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Trading REAL MONEY
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Trading REAL MONEY

  #21 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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DetroitMoney View Post
There are 20 trading days in a month. I try to have but maybe 1 losing day in that time. When I say losing day I mean not making any money and giving them some of your profit you took from them let alone any of your own working capital. I'd rather eat broken glass than do that.

You've been trading for a week and you offer this advice?

Honestly, this is really absolutely terrible advice. This is exactly why most traders fail -- the inability to gracefully accept loss. Loss is part of trading. In fact, trading is all about loss. The true measure of a trader is their ability to accept that their trade was wrong, and to accept they will lose money on that trade in a controlled and pre-determined (risk) fashion.

Everyone "wants" to have only 1 losing day a month, or zero in fact. But to say you'd rather eat broken glass than to have a losing day, that to me is a massive red flag that you are treating trading more as gambling and are setting yourself up for failure.

Part of trading is treating it like a business. And that means you need to be realistic about all the expectations --- expectations of profit, of loss, of your trading ability, etc.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
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  #22 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
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Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
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DetroitMoney View Post
I don't think I have ever seen anyone post a live statement before here on this site. I figured I would so that when I said what I do is real people would not be able to say what they normally do when someone says they have made money in the live market trading real money. It's something that can't be bluffed. Hell you can call the broker for all I care if that's what you feel you need to do to believe someone can have success in the live market with real money.

Anyone who wants to do that just let me know and I will be happy to give you his name and number.

You've been a member on futures.io (formerly BMT) for 7 days.....

Also let me tell you that live statements can be faked. There is no true value if your goal is to get people to post live statements, or for you to post them in an effort to make people believe you are a good trader. It just doesn't work that way.

Any trader who has been around long enough knows that vendors can fake their statements, or have two separate accounts and take opposite positions, and just show you the statement that has fared the best.

That said, there is value in posting a daily statement if you want to get serious about your journaling. It is not about anyone but you (opposite intention of this thread). The value is accountability to yourself. Not in trying to prove anything to anyone, but instead to get serious about improving your trading through the process of journaling.

You can find a webinar on journaling on futures.io (formerly BMT) which can show you how to create one with useful metrics, and the benefits of doing so. You can also read the thousands of other journals here on futures.io (formerly BMT), and if you were to ask these traders (as I have) they would tell you that journaling has been the #1 most important part of improving their trading.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote
 
  #23 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
Detroit Michigan United States of America
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT TOS Scott Trade Live stream
Broker/Data: AMP Scott Trade TOS
Favorite Futures: Whatever is in play
 
Posts: 86 since Oct 2013
Thanks: 19 given, 35 received


Thanks for the advice Mike.

The fact that you made time in your schedule to comment is humbling.

Getting called a gambler and a lair is unreal though. Seems as though it never changes in these places.

I realized I made a mistake in starting this thread in the manner in which it was started. You can just take it down as it will serve no purpose to you guys. Or leave it up so that it can be a lesson as to how not to post on futures.io (formerly BMT). I'm good with that.

Thanks

Good luck in your trading everyone

DM


Last edited by DetroitMoney; November 3rd, 2013 at 06:55 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)
Elite Member
Toronto, Canada
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, MT4
Broker/Data: Amp/CQG, Citibank
Favorite Futures: CL, GC, 6E, ES, TF, EURUSD, GBPJPY, AUDUSD
 
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Posts: 349 since Sep 2010
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DetroitMoney View Post
I did not start this thread to teach anyone to trade. I'm no teacher. Matter of factly I should have not started it at all. Thanks for pointing out the things you did in your post I appreciate that. It shows me that I need to work on my communication skill in public more.

I don't know any reason now to continue this thread now.

I guess one (only?) goal(s) is to post account statements? There have indeed been folks who have posted statements here over the years; I remember starting out, and a 80+ page thread (not at all sure on the number) and seeing some statements posted in there; one of the more prominent ones I recall was like a member with individual day statements posted, with 1000's of dollars of profit, and I distinctly remember one day that was like ~$8700 or so! I recall it because I took it as proof - in my struggling days - that one can get to that point - it has served as considerable encouragement to me since then!! I am pretty sure I captured it somewhere to my hard drive or folders, but, years on now, with multiple drive and system upgrades having taken place, and I couldn't find it if you paid me a million bucks, lol! Nonetheless, I will check some other hard drives, and will gladly post the thread or graphic.


DetroitMoney View Post
I'm lol right now because I just did my numbers from my other business. I worked 31 physical days and did 41k. I was lol and thinking I can't wait to make that in a week in the market. My mentor told me he has taken out 6 figures before so I know it's do able. He trades size though and size is earned not a given so I have a ways to go on that.

As to what I trade and why I trade it? CL GC and/or NG. I go with what's in play and what I can make money in in the shortest period of time.

I started with a small account on purpose. As I said earlier when trading sim money it's not real and you will do things that you would/could never do IRM. I was no different. I did all that crazy stuff and got it all out of my system in there. The acid test in the live market only takes 5 trading days or until your money is gone. LoL

Wow, I am glad for you on the successes and confidence! You are right that the psychology boost to trading real $$$'s with extreme success is electric and confidence building.

But ... herein may like the problem. (Don't mean to put on my "parent-trader" hat but I guess I am ...) ... even the best of traders rarely have consistently continued success, being able to avoid often major pitfalls and psychologically shattering losses, that then can make it very very difficult to get back on track: sometimes it is the monetary amount that is lost (ie., 5%, 10%, 15%) but often it is the 'rut' that ensues due to seriously questioning one's ability and the sometimes subliminal action of not entering the market as often, with the same level of confidence, or in a smaller risk percentage. And that is where things change, and "don't keep up" with one's own expectations, so the human mind often tries to compensate for that performance, but in reality, that is the setup for unwitting sabotage.

I'm not sure how long you have traded CL, GC or NG before (seemingly) going live 7 days ago. You do seem wise enough to acknowledge that Sim trading doesn't capture everything, largely because incredibly few people are honest with themselves on the results & actions, and because the psychology of trading play money is hugely different. I mention this because CL & GC go through (IMHO) "phases." The last few weeks have been a 'calm' phase for GC. CL's phase has basically been 'just sell it' since $112. So, depending on the trader and what they perceive, a trader can be successful.

But CL's and GC's - and the overall market - 'personality' will change, again. It might be that the moves will become more extreme and volatile. It might be that it will become oversold/overbought, and then sharply change/continue, catching many off guard (ie., giving massive losses in a huge ADR day) Or, there might be a black swan event. Or, there might be a supposed 'fat finger' event. I have seen these. I have experienced CL drop almost $1 at 2:01 EST where 'some fund needed to liquidate' but then they call it a 'fat finger' event. Regardless, if you're in the market with a couple of cars, your stops can be missed as a few thousand CL cars enter the market at one price, and you can easily be out 4 digits, esp. if one is highly leveraged, which on a $5K or $10K account, is pretty much implied if trading CL. GC is similar: with it's generally crap liquidity, it can miss stops by many dollars. Weeks ago, 5K cars or something huge hit the market (it's happened a few times over the past weeks), and price jumps $10, $13 in a span of 3 seconds. I cite these examples because, little gains made over days or weeks, can easily wipe out 20%, 30% and more of those gains. I am citing these examples because everyone eventually can get caught in them. Sometimes you are on the right side, but often one is not.

I see Mike has provided similar and of course sane advice in the meantime, so, restating my somewhat dragged on points from above: consistentcy in trading is where proving one is 'a damn good trader' takes time and various market conditions. I genuinely wish you continued and consistent success in your venture.

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  #25 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.probabletrades.com 
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DetroitMoney View Post
I don't think I have ever seen anyone post a live statement before here on this site

I have a number of times, here's one example.

https://futures.io/trading-journals/477-shodson-s-trading-journal-75.html#post166567

I don't really bother too anymore since what's the point? I'm not trying to sell anything or convince anybody of my skills or lack of, so I don't bother. More recently I have posted weekly results and current positions which I think is more relevant than how much money you have in your account. Lots of times I'm not even sure how much money is in my account, I just worry about following my systems. I'm not embarrassed if I'm down a week and don't care about bragging if I'm up another week.

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  #26 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
Detroit Michigan United States of America
 
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Platform: NT TOS Scott Trade Live stream
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Thanks: 19 given, 35 received

Thanks again for your post.

I'm good now and won't be posting again in here. I'm no bullshiter or liar and my cred is solid. Seems as though others do not think so.

Good luck to you as well

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  #27 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
Detroit Michigan United States of America
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT TOS Scott Trade Live stream
Broker/Data: AMP Scott Trade TOS
Favorite Futures: Whatever is in play
 
Posts: 86 since Oct 2013
Thanks: 19 given, 35 received

I got it now shodson.

Next time I am in Socal I'll drop you a line and buy you a drink man.

Peace

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  #28 (permalink)
Elite Member
calgary canada
 
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Your a novice trader and anyone with experience can see that. I think you are struggling because you feel you have to prove yourself to people. I don't mean to be negative but if you don't check your ego you will never make the turn to consistent profitability.

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  #29 (permalink)
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Hey @DetroitMoney,

Don't be discouraged! Big Mike and all the commenters just don't want to see you go down a losing path and lose your money (and in a public way too).

If you can use your thread as a trading journal, it'll benefit you as mentioned by Big Mike:


Big Mike View Post
...That said, there is value in posting a daily statement if you want to get serious about your journaling. It is not about anyone but you (opposite intention of this thread). The value is accountability to yourself. Not in trying to prove anything to anyone, but instead to get serious about improving your trading through the process of journaling...You can also read the thousands of other journals here on futures.io (formerly BMT), and if you were to ask these traders (as I have) they would tell you that journaling has been the #1 most important part of improving their trading...

So, keep up your confidence in your trading and use your journal to help you whenever it is lost through trading mistakes or wrong judgement.

All the best in your trades!

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  #30 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
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Posts: 46,240 since Jun 2009
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DetroitMoney View Post
Thanks for the advice Mike.

Getting called a gambler and a lair is unreal though. Seems as though it never changes in these places.


DetroitMoney View Post

I'm good now and won't be posting again in here. I'm no bullshiter or liar and my cred is solid. Seems as though others do not think so.

I did not call you a liar. I went back and looked at my post so let me clarify what I was talking about with regards to live statements. What I meant was that live statements don't serve any value when you are using them as "proof", which is my understanding of what you are doing in this thread.

The reason they don't serve any value as "proof" is because they can be easily manipulated. And if not altered directly, they entire reasoning behind a statement as "proof" is not sound because someone could be showing only one half of the picture (if they had two accounts taking opposite positions).

Look, no one said you were altering your statements and I did not mean to construe that you were. My point was there is no value in demanding statements as proof of something. Traders on futures.io (formerly BMT) post statements in their own journals not as proof, but for accountability to themselves. This is important, it is to themselves -- not to others. Therefore one could reason they have no desire to cheat themselves

The examples that others have cited when posting statements has been just that -- in the form of a journal, and not in the form of "proof" of anything.

With regards to futures.io (formerly BMT) being just like other forums (ie "these places"), I do take issue with your statement. First, you've been here a week and have participated in three threads or so. It seems to me you've not given futures.io (formerly BMT) any kind of chance, but instead you seem to have some preconceived notion about the forum that holds it in a negative light.

I propose that you get out of futures.io (formerly BMT) what you put into it. And I believe futures.io (formerly BMT) is by far and away the best trading forum on the planet. I do my part to tightly moderate it, not allowing trollish behavior, mudslinging, fighting or otherwise childish behavior that is often rampant on other trading sites (based on my own direct experience having used them for years). But the real value is from others -- the users of the community -- and the amount of effort they put into helping each other which is evident when you take the time to see it.

Your behavior so far has you "sticking out like a sore thumb" here on futures.io (formerly BMT). That is to say, it is not the normal here. We try to keep the drama to a minimum on this site, so at this point I would kindly ask that you take one last serious look around, and decide what your goal is here. Then either change your attitude to a positive and helpful one, or to leave the site and not return. There are other trading forums out there that thrive on negative posts, and I understand that to some it is more engaging. It takes considerably more effort to be helpful, and it is not for everyone. I struggle with it myself sometimes, even with the writing of this post.

Let us know what you decide.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

Reply With Quote

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