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Trader loses 130k+ on short, owes eTrade 100k
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Trader loses 130k+ on short, owes eTrade 100k

  #61 (permalink)
Elite Member
prague, czech republic
 
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Big Mike View Post
Of course it can.

And 24 hours solves nothing. Stocks are halted intraday all the time for news releases.

Mike

Mike, there was no true gap per se, only in perspective of RTH. If someone trades volatile stuff like that especially short, one must have after-hours trading platform access. It was certainly possible to exit should he kept monitoring his position. But I also heard shorts were unobtainable (at Wedbush certainly there were none), it's a wonder such a fine establishment like E-trade had them and plentiful..

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  #62 (permalink)
Patience my young padawan
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xelaar View Post

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It would seem like lack of a Stop order. Sad anyway.

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  #63 (permalink)
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xelaar View Post
Mike, there was no true gap per se, only in perspective of RTH.

You are right, I misunderstood and thought it was after the AH session was over.

I checked my data, here it is grouped by last price, first 100 price changes after 4pm

 
Code
MariaDB [ticks]> select * from KBIO where Date between '2015-11-18 16:00:00' and '2015-11-19' group by Last limit 100;
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
| Date                    | Last    | LastSize | Bid     | Ask     | TickID  | BasisForLast | TradeMarketCenter | TradeConditions |
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
| 2015-11-18 16:09:41.605 | 2.00000 |      100 | 1.97000 | 2.00000 | 2649070 | E            |                11 | 1747            |
| 2015-11-18 16:00:00.051 | 2.01000 |        0 | 2.00000 | 2.01000 | 2645080 | O            |                11 | 2E              |
| 2015-11-18 16:00:00.173 | 2.07000 |     6504 | 2.00000 | 2.01000 | 2645658 | C            |                 5 | 4042            |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:10.150 | 2.09000 |      100 | 2.01000 | 2.09000 | 2649193 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:22.749 | 2.11000 |    10000 | 2.09000 | 2.11000 | 2649251 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:57.618 | 2.20000 |      200 | 2.20000 | 2.27000 | 2649533 | E            |                11 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.508 | 2.24000 |        1 | 2.09000 | 2.27000 | 2649269 | O            |                 5 | 873D17          |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:34.636 | 2.25000 |      500 | 2.11000 | 2.27000 | 2649360 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.470 | 2.26000 |      100 | 2.10000 | 2.26000 | 2649252 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.605 | 2.27000 |      200 | 2.09000 | 2.40000 | 2649277 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:11:21.196 | 2.39000 |      100 | 2.21000 | 2.39000 | 2649656 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:11:50.100 | 2.40000 |      800 | 2.25000 | 2.44000 | 2649783 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:11.677 | 2.44000 |     1000 | 2.40000 | 2.44000 | 2649815 | E            |                19 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:54.915 | 2.58000 |      200 | 2.35000 | 2.75000 | 2650400 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:57.086 | 2.70000 |     1000 | 2.65000 | 2.79000 | 2651006 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:56.801 | 2.75000 |      100 | 2.70000 | 2.75000 | 2650454 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:57.182 | 2.76000 |      300 | 2.80000 | 3.50000 | 2650456 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:57.729 | 2.79000 |      150 | 2.65000 | 2.79000 | 2651009 | E            |                19 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:52.628 | 2.86000 |      100 | 2.70000 | 2.86000 | 2650991 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:02.683 | 2.87000 |      100 | 2.87000 | 2.89000 | 2651021 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:05.637 | 2.89000 |      100 | 2.88000 | 2.89000 | 2651063 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:10.013 | 2.90000 |      200 | 2.89000 | 2.90000 | 2651101 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.173 | 2.92000 |      200 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651125 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.177 | 2.97000 |      500 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651126 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.177 | 2.98000 |      100 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651127 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.185 | 2.99000 |      200 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651131 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:15.479 | 3.00000 |      500 | 2.75000 | 2.98000 | 2650573 | E            |                11 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.652 | 3.09000 |     1850 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652045 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:52.395 | 3.10000 |     3000 | 3.00000 | 3.10000 | 2651558 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:17:34.410 | 3.11000 |      200 | 3.10000 | 3.19000 | 2652433 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:18:44.450 | 3.12000 |      100 | 3.11000 | 3.19000 | 2652663 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:13.620 | 3.15000 |     1000 | 3.15000 | 3.21000 | 2652759 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.649 | 3.17000 |      300 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652043 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.652 | 3.18000 |     1000 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652046 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.654 | 3.19000 |      500 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652047 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:12.221 | 3.20000 |      400 | 3.05000 | 3.24000 | 2652126 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:33.869 | 3.21000 |      100 | 3.20000 | 3.21000 | 2652197 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:11.431 | 3.23000 |      200 | 3.10000 | 3.25000 | 2651774 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:13.465 | 3.24000 |      100 | 3.20000 | 3.24000 | 2652129 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:11.431 | 3.25000 |      550 | 3.10000 | 3.25000 | 2651775 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:40.911 | 3.26000 |     1000 | 3.25000 | 3.26000 | 2652238 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:13.467 | 3.29000 |      200 | 3.20000 | 3.24000 | 2652131 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:40.933 | 3.35000 |       25 | 3.25000 | 3.38000 | 2652239 | O            |                 5 | 873D17          |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.311 | 3.36000 |      200 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652886 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:15.390 | 3.38000 |      100 | 3.00000 | 3.39000 | 2651148 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:20.334 | 3.39000 |      500 | 3.20000 | 3.39000 | 2652153 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:37.745 | 3.40000 |      100 | 3.35000 | 3.44000 | 2652855 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.316 | 3.44000 |      500 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652888 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.318 | 3.45000 |      500 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652890 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.320 | 3.50000 |     1000 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652891 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:01.642 | 3.60000 |     1000 | 3.60000 | 3.69000 | 2652924 | E            |                26 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:04.954 | 3.61000 |      500 | 3.60000 | 3.61000 | 2652927 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:18.944 | 3.65000 |       62 | 3.65000 | 3.75000 | 2652961 | O            |                11 | 8717            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:13.439 | 3.70000 |      100 | 3.63000 | 3.70000 | 2652946 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:16.146 | 3.74000 |      300 | 3.65000 | 3.74000 | 2652955 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:18.893 | 3.75000 |      200 | 3.65000 | 3.75000 | 2652960 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:23.997 | 3.77000 |      100 | 3.76000 | 3.77000 | 2652986 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:37.383 | 3.78000 |      100 | 3.77000 | 3.78000 | 2653015 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:32.981 | 3.79000 |      100 | 3.77000 | 3.84000 | 2653010 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:27.880 | 3.84000 |      150 | 3.75000 | 3.84000 | 2652996 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:21.969 | 3.89000 |      500 | 3.75000 | 3.94000 | 2652985 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.567 | 3.91000 |      100 | 3.84000 | 3.94000 | 2653021 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:24.899 | 3.93000 |      100 | 3.76000 | 3.93000 | 2652988 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.729 | 3.94000 |      500 | 3.85000 | 3.99000 | 2653022 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.591 | 3.98000 |      200 | 3.88000 | 3.99000 | 2653047 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.875 | 3.99000 |      100 | 3.85000 | 3.99000 | 2653024 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.614 | 4.00000 |      200 | 3.88000 | 4.00000 | 2653060 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:47.469 | 4.01000 |      100 | 4.01000 | 4.16000 | 2653073 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:47.465 | 4.02000 |      400 | 4.01000 | 4.16000 | 2653072 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:55.278 | 4.05000 |       25 | 4.05000 | 4.25000 | 2653110 | O            |                11 | 873D17          |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:49.982 | 4.14000 |      100 | 4.05000 | 4.16000 | 2653074 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:55.274 | 4.15000 |       75 | 4.05000 | 4.25000 | 2653109 | O            |                11 | 8717            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:49.982 | 4.16000 |      100 | 4.05000 | 4.16000 | 2653075 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:51.651 | 4.17000 |      200 | 4.16000 | 4.17000 | 2653083 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:50.945 | 4.19000 |      100 | 4.05000 | 4.19000 | 2653078 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.977 | 4.20000 |      100 | 4.00000 | 4.20000 | 2653062 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:28.502 | 4.21000 |      300 | 4.20000 | 4.21000 | 2653328 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.790 | 4.22000 |      100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653349 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:22:14.758 | 4.23000 |       50 | 4.22000 | 4.30000 | 2653598 | O            |                11 | 8717            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:53.192 | 4.24000 |      100 | 4.16000 | 4.19000 | 2653095 | E            |                25 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:53.720 | 4.25000 |      500 | 4.16000 | 4.19000 | 2653102 | E            |                26 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.621 | 4.25500 |      100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653347 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.622 | 4.26000 |      100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653348 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:47.243 | 4.27000 |       50 | 4.24000 | 4.31000 | 2653417 | O            |                11 | 8717            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:34.337 | 4.28000 |      100 | 4.21000 | 4.29000 | 2653357 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:34.347 | 4.29000 |      300 | 4.21000 | 4.29000 | 2653358 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:33.055 | 4.30000 |      200 | 4.29000 | 4.30000 | 2653352 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:27.666 | 4.31000 |      500 | 4.30000 | 4.31000 | 2653312 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:40.859 | 4.32000 |      100 | 4.31000 | 4.32000 | 2653384 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:40.859 | 4.33000 |      100 | 4.31000 | 4.32000 | 2653383 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:51.434 | 4.34000 |      100 | 4.32000 | 4.33000 | 2653441 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:59.618 | 4.35000 |      200 | 4.32000 | 4.37000 | 2653502 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:25.943 | 4.36000 |      100 | 4.52000 | 4.53000 | 2653309 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:58.264 | 4.37000 |     1000 | 4.36000 | 4.40000 | 2653483 | E            |                 5 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:23:06.885 | 4.38000 |      200 | 4.32000 | 4.40000 | 2653969 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.971 | 4.39000 |      500 | 4.04000 | 4.41000 | 2653120 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:55.967 | 4.40000 |      100 | 4.38000 | 4.39000 | 2653476 | E            |                12 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.973 | 4.41000 |      100 | 4.04000 | 4.41000 | 2653121 | E            |                11 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.976 | 4.44000 |      500 | 4.50000 | 4.55000 | 2653123 | E            |                25 | 17              |
| 2015-11-18 16:23:14.153 | 4.46000 |      300 | 4.40000 | 4.47000 | 2654033 | E            |                 5 | 173D            |
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
100 rows in set (0.00 sec)
So it seems he had a) no stop and/or b) didn't specify his stop could be filled on AH exchanges

Mike

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  #64 (permalink)
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Unfortunately there is a great deal to learn regarding trading and this poor guy has now experienced the immense impact of his want for knowledge in as real a way as possible. I feel extremely grateful to have a small measure of education in this field so I am able to protect myself from myself. As I see it: risk management, position sizing per account size, choosing tradable instruments with long term research and relative stability in mind, comparatively small consistent trades set up opportunities over the big picture which in turn enable outsized gains through position management, trading for home runs in and of itself is counterproductive… are among some of the gems I have unearthed along my journey.
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  #65 (permalink)
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Of all days to log in to see whats up. I check this site out maybe 2 times a yr. This guy just bought himself a Harvard education. Never ever hold anything over night. But I'll wager he wont learn this simple rule until he wipes his account out again. What the heck was he trading anyway? This is a business, not Las Vegas. I suggest he never trade again and continue doing what ever he was doing to have $130,000 at age 32.

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  #66 (permalink)
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I am confused. Shouldn't etrade liquidate his shorts before any margin call hits him?

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  #67 (permalink)
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jz166 View Post
I am confused. Shouldn't etrade liquidate his shorts before any margin call hits him?

Nope- that's what the margin call does- tells you to bring more money to stay in the game

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  #68 (permalink)
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shanmugs View Post
I cant find 1 share of this stock to short. There is none to borrow anywhere. I cant understand how Etrade let him short 9000 shares unless Etrade took the other side of his trade. This whole story sounds bogus to me.

I came here to post the same thing- its been in my mind all day. No BD I have worked for would ever allow one to short penny stocks. I was wondering if the world of $2 online BDs had got into this game- and somehow had these to loan- Sompin' fishey going on here...

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  #69 (permalink)
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Sounds like he was following Timothy Sykes with shorting the low cost stock through Etrade. He's all about shorting penny stocks.

I feel for the guy, but don't go online and expect others to pay for your stupid mistake.

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  #70 (permalink)
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emini2000 View Post
Sounds like he was following Timothy Sykes with shorting the low cost stock through Etrade. He's all about shorting penny stocks.

I feel for the guy, but don't go online and expect others to pay for your stupid mistake.

From what I read in Sykes book he lived by the screen including ah and bh. This guy put a short and went to a bar. The problem was not the low price but just 4M shares float.

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There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
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