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Deaddogs Swing Trading
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Deaddogs Swing Trading

  #61 (permalink)
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deaddog View Post
Most people get defensive when you challenge their beliefs. Even I get to be a cranky old fart when someone suggests that my system is not as good as I believe it is.

Difference of opinion makes the market.

I can understand that. Although I come from the mindset of steel sharpens steel so I appreciate people who will confront and challenge other people (in the right spirit). I believe that from that challenge both can learn and grow.

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  #62 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
I can understand that. Although I come from the mindset of steel sharpens steel so I appreciate people who will confront and challenge other people (in the right spirit). I believe that from that challenge both can learn and grow.

I agree. I guess sometimes steel gets rusty.

It is hard to find the Truth when you start your search with a preconceived notion of what the Truth will be.
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  #63 (permalink)
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So...out of curiosity I decided to read a conversation about swing trading and what do I find.....myself as the subject of conversation

@deaddog and @tturner86 .... I was under the impression that it was the OWNER of a journal on this site that decided what was an what not was an acceptable content for his/her journal...not the commenters.

Deaddog does not take the hint that there are subject directions that I do not want to pursue in MY journal.

I found this statement particularly disrespectful in this post by @deaddog

https://futures.io/trading-journals/30636-underexposed-canadian-stock-journal-30.html#post430641


Quoting 
Itís too bad because youíre about the only poster here who is willing to discuss trading stocks. Then again a system that doesnít beat the index isnít of much value

That is the reason you were put on ignore for a while.

I do explain a lot of my approach.....far more than I see on the subject of swing trading here, frankly.

But I reiterate....the topic direction of a journal is controlled by the author of the journal....it is the way it should be.

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  #64 (permalink)
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Anyone is welcome here to discuss taking losses, the total return of any system, what the goals and objectives of the system are and whatever other topics one wishes that has to do with swing trading.

To all traders, If you can not beat an index ETF! Why are you trading?

@Underexposed: with all due respect.

It was you who first mentioned that you were well capitalized and made the majority of your living from your investments.
It was you who threw out % return figures
It was you who mentioned that you had hunkered down and not cut your losses quickly during the down turn.
It was you who said that a blind monkey could outperform you system in good times.

I just like to question conventional wisdom. There was no disrespect meant. What you quoted above had a smiley face and was said with a grin.

It is hard to find the Truth when you start your search with a preconceived notion of what the Truth will be.
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  #65 (permalink)
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deaddog View Post
Anyone is welcome here to discuss taking losses, the total return of any system, what the goals and objectives of the system are and whatever other topics one wishes that has to do with swing trading.

To all traders, If you can not beat an index ETF! Why are you trading?

@Underexposed: with all due respect.

It was you who first mentioned that you were well capitalized and made the majority of your living from your investments.
It was you who threw out % return figures
It was you who mentioned that you had hunkered down and not cut your losses quickly during the down turn.
It was you who said that a blind monkey could outperform you system in good times.

I just like to question conventional wisdom. There was no disrespect meant. What you quoted above had a smiley face and was said with a grin.

You don't question....you interrogate. That smiley was interpreted as sarcasm by me. Why would you say such words otherwise?

You demand a clear understanding of one's approach but reveal virtually nothing in return other than you risk little on each trade. You allude vaguely to patterns in a chart but no specifics as to what those patterns are. They must be a state secret.

You are a "nosy parker" to use a British idiom. I have nothing to justify to you and frankly want nothing to do with you in return.


Quoting 
"To all traders, If you can not beat an index ETF! Why are you trading?"

That is an asinine statement...I doubt very much that ANY trader benchmarks their success or failure against an ETF. We all have our own reasons for trading and the fact that it does not meet your standards means less than nothing to me.

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  #66 (permalink)
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Underexposed View Post
That is an asinine statement...I doubt very much that ANY trader benchmarks their success or failure against an ETF. We all have our own reasons for trading and the fact that it does not meet your standards means less than nothing to me.

I do not have time to respond to the rest. But most professional traders and money manages benchmark themselves against an index or ETF. Benchmark Your Returns With Indexes

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  #67 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
I do not have time to respond to the rest. But most professional traders and money manages benchmark themselves against an index or ETF. Benchmark Your Returns With Indexes

not me...could not care less about that...so maybe I am alone in that

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  #68 (permalink)
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Underexposed View Post
not me...could not care less about that...so maybe I am alone in that

It comes down to efficiency. If an actively traded portfolio nets 11% but an index fund would have netted 12.5%. It would have been more efficient to have bought into an index fund instead. The reason is compounded interest and laid out below:


Quoting 
The Power of Compounding
So what does this all add up to, you say? There is a quote you may find useful when explaining the nature of investment performance: "The most powerful force in the universe is compound interest." The man who said this? A moderately successful thinker named Albert Einstein. Let's for a moment, consider two portfolios, each of which begins investing on the same date with the same amount of money 20 years ago:

Portfolio 1 (Rob: 11%) - Beginning Value = $100,000
Portfolio 2 (Alice: 12.5%) - Beginning Value = $100,000

End of Period Values (20 years later):

Portfolio 1 (Rob's): $806,231.15
Portfolio 2 (Alice's): $1,054,509.38

Why such a large difference in ending values? Because Bob earned an annualized 11% return and Alice earned a 12.5% return. That's it - a 1.5% difference came to a cumulative difference of more than $200,000! And if we consider that a 1.5% drag on returns is a conservative estimate of the frictional costs that investors pay every year, we can quickly see how important it is to understand these costs and to keep them as low as possible. (To learn more about compounding interest, see Understanding The Time Value Of Money.)


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  #69 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
It comes down to efficiency. If an actively traded portfolio nets 11% but an index fund would have netted 12.5%. It would have been more efficient to have bought into an index fund instead. The reason is compounded interest and laid out below:

to repeat....I do not compare my results to any ETF....so what??? Which ETF do you want a comparison to anyway....there are several for any given index....TSX capped composite ETF (XIC) was the one I should be compared to

Here are the top 25 stocks in that ETF

ATD.B 01626P403 ALIMENTATION COUCHE TARD INC. CL B 3.00 Consumer Staples
IPPLF 45833V109 INTER PIPELINE LTD 2.40 -
FFH 303901102 FAIRFAX FINANCIAL HOLDINGS SUB VOT 2.11 Financials
IFC 45823T106 INTACT FINANCIAL CORP. 1.90 Financials
GWO 39138C106 GREAT-WEST LIFECO INC. 1.89 Financials
FNV 351858105 FRANCO NEVADA CORP 1.76 Materials
TOU 89156V106 TOURMALINE OIL CORP. 1.67 Energy
PWF 73927C100 POWER FINANCIAL CORP. 1.67 Financials
KEY 493271100 KEYERA CORP. 1.64 Energy
CIX 125491100 CI FINANCIAL CORP. 1.64 Financials
REI.UN 766910103 RIOCAN REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT UNIT 1.63 Financials
OTC 683715106 OPEN TEXT CORPORATION 1.54 Information Technology
BTE 07317Q105 BAYTEX ENERGY CORP 1.50 Energy
MX 59151K108 METHANEX CORP. 1.47 Materials
VET 923725105 VERMILION ENERGY INC. 1.34 Energy
PRE 69480U206 PACIFIC RUBIALES ENERGY CORP 1.30 Energy
ALA 021361100 ALTAGAS LTD. 1.26 Energy
HRUFF 404428203 HANDR REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT TRUST 1.23 Financials
BPY.UN - BROOKFIELD PROPERTY PARTNERS UNITS 1.17 Financials
DOL 25675T107 DOLLARAMA INC. 1.16 Consumer Discretionary
FTT 318071404 FINNING INTERNATIONAL INC. 1.12 Industrials
MEG 552704108 MEG ENERGY CORP. 1.12 Energy
OCX 68272K103 ONEX CORP. (CANADA) 1.09 Financials
PEY 717046106 PEYTO EXPLORATION & DEVELOPMENT CO 1.07 Energy
CSU 21037X100 CONSTELLATION SOFTWARE INC. 1.01 Information Technology

in real life I own exactly one of those companies.....WHY should I benchmark my success or failure against stocks I do not own....makes no sense to me.

I don't pattern any of my trades to an ETF...so calling my system is a waste of time is nonsense...as long as I am satisfied with the results....that is all that matters...to me anyway.

And frankly that is the last I have to say on the subject...

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  #70 (permalink)
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Underexposed View Post


I don't pattern any of my trades to an ETF...so calling my system is a waste of time is nonsense...as long as I am satisfied with the results....that is all that matters...to me anyway.

And frankly that is the last I have to say on the subject...

Given two choices, a system that reqires hours of research and constant monitoring, that is being managed on a daily basis and incurs trading costs nearly every month and has a return of 10%

Vs

A system that buys and holds a well diversified fund of stocks that represent the general market that returns 12.5%.

Would you not agree that one system would be superior to the other and that the time and effort put into one would be a waste of time?

I agree that as long as you are satisfied with the results that is all that matters. I just think it would be nice to have a goal or an objective that was measureable so that you would know how satisfied you are.

I know it is easier to look back at the end of the year and be satisfied with whatever your performance was, pat yourself on the back and say inspite of eveything I did pretty good. That way you do not have to take any responsibility mistakes you may have made or the opportunities you may have missed.

If you have a benchmark then you have to explain to yourself why you did not meet it, review your own performance and take responsibility for your actions.

It is hard to find the Truth when you start your search with a preconceived notion of what the Truth will be.
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