really should. If I could hear the difference it would be with my headphones, not on the computer
with its two speakers and subwoofer.

If one thinks about a CD track, what would that be if it was a MP3? At the link below (don't bother to click on it,
it's just there if anyone wants to waste time)
someone said that a CD track would be >900 kbps.

You mention 320 kbps MP3. So...one just increases the bitrate until it becomes lossless (or extremely close)??

How high can one go, 640 kbps or 1280 kbps? (just wondering)

- Stephen








Sound Test: Difference between Wav vs MP3

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Ok, I took a wav file and converted it to Mp3 in Audacity. I remembered that all my
wav's are recorded at 192 kbps as far as I know. (Dang!). So that was a bust.

I don't think I actually own a CD made at a factory.

Got to buy a Superbus CD (hee hee).



On-line comments generally, but not always, say that at 320 kbps Mp3 is perfectly adequate.

Someone (at youtube) took a wav and a mp3 and inverted one and played them back simultaneously.
He said it showed how bad the mp3 is. I've included the link, but this seems more like an academic
exercise than anything useful. (If they were identical, obviously there would be total silence.)

Mp3 vs. WAV - Music Quality and Mp3 Artifacts - YouTube

========================================================================

Just a couple general questions below...

(Audacity does 320.) The options at bitrate are:

Preset Variable Average Constant

It was set to Constant so I didn't change it. Don't know if that's good or not.

The channel mode was Joint Stereo or Stereo

It was set to Joint Stereo so I didn't change it. Don't know if that's good or not.
========================================================================

Anyway, I'm probably wrong about not going to Mp3 320 kbps going forward. Someday someday someday
I'll have time time time to listen to music. (Back on-line in several days.)


Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Hi stephenszpak,


we did extensive tests on mp3 quality in a studio environment with Logic and a Yamaha digital mixer, and believe me, most audiophiles got buffled and sometimes angry when confronted with the test results. It is more a technical issue knowing the encoded data misses frequency information that are lost by the way ear and brain computes music anyway. Many audiophiles even donīt know where to spot mp3 artifacts that exist in lower bitrates.

So for your compatibility issues mp3 is a great way to go. I can only subscribe to what Gomi said.

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I could rant on during hours on audiophilia. Maybe because I'm an ancient (deceived ?) believer ;-)

"Audiophilia" is really like a religion, with people trying to convince you of crazy things ("I hear the difference when I change the direction of my signal cable") they can't prove, and that resists any scientific (or historical) evidence...
And when scientists prove that even with the best high-level measuring equipment, they are unable to find any evidence in the signal, only response they get is "you can't measure everything". So we're really in faith issues. But come on, if we can built neutrino ( that travel through atoms) detectors , I'm pretty sure we're able to analyze 20 kHz signals to their fullest extent.

I you have 1 hour to spare, watch the AES convention on audio myths :


If you're out of time, here are some good cue points where you have sound demos you can test by yourself :

5:28
Demonstrates that if you expect to hear something, you will (excellent satanic Stairway to Heaven demo)
This explains why, if you don't do careful blind testing, you will definitely here a difference between cables, even if there is none. And you will be 100% convinced about it.

32:30
Can you really hear jitter noise which is -100 db below signal level ?
Check what you noise sensitivity is , -30, -40, -50 db ?
So do you really need that $10k external DAC that eliminates jitter ?

46:18
Do you really need 24 bit audio ? How much bits are enough ?
Can you even recognize 12 bit audio ? 10 bit audio ? 9 bit audio ? 8 bit audio ?


Less fun but very important :
17:57 :In room response of standard room with reflective walls
18:58 : frequency response differences from 4 inch apart positions
19:37 : basic subwoofer frequency response in a room
See those huge -20 dB gaps ? Impact of the listening room on music fidelity is way, way, wayyyyy over the distorsion a basic amp...


To sum up : get a decent amp, try to acoustically treat your room (no flat walls, avoid 1st reflections), and you'll be good to go.

Of course note everyone can afford this


Or it might raise a WAF issue....

Personally, I use a cheapo Behringer DSP to cancel most important room modes in my room and improve bass response.

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Thanks CFuture and gomi.

I recorded a streaming audio clip of a song that was for sale at a certain
website. It was 30 seconds at 1411kbps according to the Properties.
I'm assuming that is what would
be on the CD if I purchased it, therefore a WAV file.

I took that file and changed it to Mp3 at 320kbps and 192kbps and played
them through my computer's speakers. I couldn't tell the difference. I then
reduced it to 40kbps and I heard a great difference indeed. I only did that
to confirm what I thought I was doing. No one uses 40kbps of course.

I'd like to try this with my headphones but there is a problem.

It seems I've never used my headphones with this new-ish computer.
I've played the original clip in Audacity and Windows Media player with my
headphones plugged in, but there is only music without the singing. With
my speakers there is music and singing. Which makes no sense to me.

Just went to Pandora internet radio. Problem is basically the same. Music
through speakers is fine. Music through headphones is messed up.

I would think this is a simple problem...
Any suggestions?

- Stephen

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 gomi 
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Check your sound settings in control panel, be sure output of the device is set to stereo, not 5.1 (Configure button on the list of sound devices)


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gomi View Post
Check your sound settings in control panel, be sure output of the device is set to stereo, not 5.1 (Configure button on the list of sound devices)


Yes, stereo. It could be my headphones I suppose. When I put them away a couple
years ago they were fine though.

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I tried everything I could think of at Control Panel. No soap.

What I've done is take the original CD quality wav file and made
it track #1 of a new CD. Took the MP3 of 320 and converted it to
a wav of track #2. The 192 to track #3 and the 40 to track #4.

Tomorrow I'll be over to a relative's house where I left my CD player
for that person to use. (The person hasn't been using it.) I should be
able to connect my headphones to that CD player, assuming the jack
fits on this Apollo 13 mission.

There is no real way to judge anything with 2 small Dell speakers and
the subwoofer here. Everything changes when I use my quality headphones.
====================================================

I did look at about 15 minutes of that video you posted. One comment I have
is that some people have extremely well developed hearing. I knew someone
years ago that commented that a certain piano tuner he knew did a better
job than another one. He was/is a piano player from way way back.

I'm not claiming he has super human powers of course, just that some people
seem to, when compared to the rest of us.

You wrote: But come on, if we can built neutrino ( that travel through atoms) detectors , I'm pretty sure we're able to analyze 20 kHz signals to their fullest extent.

Apparently they ( not us ) can cloak time.

The scientists created a lens of not just light, but time. Their method splits light, speeding up one part of light and slowing down another. It creates a gap and that gap is where an event is masked.

"You kind of create a hole in time where an event takes place," said study co-author Alexander Gaeta, director of Cornell's School of Applied and Engineering Physics. "You just don't know that anything ever happened."

Their time cloak lasts an incredibly tiny fraction of a fraction of a second. They hid an event for 40 trillionths of a second, according to a study appearing in Thursday's edition of the journal Nature.




Scientists figure out how to "cloak" time - CBS News

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Wouldn't attaching a DAC (Digital analog Convertor) to your CD player help the sound instead of taking a CD and trying to change it to different format?

Matt

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Wouldn't attaching a DAC (Digital analog Convertor) to your CD player help the sound instead of taking a CD and trying to change it to different format?

Matt

Don't follow.

I'm just trying to hear if I can tell the difference between store-bought CD quality sound,
320 kbps and 192 kbps. I've never done this before so maybe you're seeing a mistake in
my thinking/efforts?

Made the CD to try already, for Sunday.

I could in theory, re-assemble my old computer, which never had a problem regarding
playing through the headphones...but there's no way I'm going to do that.

- Stephen

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stephenszpak View Post
Don't follow.

I'm just trying to hear if I can tell the difference between store-bought CD quality sound,
320 kbps and 192 kbps. I've never done this before so maybe you're seeing a mistake in
my thinking/efforts?

Made the CD to try already, for Sunday.

I could in theory, re-assemble my old computer, which never had a problem regarding
playing through the headphones...but there's no way I'm going to do that.

- Stephen

I didn't think you are doing anything wrong, I just thought you are trying to get the best quality sound so I suggested a DAC that would connect to your CD player. Then you would connect your headset to it.

My MAC (that I play my CDs from) is connected to my amp, however between them I have the DAC that makes the sound of the CDs played and the internet radio a different experience in terms of sound. In fact, it is better that a high end CD player that I bought that is also connected to my amp. I do have a pair of hand made speakers though and that also helps the sound. This all DAC came around since I am also a real vinyl fan and I was enquiring If I could turn digital sound to analogue to achieve the same range of sound.

I am not an expert in this, but sometimes I can tell a big difference when the right equipment is used.

Pleasantly surprised that there are so many who have such interest in this.
I am looking forward to hear how others have hooked up their equipment.

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mattz View Post
I didn't think you are doing anything wrong, I just thought you are trying to get the best quality sound so I suggested a DAC that would connect to your CD player.

Oh no, not trying to get the best quality sound.

Originally I assumed that no Mp3 file would compare to a WAV file. Not so
sure anymore. So I'm trying to determine for myself just what the cutoff might
be regarding kbps.

Another thing that matters in this is the music itself. Some music doesn't sound
right at a kbps of a given number, another song sounds fine. Here people have
said that it's the high frequencies, but elsewhere a while back I read it was the
low frequencies that Mp3 can't reproduce well (which doesn't make any sense).

If anyone has a clip of song that Mp3 has a problem with I'd should be able to
check it out, assuming my CD player works, etc. etc. etc.

Also, I've never had a superduper sound system from the standpoint of speakers.
I think I have decent headphones, though I'm sure there are better ones out there by now.

Sony MDR-XD400

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Ok, problem solved, sort of!

I detached my speakers at the backpanel of the Dell and
plugged in my headphones. I can hear the music and sound as well.

Now I'll try to determine the sound quality matter.

(Might as well just edit this post.)

Took a generic rock song and reduced it from WAV to: mp3 320, 192, and
then to 160 kbps. They all sound the same.

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gomi View Post
Before going the lossless way, check it for yourself. MP3 are much more standard and easier to carry around thant FLAC files.

Install foobar ABX system, tacke a CD, extract a wav file with EAC, convert it to both FLAC and 320 kbps MP3, and try to find out the difference between the 2 files, on your best equipment.


I'm pretty sure you won't be able to find any difference.

Thanks gomi and others for the advice. I'm convinced (at the moment) that you're right. I've tried one clip of a
song at different bit rates and can't tell the difference. Maybe there will be 5 or just 2 songs
per 100 that I could tell, but that's not likely.

For some reason I always used to believe that Mp3 was junk.

Just a guess, but I think some people have listened to a Mp3 and
realized, quite correctly, that the music didn't sound right. My thought on that is that the music
was poorly performed/mixed at the studio and the format was blamed.

Was at Amazon checking out what they have. They have the most tracks to my knowledge, 18,000,000
Mp3s at 256.

Various online music stores compared:

Comparison of online music stores - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.

-John Lennon

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I'm pretty sure I'm going to subscribe to a music service. I've been using Pandora
internet radio. With internet radio there are a number of limitations.

What I want is:

1) Play songs on my desktop only. Any song. Twice in a row if I want. (Internet radio
will not allow users to choose songs, or play a song twice in a row, to my knowledge.)
2) No purchasing of songs needed or desired at this point.
3) up to $10 per/month is fine

I thought about buying songs but I think a music service should be good for now.

There are a number of them out there. Seriously considering MOG after reading about
them a few hours ago.

https://mog.com/#!what

https://mog.com/#!get




This is their in depth video about using MOG. It is several minutes long and I've only
included it in case someone is also thinking about a music service.

MOG Overview (Video) / Welcome Center / Knowledge Base - MOG Support




==============================================================

This CNET link (below) talks about various services out there.




Which music service should you use?

November 18, 2011


Which music service should you use? | Crave - CNET
===============================================================

So, if anyone wants to suggest or comment, that's fine.

- Stephen

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