NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Trader loses 130k+ on short, owes eTrade 100k


Discussion in Stocks and ETFs

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Big Mike with 18 posts (55 thanks)
    2. looks_two xelaar with 13 posts (10 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Scalpguy with 7 posts (4 thanks)
    4. looks_4 TheShrike with 6 posts (6 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Big Mike with 3.1 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Fat Tails with 2.8 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 mattz with 2.5 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 xelaar with 0.8 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 29,414 views
    2. thumb_up 138 thanks given
    3. group 31 followers
    1. forum 105 posts
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Trader loses 130k+ on short, owes eTrade 100k

  #61 (permalink)
 
xelaar's Avatar
 xelaar 
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
Posts: 1,505 since Feb 2013
Thanks Given: 1,740
Thanks Received: 2,568


Big Mike View Post
Of course it can.

And 24 hours solves nothing. Stocks are halted intraday all the time for news releases.

Mike

Mike, there was no true gap per se, only in perspective of RTH. If someone trades volatile stuff like that especially short, one must have after-hours trading platform access. It was certainly possible to exit should he kept monitoring his position. But I also heard shorts were unobtainable (at Wedbush certainly there were none), it's a wonder such a fine establishment like E-trade had them and plentiful..


Trade to live. Not live to trade.
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to xelaar for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
NexusFi Journal Challenge - April 2024
Feedback and Announcements
Request for MACD with option to use different MAs for fa …
NinjaTrader
My NT8 Volume Profile Split by Asian/Euro/Open
NinjaTrader
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Retail Trading As An Industry
58 thanks
Battlestations: Show us your trading desks!
55 thanks
NexusFi site changelog and issues/problem reporting
48 thanks
What percentage per day is possible? [Poll]
31 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
29 thanks

  #62 (permalink)
 
ElChacal's Avatar
 ElChacal 
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader TWS Barchart
Broker: IB / IB
Trading: SPY, QQQ
Posts: 411 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 471
Thanks Received: 277


xelaar View Post


It would seem like lack of a Stop order. Sad anyway.

Reply With Quote
  #63 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,322 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,143
Thanks Received: 101,477



xelaar View Post
Mike, there was no true gap per se, only in perspective of RTH.

You are right, I misunderstood and thought it was after the AH session was over.

I checked my data, here it is grouped by last price, first 100 price changes after 4pm

 
Code
MariaDB [ticks]> select * from KBIO where Date between '2015-11-18 16:00:00' and '2015-11-19' group by Last limit 100;
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
| Date                    | Last    | LastSize | Bid     | Ask     | TickID  | BasisForLast | TradeMarketCenter | TradeConditions |
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
| 2015-11-18 16:09:41.605 | 2.00000 |      100 | 1.97000 | 2.00000 | 2649070 | E            |                11 | 1747            |
| 2015-11-18 16:00:00.051 | 2.01000 |        0 | 2.00000 | 2.01000 | 2645080 | O            |                11 | 2E              |
| 2015-11-18 16:00:00.173 | 2.07000 |     6504 | 2.00000 | 2.01000 | 2645658 | C            |                 5 | 4042            |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:10.150 | 2.09000 |      100 | 2.01000 | 2.09000 | 2649193 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:22.749 | 2.11000 |    10000 | 2.09000 | 2.11000 | 2649251 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:57.618 | 2.20000 |      200 | 2.20000 | 2.27000 | 2649533 | E            |                11 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.508 | 2.24000 |        1 | 2.09000 | 2.27000 | 2649269 | O            |                 5 | 873D17          |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:34.636 | 2.25000 |      500 | 2.11000 | 2.27000 | 2649360 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.470 | 2.26000 |      100 | 2.10000 | 2.26000 | 2649252 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.605 | 2.27000 |      200 | 2.09000 | 2.40000 | 2649277 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:11:21.196 | 2.39000 |      100 | 2.21000 | 2.39000 | 2649656 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:11:50.100 | 2.40000 |      800 | 2.25000 | 2.44000 | 2649783 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:11.677 | 2.44000 |     1000 | 2.40000 | 2.44000 | 2649815 | E            |                19 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:54.915 | 2.58000 |      200 | 2.35000 | 2.75000 | 2650400 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:57.086 | 2.70000 |     1000 | 2.65000 | 2.79000 | 2651006 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:56.801 | 2.75000 |      100 | 2.70000 | 2.75000 | 2650454 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:57.182 | 2.76000 |      300 | 2.80000 | 3.50000 | 2650456 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:57.729 | 2.79000 |      150 | 2.65000 | 2.79000 | 2651009 | E            |                19 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:52.628 | 2.86000 |      100 | 2.70000 | 2.86000 | 2650991 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:02.683 | 2.87000 |      100 | 2.87000 | 2.89000 | 2651021 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:05.637 | 2.89000 |      100 | 2.88000 | 2.89000 | 2651063 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:10.013 | 2.90000 |      200 | 2.89000 | 2.90000 | 2651101 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.173 | 2.92000 |      200 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651125 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.177 | 2.97000 |      500 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651126 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.177 | 2.98000 |      100 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651127 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.185 | 2.99000 |      200 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651131 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:15.479 | 3.00000 |      500 | 2.75000 | 2.98000 | 2650573 | E            |                11 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.652 | 3.09000 |     1850 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652045 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:52.395 | 3.10000 |     3000 | 3.00000 | 3.10000 | 2651558 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:17:34.410 | 3.11000 |      200 | 3.10000 | 3.19000 | 2652433 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:18:44.450 | 3.12000 |      100 | 3.11000 | 3.19000 | 2652663 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:13.620 | 3.15000 |     1000 | 3.15000 | 3.21000 | 2652759 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.649 | 3.17000 |      300 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652043 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.652 | 3.18000 |     1000 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652046 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.654 | 3.19000 |      500 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652047 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:12.221 | 3.20000 |      400 | 3.05000 | 3.24000 | 2652126 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:33.869 | 3.21000 |      100 | 3.20000 | 3.21000 | 2652197 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:11.431 | 3.23000 |      200 | 3.10000 | 3.25000 | 2651774 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:13.465 | 3.24000 |      100 | 3.20000 | 3.24000 | 2652129 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:11.431 | 3.25000 |      550 | 3.10000 | 3.25000 | 2651775 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:40.911 | 3.26000 |     1000 | 3.25000 | 3.26000 | 2652238 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:13.467 | 3.29000 |      200 | 3.20000 | 3.24000 | 2652131 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:40.933 | 3.35000 |       25 | 3.25000 | 3.38000 | 2652239 | O            |                 5 | 873D17          |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.311 | 3.36000 |      200 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652886 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:15.390 | 3.38000 |      100 | 3.00000 | 3.39000 | 2651148 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:20.334 | 3.39000 |      500 | 3.20000 | 3.39000 | 2652153 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:37.745 | 3.40000 |      100 | 3.35000 | 3.44000 | 2652855 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.316 | 3.44000 |      500 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652888 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.318 | 3.45000 |      500 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652890 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.320 | 3.50000 |     1000 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652891 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:01.642 | 3.60000 |     1000 | 3.60000 | 3.69000 | 2652924 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:04.954 | 3.61000 |      500 | 3.60000 | 3.61000 | 2652927 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:18.944 | 3.65000 |       62 | 3.65000 | 3.75000 | 2652961 | O            |                11 | 8717            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:13.439 | 3.70000 |      100 | 3.63000 | 3.70000 | 2652946 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:16.146 | 3.74000 |      300 | 3.65000 | 3.74000 | 2652955 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:18.893 | 3.75000 |      200 | 3.65000 | 3.75000 | 2652960 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:23.997 | 3.77000 |      100 | 3.76000 | 3.77000 | 2652986 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:37.383 | 3.78000 |      100 | 3.77000 | 3.78000 | 2653015 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:32.981 | 3.79000 |      100 | 3.77000 | 3.84000 | 2653010 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:27.880 | 3.84000 |      150 | 3.75000 | 3.84000 | 2652996 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:21.969 | 3.89000 |      500 | 3.75000 | 3.94000 | 2652985 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.567 | 3.91000 |      100 | 3.84000 | 3.94000 | 2653021 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:24.899 | 3.93000 |      100 | 3.76000 | 3.93000 | 2652988 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.729 | 3.94000 |      500 | 3.85000 | 3.99000 | 2653022 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.591 | 3.98000 |      200 | 3.88000 | 3.99000 | 2653047 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.875 | 3.99000 |      100 | 3.85000 | 3.99000 | 2653024 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.614 | 4.00000 |      200 | 3.88000 | 4.00000 | 2653060 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:47.469 | 4.01000 |      100 | 4.01000 | 4.16000 | 2653073 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:47.465 | 4.02000 |      400 | 4.01000 | 4.16000 | 2653072 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:55.278 | 4.05000 |       25 | 4.05000 | 4.25000 | 2653110 | O            |                11 | 873D17          |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:49.982 | 4.14000 |      100 | 4.05000 | 4.16000 | 2653074 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:55.274 | 4.15000 |       75 | 4.05000 | 4.25000 | 2653109 | O            |                11 | 8717            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:49.982 | 4.16000 |      100 | 4.05000 | 4.16000 | 2653075 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:51.651 | 4.17000 |      200 | 4.16000 | 4.17000 | 2653083 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:50.945 | 4.19000 |      100 | 4.05000 | 4.19000 | 2653078 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.977 | 4.20000 |      100 | 4.00000 | 4.20000 | 2653062 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:28.502 | 4.21000 |      300 | 4.20000 | 4.21000 | 2653328 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.790 | 4.22000 |      100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653349 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:22:14.758 | 4.23000 |       50 | 4.22000 | 4.30000 | 2653598 | O            |                11 | 8717            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:53.192 | 4.24000 |      100 | 4.16000 | 4.19000 | 2653095 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:53.720 | 4.25000 |      500 | 4.16000 | 4.19000 | 2653102 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.621 | 4.25500 |      100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653347 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.622 | 4.26000 |      100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653348 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:47.243 | 4.27000 |       50 | 4.24000 | 4.31000 | 2653417 | O            |                11 | 8717            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:34.337 | 4.28000 |      100 | 4.21000 | 4.29000 | 2653357 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:34.347 | 4.29000 |      300 | 4.21000 | 4.29000 | 2653358 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:33.055 | 4.30000 |      200 | 4.29000 | 4.30000 | 2653352 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:27.666 | 4.31000 |      500 | 4.30000 | 4.31000 | 2653312 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:40.859 | 4.32000 |      100 | 4.31000 | 4.32000 | 2653384 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:40.859 | 4.33000 |      100 | 4.31000 | 4.32000 | 2653383 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:51.434 | 4.34000 |      100 | 4.32000 | 4.33000 | 2653441 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:59.618 | 4.35000 |      200 | 4.32000 | 4.37000 | 2653502 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:25.943 | 4.36000 |      100 | 4.52000 | 4.53000 | 2653309 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:58.264 | 4.37000 |     1000 | 4.36000 | 4.40000 | 2653483 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:23:06.885 | 4.38000 |      200 | 4.32000 | 4.40000 | 2653969 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.971 | 4.39000 |      500 | 4.04000 | 4.41000 | 2653120 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:55.967 | 4.40000 |      100 | 4.38000 | 4.39000 | 2653476 | E            |                12 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.973 | 4.41000 |      100 | 4.04000 | 4.41000 | 2653121 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.976 | 4.44000 |      500 | 4.50000 | 4.55000 | 2653123 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:23:14.153 | 4.46000 |      300 | 4.40000 | 4.47000 | 2654033 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
100 rows in set (0.00 sec)
So it seems he had a) no stop and/or b) didn't specify his stop could be filled on AH exchanges

Mike

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
  #64 (permalink)
 
Blash's Avatar
 Blash 
Chicago, IL
Legendary Market Chamois
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
Posts: 2,311 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 7,341
Thanks Received: 4,518

Unfortunately there is a great deal to learn regarding trading and this poor guy has now experienced the immense impact of his want for knowledge in as real a way as possible. I feel extremely grateful to have a small measure of education in this field so I am able to protect myself from myself. As I see it: risk management, position sizing per account size, choosing tradable instruments with long term research and relative stability in mind, comparatively small consistent trades set up opportunities over the big picture which in turn enable outsized gains through position management, trading for home runs in and of itself is counterproductive… are among some of the gems I have unearthed along my journey.
Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #65 (permalink)
farmer55
Minneapolis+ MN / USA
 
Posts: 32 since Jan 2011
Thanks Given: 1
Thanks Received: 57

Of all days to log in to see whats up. I check this site out maybe 2 times a yr. This guy just bought himself a Harvard education. Never ever hold anything over night. But I'll wager he wont learn this simple rule until he wipes his account out again. What the heck was he trading anyway? This is a business, not Las Vegas. I suggest he never trade again and continue doing what ever he was doing to have $130,000 at age 32.

Reply With Quote
  #66 (permalink)
 jz166 
NY, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT/IB TWS
Broker: IB
Trading: ES
Posts: 951 since Sep 2009
Thanks Given: 813
Thanks Received: 444

I am confused. Shouldn't etrade liquidate his shorts before any margin call hits him?

Reply With Quote
  #67 (permalink)
 
Inletcap's Avatar
 Inletcap 
Murrells Inlet SC
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Trading: ES, CL, ETFs
Posts: 9,159 since Dec 2012
Thanks Given: 9,765
Thanks Received: 26,036


jz166 View Post
I am confused. Shouldn't etrade liquidate his shorts before any margin call hits him?

Nope- that's what the margin call does- tells you to bring more money to stay in the game

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #68 (permalink)
 
Inletcap's Avatar
 Inletcap 
Murrells Inlet SC
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Trading: ES, CL, ETFs
Posts: 9,159 since Dec 2012
Thanks Given: 9,765
Thanks Received: 26,036


shanmugs View Post
I cant find 1 share of this stock to short. There is none to borrow anywhere. I cant understand how Etrade let him short 9000 shares unless Etrade took the other side of his trade. This whole story sounds bogus to me.

I came here to post the same thing- its been in my mind all day. No BD I have worked for would ever allow one to short penny stocks. I was wondering if the world of $2 online BDs had got into this game- and somehow had these to loan- Sompin' fishey going on here...

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #69 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
Posts: 285 since Aug 2013
Thanks Given: 70
Thanks Received: 271

Sounds like he was following Timothy Sykes with shorting the low cost stock through Etrade. He's all about shorting penny stocks.

I feel for the guy, but don't go online and expect others to pay for your stupid mistake.

Reply With Quote
  #70 (permalink)
 
xelaar's Avatar
 xelaar 
prague, czech republic
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
Posts: 1,505 since Feb 2013
Thanks Given: 1,740
Thanks Received: 2,568



emini2000 View Post
Sounds like he was following Timothy Sykes with shorting the low cost stock through Etrade. He's all about shorting penny stocks.

I feel for the guy, but don't go online and expect others to pay for your stupid mistake.

From what I read in Sykes book he lived by the screen including ah and bh. This guy put a short and went to a bar. The problem was not the low price but just 4M shares float.

Trade to live. Not live to trade.
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to xelaar for this post:





Last Updated on August 31, 2017


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts