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Day traders
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Day traders

  #21 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Jakarta, Indonesia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: SierraChart
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
BataviaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 23 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 6 given, 8 received


snowbird123 View Post
Exactly, the margins on futures is insane for someone starting out who is a beginner.

what would you consider a reasonable margin for ES? im talkin 1 contract.

regards
BT

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  #22 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 46,238 since Jun 2009
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BataviaTrader View Post
what would you consider a reasonable margin for ES? im talkin 1 contract.

regards
BT

Considering the real value of the contract as of today is roughly 1400 * 50 = 70,000 USD, I would suggest that 10-15k per contract is still absolutely plenty, giving you 7:1 leverage.

Of course, most newbies just want the lowest margin broker they can find, so they can blow out their account faster.

You are asking the wrong question. You are asking "How much money can I make". You should be asking "How much money can I lose?", and that question then leads you to using smart risk decisions, such as not risking more than 1% of your account value in any given trade.

If your account size is 25,000 and you want to use a 5 point stop on the ES, then 5 points * 50 dollars/point = $250 stop per trade, which is 1% of 25,000 account. So to trade 1 contract, you need 25,000.

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  #23 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Jakarta, Indonesia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: SierraChart
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
BataviaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 23 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 6 given, 8 received



Big Mike View Post

You are asking the wrong question. You are asking "How much money can I make".

Mike

missed that?


Anyway, that makes common sense. Im with IB, who requires 4k these days, but I'm more thinking of stocking up 10 before even thinking about going live. No, i'm definitely not looking for those cheap subistitute brokers. I read to much about those on forums.

regards
BT

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  #24 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bala, PA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus, IB
Favorite Futures: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
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Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,276 received


BataviaTrader View Post
missed that?


Anyway, that makes common sense. Im with IB, who requires 4k these days, but I'm more thinking of stocking up 10 before even thinking about going live. No, i'm definitely not looking for those cheap subistitute brokers. I read to much about those on forums.

regards
BT

Unless you have a methodology that is specific to ES, you could open and trade a micro Forex account, and trade very small lots. Of course the more you delay your actual live trading, the more time you'll have to develop a profitable methodology in sim, as long as you can treat the sim like you would treat live trades (that is something I was never able do)

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  #25 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Jakarta, Indonesia
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: SierraChart
Broker/Data: IB
Favorite Futures: ES
 
BataviaTrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 23 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 6 given, 8 received


monpere View Post
Unless you have a methodology that is specific to ES, you could open and trade a micro Forex account, and trade very small lots. Of course the more you delay your actual live trading, the more time you'll have to develop a profitable methodology in sim, as long as you can treat the sim like you would treat live trades (that is something I was never able do)

I am trying to master Ichimoku, which is supposed to work on all markets. Trading a micro account is a nice idea though, I will look into that. Thanks for the idea.

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  #26 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bala, PA, USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Mirus, IB
Favorite Futures: SPY, Oil, Euro
 
monpere's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,858 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 300 given, 3,276 received


BataviaTrader View Post
I am trying to master Ichimoku, which is supposed to work on all markets. Trading a micro account is a nice idea though, I will look into that. Thanks for the idea.

I have a micro Forex account with MB Trading. The commissions are a small percentage of your lot size, with no minimum fee, so commissions are extremely cheap until you start approaching the 50,000 lot size, at that point the commissions become at par with other brokers, and greater then that they actually get more expensive the other brokers. So for learning with small size they make a lot of sense.

My only issue is that, like many Forex brokers, I suspect there may be some funny business with the executions. I have seen many times the market trade through my target price by several ticks, and I did not get a fill. Also, their order management interface is dog slow. It will sometimes take 5 or 6 seconds before their interface actually completes modifying orders. If you are scalper and need quick response when you move your stops etc., that can be a problem. The above 2 issues makes it impractical for scalping for a few pips, but for larger move, longer term methods, I think it's a good and inexpensive approach for learning, or experimenting in the live market.


Last edited by monpere; April 14th, 2012 at 10:54 AM.
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