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Do you set your time zone EST?


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Do you set your time zone EST?

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  #1 (permalink)
 Tasker_182 
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Hi,

If you live outside the Eastern Standard Time (Est) zone, do you set your computer and or software to reference EST?

I live in central US, (CST) and have recently begun posting charts and shtuff in my journal but all my times reference CST and I was wondering if that is the wrong way to do things. I thought I read somewhere (not sure where) that one fella set his PC to be EST even though he was PST. I didn't know if this is common or even standard practice, so thought i would ask.

I use Ninja, so if anyone has any specific suggestions or recommendation, please let me know.

Regards,

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 randyjb 
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I would suggest doing whatever suits you best, likely keeping your pc clock based in the time zone in which you live. If you decide to post charts here for explanations or examples you might be kind enough to indicate the time zone on which they are based and that should work out fine for everyone.

Happy Trading

Randy
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 Tasker_182 
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randyjb View Post
I would suggest doing whatever suits you best, likely keeping your pc clock based in the time zone in which you live. If you decide to post charts here for explanations or examples you might be kind enough to indicate the time zone on which they are based and that should work out fine for everyone.

Happy Trading


Yep, been doing that, thanks!

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  #4 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I keep my local time, for my sanity. But MultiCharts does have the option of charting in Exchange time for any instrument/chart, which can certainly be useful.

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  #5 (permalink)
 kbit 
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Same here all my charts are set to my time zone...tried setting to EST a long time ago but realized life is easier sticking to my local time.....

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  #6 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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I am not married to any specific program, so I have the system clock of my PC set in my local time.

For NinjaTrader there is no reason to use a different time zone then your local time zone. There are two points that I would like to mention

-> make sure that all your session templates use the time zone of the exchange, where the instrument displayed is traded
-> when importing data make sure that you select the time zone, which has been used beforehand to store that data

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  #7 (permalink)
 Silvester17 
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Fat Tails View Post

-> make sure that all your session templates use the time zone of the exchange, where the instrument displayed is traded

just curious, what's the reason to use the time zone of the exchange?

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  #8 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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Silvester17 View Post
just curious, what's the reason to use the time zone of the exchange?

Different daylight savings rules in the US, Europe and Asia.

If you do not use the time zone of the exchange, the session start times can be false. The US moves to summertime two weeks earlier than the European countries, and in autumn it moves back to wintertime one week later. Tokyo does not have summertime at all.

For the US based trader only trading US markets, not being aware that there is an outside world, this is not required. However, a US trader trading instruments on EUREX or LIFFE will quickly run into problems, if she/he uses a US session template.

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 Silvester17 
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Fat Tails View Post
Different daylight savings rules in the US, Europe and Asia.

If you do not use the time zone of the exchange, the session start times can be false. The US moves to summertime two weeks earlier than the European countries, and in autumn it moves back to wintertime one week later. Tokyo does not have summertime at all.

For the US based trader only trading US markets, not being aware that there is an outside world, this is not required. However, a US trader trading instruments on EUREX or LIFFE will quickly run into problems, if she/he uses a US session template.

that's what I thought your reasoning is. and it makes sense.

but since I'm a US based trader, only trading US markets I changed everything to my time zone. even though sometimes even I am aware of an outside world.

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  #10 (permalink)
 bibulous 
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I always use the timezone of the traded instrument. Way easier with daylight saving time..

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  #11 (permalink)
gbox1105
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i find it better to have your trading computor set to what ever session you trade via US, ASIA, LONDON

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  #12 (permalink)
 NLD1888 
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Hi,
It seems a problem (or maybe not) when NT7 is working with IB as data-feed.
I've tried to work with NT Support team but can't get it resolved.
My local time zone is UTC+8.

When I plot the chart, I noticed that the time on the chart is using local PC clock time.
For equities, the chart shows 9.30pm (today) to 4am (the next day).
I'm using session template "US Equities RTH" with "The sessions are based on the following time zone ..." set as UTC-5.
I noticed that the data retrieved from IB stored in the Historical Data Manager also used the local PC clock time.
I want both the chart & data collected from IB to show exact EST. Can I do it?
I've worked with NT support team & their solution is to set my local PC clock time to EST.
Please advise if there is another way to do it without touching my local PC clock time.
I'm concerned whether the data loaded from IB using local PC clock time will have any implication when I use them for backtesting, strategy development, etc. Hence, I would like the data with exchange time captured.

I've tried the following options & they didn't work too.

1. I've copied the "US Equities RTH" template & changed the time zone to UTC+8.
Result: Chart not populated with any bar.

2. I've copied the "US Equities RTF" template & changed the 5 trading days as
Mon 9pm to Tue 4am
Tue 9pm to Wed 4am
:
Fri 9pm to Sat 4am
Time zone set to UTC-5 (EST)
Result: Chart not populated with any bar.

3. Same as (2) except time zone set to UTC+8
Result: Chart shows local PC clock time again. The data loaded in Historical Data Manager is also using local PC clock time again.

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 Big Mike 
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For the past year or so I've been using Sierra Chart exclusively, and I plot all charts in Exchange time. Much easier this way.

You should make sure there is already a feature request for this capability in NT8:


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 Fat Tails 
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NLD1888 View Post
Hi,
It seems a problem (or maybe not) when NT7 is working with IB as data-feed.
I've tried to work with NT Support team but can't get it resolved.
My local time zone is UTC+8.

When I plot the chart, I noticed that the time on the chart is using local PC clock time.

NinjaTrader always shows local time.


NLD1888 View Post
For equities, the chart shows 9.30pm (today) to 4am (the next day).
I'm using session template "US Equities RTH" with "The sessions are based on the following time zone ..." set as UTC-5.

This is correct. The US currently has summertime, so the difference with UniversalTime is reduced to 4 hours. As your UTC + 8, the total difference between US and you is 12 hours, and the US stock market opens at 9:30 PM your time.


NLD1888 View Post
I noticed that the data retrieved from IB stored in the Historical Data Manager also used the local PC clock time.

NinjaTrader always stores data by using timestamps of your local time. This is in fact a very bad choice, for several reasons

-> in case that your local time switches from summertime to wintertime and the exchange time does not, you will get two bars with the same timestamp
-> you cannot share your data easily with somebody located in a different time zone

But things are as they are, so we have to accept it.


NLD1888 View Post
I want both the chart & data collected from IB to show exact EST. Can I do it?
I've worked with NT support team & their solution is to set my local PC clock time to EST.
Please advise if there is another way to do it without touching my local PC clock time.

The only way you can do that with NinjaTrader is to set your system clock to EST.


NLD1888 View Post
I'm concerned whether the data loaded from IB using local PC clock time will have any implication when I use them for backtesting, strategy development, etc. Hence, I would like the data with exchange time captured.

If you use local time, there will be now implication on backtesting and strategy development. However, if you use time filters, you would need to use exchange time and then convert it to local time. This is not difficult to do with NinjaScript, see below.


NLD1888 View Post
I've tried the following options & they didn't work too.

1. I've copied the "US Equities RTH" template & changed the time zone to UTC+8.
Result: Chart not populated with any bar.

2. I've copied the "US Equities RTF" template & changed the 5 trading days as
Mon 9pm to Tue 4am
Tue 9pm to Wed 4am
:
Fri 9pm to Sat 4am
Time zone set to UTC-5 (EST)
Result: Chart not populated with any bar.

3. Same as (2) except time zone set to UTC+8
Result: Chart shows local PC clock time again. The data loaded in Historical Data Manager is also using local PC clock time again.

Do not play around with templates, in the end you will make things worse. The template ALWAYS AND WITH NO EXCEPTION needs to use exchange time. If you do not follow this rule you will run into daylight savings and other issues. Never use the template 24/7, never use the template 24/5. They are useless. Store the appropriate template for each instrument and save it under instrument settings, only use charts with instrument settings.

If you follow this rule all your strategies and backtests will work correctly.

The only thing that you need to pay attention to is time filters. You strategy runs in local time. The logic of your timefilter needs to follow exchange time, so you need to convert those times.

Example: In a strategy you only want to enter a trade between 9:30 AM and 11:30 AM or 2:00 PM and 3:45 PM exchange time. Now you cannot simply add 13 hours to the time window in exchange time and then use the result in local time. This will fail, because the time difference between EST and your timezone is 12 hours in summer, but 13 hours in winter. Your backtest will go wrong.

NinjaScript provides an easy way of converting the exchange time windows to your local time. The method reads

 
Code
localTime =  TimeZoneInfo.ConvertTime(exchangeTime, Bars.Session.TimeZoneInfo, TimeZoneInfo.Local);


Enter the time filters in exchange time and then convert them, and you will not run into issues.

None of the above is linked to Interactive Brokers.

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 Big Mike 
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Fat Tails View Post
NinjaTrader always stores data by using timestamps of your local time. This is in fact a very bad choice, for several reasons

-> in case that your local time switches from summertime to wintertime and the exchange time does not, you will get two bars with the same timestamp
-> you cannot share your data easily with somebody located in a different time zone

But things are as they are, so we have to accept it.

Have you made an official request for this to be changed, or posted it here:



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 Fat Tails 
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Big Mike View Post
Have you made an official request for this to be changed, or posted it here:



Mike

No, I have not.

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 NLD1888 
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Fat Tails,
Thank you for your quick response. I guess the best way is to set the PC clock time to EST to avoid all the trouble.

BM,
I'll write something on the linked tread that you have suggested for NT8.

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 Mobiius 
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All our trading computers are set to EST. We also have additional computer clocks that show london and HK. It gets me in the mood/mode and makes it a little easier as when they ring the bell at 9:30 and market opens I'm not double checking my time and getting confused. 9:30 is 9:30.

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 Fat Tails 
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Mobiius View Post
All our trading computers are set to EST. We also have additional computer clocks that show london and HK. It gets me in the mood/mode and makes it a little easier as when they ring the bell at 9:30 and market opens I'm not double checking my time and getting confused. 9:30 is 9:30.

But you would need a different PC for each exchange that you trade......

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 keymoo 
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Tasker_182 View Post
Hi,

If you live outside the Eastern Standard Time (Est) zone, do you set your computer and or software to reference EST?

I live in central US, (CST) and have recently begun posting charts and shtuff in my journal but all my times reference CST and I was wondering if that is the wrong way to do things. I thought I read somewhere (not sure where) that one fella set his PC to be EST even though he was PST. I didn't know if this is common or even standard practice, so thought i would ask.

I use Ninja, so if anyone has any specific suggestions or recommendation, please let me know.

Regards,

I live in UK and trade the NQ exclusively. I set my PC to local (UK) time. Works fine.

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StockHunter
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I keep my clocks at the timezone I live in (MST) and just do the quick calculations off the top of my head if I need to time something for EST or London.

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 DarkPoolTrading 
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Hey all,

Are there any suggestions for how to setup chart session times correctly when charting both the US and EU sessions.

For example say you want to trade the Euro and you would like to chart both the London and the US session. These are the periods where the most volume and volatility exists for this product. So the Asian session would be thought of as the overnight.

The problem comes in the fact that the London and US daylight savings times start/end at different times of the year. There is about 1-2 weeks difference coming into and out of daylight savings between London (EU) and US.

So if you were to use a London session template, the start time would always line up to the start of the London session. However when London goes into daylight savings, the US doesn't do so for another couple weeks.

This is not an issue for those trading US based products (eg: ES). However for Currency futures, there is no doubt that the majority of the volume and volatility happens during both the US and EU sessions.

This is only really a problem twice a year for 1-2 weeks. But never the less this screws with what you're seeing (especially gaps)

Any suggestions?

(I use Sierra Chart so would appreciate any direct advice on the platform. But any general non platform suggestions will help too)

thanks.

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 DarkPoolTrading 
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
Hey all,

Are there any suggestions for how to setup chart session times correctly when charting both the US and EU sessions.

For example say you want to trade the Euro and you would like to chart both the London and the US session. These are the periods where the most volume and volatility exists for this product. So the Asian session would be thought of as the overnight.

The problem comes in the fact that the London and US daylight savings times start/end at different times of the year. There is about 1-2 weeks difference coming into and out of daylight savings between London (EU) and US.

So if you were to use a London session template, the start time would always line up to the start of the London session. However when London goes into daylight savings, the US doesn't do so for another couple weeks.

This is not an issue for those trading US based products (eg: ES). However for Currency futures, there is no doubt that the majority of the volume and volatility happens during both the US and EU sessions.

This is only really a problem twice a year for 1-2 weeks. But never the less this screws with what you're seeing (especially gaps)

Any suggestions?

(I use Sierra Chart so would appreciate any direct advice on the platform. But any general non platform suggestions will help too)

thanks.

Giving this a quick bump and then ill shut up if no one responds. There's quite a few Euro traders on the forum. If you've ever wanted to only chart the EU + US session (ie: the highest volume and volatility periods), then the above issue will affect you. For US based products this isn't really an issue, but it certainly is for EU currency trading (eg: Euro, Pound).

thanks.

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 ratfink 
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
Giving this a quick bump and then ill shut up if no one responds. There's quite a few Euro traders on the forum. If you've ever wanted to only chart the EU + US session (ie: the highest volume and volatility periods), then the above issue will affect you. For US based products this isn't really an issue, but it certainly is for EU currency trading (eg: Euro, Pound).

thanks.

I use several of the eth/rth session templates in Ninja, according to what I want to see for different instruments, rth patterns/highs/lows/fibs and eth highs/lows/fibs are all relevant. Interestingly, the one I am finding more useful now is the Eurex 14 hour period, basically it says Asia time doesn't currently matter anywhere near as much and, as it drives the 4 hour cycles, that works for me. I don't know SC so can't help there.

I have no good platform solution for the clock time-shift week(s), but then I am usually a screw-up at those times of year anyway, so gap concerns would just be white noise.

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 DarkPoolTrading 
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ratfink View Post
I use several of the eth/rth session templates in Ninja, according to what I want to see for different instruments, rth patterns/highs/lows/fibs and eth highs/lows/fibs are all relevant. Interestingly, the one I am finding more useful now is the Eurex 14 hour period, basically it says Asia time doesn't currently matter anywhere near as much and, as it drives the 4 hour cycles, that works for me. I don't know SC so can't help there.

I have no good platform solution for the clock time-shift week(s), but then I am usually a screw-up at those times of year anyway, so gap concerns would just be white noise.

Thanks ratfink. I kind of figured there was no platform solution but thought id throw it out there just in case.

Im surprised that this hasn't come up more often, specifically with currency traders. The fact that daylight savings in the EU and US starts/ends a couple weeks apart makes a big difference in what you're looking at over that period.

thanks.

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dimpledbrain
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Fat Tails View Post
I am not married to any specific program, so I have the system clock of my PC set in my local time.

For NinjaTrader there is no reason to use a different time zone then your local time zone. There are two points that I would like to mention

-> make sure that all your session templates use the time zone of the exchange, where the instrument displayed is traded
-> when importing data make sure that you select the time zone, which has been used beforehand to store that data

@Fat Tails and others,

so I am going thru this thread and I got some questions:

(1) So I set my PC to my local time zone (GMT+8)
(2) When I load the templates (all CME Group products), by default, they will be on the time zone of the exchange because they have been preset per instrument manager. (I'll ignore 'importing data' for now as I don't know what it really does)
(3) I m looking at daily chart and tick chart. The tick chart is correctly displayed as per my local time zone (e.g. 4.13 pm 14 Feb 2014) but the daily chart is one day ahead (15 Feb 2014)...Did I miss out on something here? Refer to attachment

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  #27 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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dimpledbrain View Post
@Fat Tails and others,

so I am going thru this thread and I got some questions:

(1) So I set my PC to my local time zone (GMT+8)
(2) When I load the templates (all CME Group products), by default, they will be on the time zone of the exchange because they have been preset per instrument manager. (I'll ignore 'importing data' for now as I don't know what it really does)
(3) I m looking at daily chart and tick chart. The tick chart is correctly displayed as per my local time zone (e.g. 4.13 pm 14 Feb 2014) but the daily chart is one day ahead (15 Feb 2014)...Did I miss out on something here? Refer to attachment

@dimpledbrain: The session template is only applied to intraday charts such as minute or tick charts. All intraday charts are displayed in local time as selected for your PC. Session templates are used to determine the start and end of the contractual trading day.

If you look at a daily chart, the data is shown as supplied by your data provider. For example, if your data provider supplies daily bars with a time stamp (closing time) of 4:00 PM Central Time (for 6E), this time stamp is converted to your local time, which would be 6:00 AM next day. Yesterday's daily bar which closed at 4:00 PM on February 13, therefore got a time stamp at 6:00 AM on February 14. Therefore it is displayed with a date of February 14.

If you display a daily chart for a Malaysian or other Asian exchange, those bars will not be shifted forward by one day, because their time stamps are more or less in line with local time. There is nothing wrong with this ... the globe is round and somehow the charting software has to take that into account.

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  #28 (permalink)
dimpledbrain
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Hello @Fat Tails,

Ok, got it. So in this instance, I'll just have to read the daily chart and tick charts as it is now right? The daily chart bars will not be adjusted retrospectively right...meaning in this instance, it will always be 1 day ahead....

is my understanding correct...

I'm using kinetick btw..

thanks again

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  #29 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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dimpledbrain View Post
Hello @Fat Tails,

Ok, got it. So in this instance, I'll just have to read the daily chart and tick charts as it is now right? The daily chart bars will not be adjusted retrospectively right...meaning in this instance, it will always be 1 day ahead....

is my understanding correct...

I'm using kinetick btw..

thanks again


Yes, the daily chart will always show 1 day ahead. This is because you are located in Malaysia.

6E closes a 4:00 PM CT. That means that a trader located in Athens will see the close at midnight local time and still have the correct trading day.

However, that same trader will get a daily bar with the date of the next day for CL, as CL closes at 5:15 PM EST, which is 0:15 AM in Athens.

Anybody located east of Athens will see the same behavior. Traders in Central Europe and further West are not affected, as the US trading day typically ends prior to 6:00 PM EST.

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 sands 
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Local time all the way for me, I think I need to know when to go to sleep sometimes :-)

plus being in the UK is nice and central you can trade London hours and NY hours. Although i personally keep a second clock makes things a tad easier.

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  #31 (permalink)
 baruchs 
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I put my clock to EST.

Quoting 
For NinjaTrader there is no reason to use a different time zone then your local time zone.

I disagree.
I do mostly auto trading and the daylight saving time change is the thing that bothers me.
US and my local don't start/end at the same day.

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  #32 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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baruchs View Post
I put my clock to EST.

I disagree.
I do mostly auto trading and the daylight saving time change is the thing that bothers me.
US and my local don't start/end at the same day.

With the NinjaTrader session manager there is a powerful tool to handle all daylight savings times issues automatically.

Of course if you use indicators which do not use the tools - that is session templates - to the proper conversion, then it is painful to adapt to the daylight savings time.

All that is needed is to run strategies and backtests for each instrument with a proper session template - and when time filters are used, use Timespan objects to indicate the time elapsed since the start of the session.

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  #33 (permalink)
 baruchs 
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Fat Tails View Post
With the NinjaTrader session manager there is a powerful tool to handle all daylight savings times issues automatically.

Of course if you use indicators which do not use the tools - that is session templates - to the proper conversion, then it is painful to adapt to the daylight savings time.

All that is needed is to run strategies and back tests for each instrument with a proper session template - and when time filters are used, use Timespan objects to indicate the time elapsed since the start of the session.

I always want to learn new tricks, so please explain.
If you live in Europe and your local time is GMT+1, then your regular RTH session for eminies will be 14:30-22:15.
Now if Europe changes the clock to summer time or winter time not at the same time as US, you have two options for live trading:
Move your computer clock or use a new session template (15:30-23:15 or 13:30-21:15).
You also need to be aware when the US catches up.
That's what I know, maybe you have another option.
This is for live trading, but how you keep the template dynamic for back testing?
Baruch,
p.s.
I even don't want to bother the form with our local situation, that each year the winter and summer times start at different days.

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  #34 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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baruchs View Post
Now if Europe changes the clock to summer time or winter time not at the same time as US, you have two options for live trading:
Move your computer clock or use a new session template (15:30-23:15 or 13:30-21:15).

@baruchs: My answer is no.

When Europe changes the time I simply do nothing. The local time is not important, you may select whatever you wish. Therefore I use the local time that I am used to, which is Central European Time.

There is only one thing that is important:

The time zone of the session template used for the chart needs to be the timezone of the exchange, where the instrument displayed on the chart is traded.


For example:

- For a FDAX chart I use specific EUREX session templates (for example EUREX Equity Index Futures) which are set in Central European Time (CET).
- For a CL chart I use specific NYMEX session templates (for example NYMEX Metals/Energy ETH) which are set in Eastern Standard Time (EST)
- For a ES chart I use specific CME session templates (for example CME Equity Index Futures) which are set in Central Time (CT).

If you stick to the rule that the time zone of the session template must match the time zone of the exchange where the instrument is traded, you will never ever run into trouble. NinjaTrader will automatically shift all session start and end times as needed.

Best Practice:

Open the instrument manager and make sure that the master data for each instrument shows the appropriate session template. Save the instrument settings. Open all your charts with the session template <instrument settings>. Never ever use session templates such as 24/7, as there is no instrument in the world of trading that matches such a trading day.

Bonus:

The SessionPivots, SessionVWAPs, SessionTWAPs, RollingPivots, OpeningRange and InitialBalanceRangeBands indicators all auto-adjust to the selected session templates and further auto-adjust to all known DST schedules as needed.

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 baruchs 
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Thanks Fat tails for the explanation.
Does it works also in back testing?

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  #36 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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baruchs View Post
Thanks Fat tails for the explanation.
Does it works also in back testing?

Yes, it also works in backtesting. When you open the strategy analyzer, make sure to select the correct session template, for example <instrument settings>. The session template must use the same time zone as the exchange where the instrument is traded.

Of course, if you start a back test on the FDAX with a session template 24/7, it will not work, because that session template is in EST.

You can also do portfolio backtest with the session template <instrument settings>, as this will allow to backtest each instrument against its own trading times. Portfolio backtests which use other session templates than <instrument settings> and which involve several time zones will always produce false results.

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