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Sierra Chart and multiple trading accounts or data feeds


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Sierra Chart and multiple trading accounts or data feeds

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  #1 (permalink)
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Hi guys,

So as I continue to enjoy Sierra Chart I want to set it up so that DTN IQfeed powers my charts and DOM, and TT FIX via Velocity handles order executions.

Sierra has a help document on this:
Sierra Chart - Using Multiple Services or Multiple Trading Accounts at the Same Time

I've read it, but wanted to get some feedback from users on futures.io (formerly BMT) that have actually done this (set up multiple copies of Sierra).

Attached is my current chart. I want to maintain this -- charting + DOM depth + chart trader + DOM on right. I am having a hard time understanding how this will be possible based on the "two installations" idea of Sierra Chart. Where I get hung up is how exactly will the Trading DOM still be attached to the right of my chart? How exactly will chart trader still work?

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  #3 (permalink)
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Hopefully this is what you are asking, but as I understand it, the first instance is set up as normal and connects to the data and feeds the data files. In the first instance you only need to open a chart for each symbol you want to use. The second instance is connected to the broker for trading. In the second instance you set it up like you want for trading, then you change the Alternate Real Time Update Symbol under Chart Settings: Main Settings to the symbols used by the data feed, then check Disable Data File Updating under Chart Settings: Advance Settings for each chart that you have, then change the data directory to the same directory as the data files being updated by the first instance under General Settings: General. Then you just trade through the second instance like normal. I tried to do it with IB and Velocity for the heck of it just to try it out, but I it kept giving me some error I could not resolve. I can't remember what it was at this point. I didn't put alot of time into since it wasn't important to me, but it seemed way more complicated than it should have been.

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  #4 (permalink)
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I trade with multiple copies using IB and IQFeed as vegasfoster has explained. It works fine for me, however, I am getting my market depth updates from IB. As far as I know, your TT Fix would need to power your DOM. Otherwise all would work as you have set up. There has been mention of a new simplified model for this expected in a couple months on the SC support board.

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  #5 (permalink)
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I have IQ and Rithmic set up, works fine. The main thing to worry about is getting the dual feed charts set up correctly so you are not messing up your data files (follow the directions) since they are sharing a data dir.

Once set up, you can have charts that are feed with either feed or both feeds. You can have charts driven by feed1 if the other SC copy 1 is collecting data for the symbol, and you can have charts running for feed2.

The main issue with this model is if you need to set up a new deal feed chart (or change symbol) it is a little cumbersome.

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  #6 (permalink)
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You may not be able to do it at this time if DTN.IQ and TT have different data format. TT's quotes are all integers, so most likely they are different from DTN.IQ.

Price multiply question - Sierra Chart

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That sucks.

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omaha786 View Post
You may not be able to do it at this time if DTN.IQ and TT have different data format. TT's quotes are all integers, so most likely they are different from DTN.IQ.

Price multiply question - Sierra Chart

Crap. That throws a big wrench into things for me. I was really wanting to use SC until MC get's their dom finalized (and maybe even beyond). Now that means I'd have to abandon IQfeed to do it, or abandon chart trader.

Mike

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Big Mike View Post
Crap. That throws a big wrench into things for me. I was really wanting to use SC until MC get's their dom finalized (and maybe even beyond). Now that means I'd have to abandon IQfeed to do it, or abandon chart trader.

Mike

Or TT

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aslan View Post
Or TT

I am not willing to switch brokers just for a platform

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Big Mike View Post
I am not willing to switch brokers just for a platform

I hear you. Since I switched to Rithmic via Optimus, I am very close to dropping IQ, as I really dont need it for much, but it is hard to drop since it is such a good feed for historical data.

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aslan View Post
I hear you. Since I switched to Rithmic via Optimus, I am very close to dropping IQ, as I really dont need it for much, but it is hard to drop since it is such a good feed for historical data.

As a SC customer, don't you get free historical data thru SC as an option? Does anyone know the source of the data?

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As a SC customer, don't you get free historical data thru SC as an option? Does anyone know the source of the data?

Yes, there is something included, but not sure where the SC hist data comes from, as I use the feed hist data.

I need the properly marked data for bid/ask cum delta. I have used IQ for that, but the Rithmic feed thru Optimus has data correctly marked, which I have been using all of this month. The main issue for me in the short term is to make sure that feed continues to work, and that the historical data for that feed works (it currently only goes back maybe 30 days).

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As a SC customer, don't you get free historical data thru SC as an option? Does anyone know the source of the data?

Mike

I use OpenEcry so they just store OpenEcry data as history data. I don't think this data is open for non-openecry customer though.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Mike, a solution (a hack) is posted in that SC thread using price chart overlay. Essentially, the DOM depth has to come from the trading service, in your case TT. The chart data can come from a different feed such as IQ.

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Big Mike View Post
As a SC customer, don't you get free historical data thru SC as an option? Does anyone know the source of the data?

Mike


aslan View Post
Yes, there is something included, but not sure where the SC hist data comes from, as I use the feed hist data.

I need the properly marked data for bid/ask cum delta. I have used IQ for that, but the Rithmic feed thru Optimus has data correctly marked, which I have been using all of this month. The main issue for me in the short term is to make sure that feed continues to work, and that the historical data for that feed works (it currently only goes back maybe 30 days).

I am not sure, but I know the IB fill is based on 30 second data while the TT backfill is true tick data, so it may be broker dependent. TT fill only goes back 60 days though. Both are sufficient for my purposes, but if you are doing systems backtesting then you will probably need a separate data source to suite your needs. But yeah, this and the performance reporting they need to fix ASAP.

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vegasfoster View Post
I am not sure, but I know the IB fill is based on 30 second data while the TT backfill is true tick data, so it may be broker dependent. TT fill only goes back 60 days though. Both are sufficient for my purposes, but if you are doing systems backtesting then you will probably need a separate data source to suite your needs. But yeah, this and the performance reporting they need to fix ASAP.

I meant the SC-provided backfill, wondering what the source is for this.

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omaha786 View Post
Mike, a solution (a hack) is posted in that SC thread using price chart overlay. Essentially, the DOM depth has to come from the trading service, in your case TT. The chart data can come from a different feed such as IQ.

But if I understand correctly, you still can't use chart trader with this. Right? The only way to use chart trader would be to not use IQfeed.

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I meant the SC-provided backfill, wondering what the source is for this.

Mike

My thought was that it was provided by SC, because when I load a range chart in NT I get no historical backfill for either, but with SC I get historical backfill for both. Unless they have it programmed to pull 30 second data from IB when you pull up a range chart or something.

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Mike,

What do you need from IQ? Does IQ data need to be on same chart?

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aslan View Post
Mike,

What do you need from IQ? Does IQ data need to be on same chart?

I'd like my chart powered by IQfeed. I'd like to trade from my chart. I'm asking too much apparently

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Big Mike View Post
I'd like my chart powered by IQfeed. I'd like to trade from my chart. I'm asking too much apparently

Mike

Well, if it was me, I would want to trade off my brokers data, which is faster than IQ, but backfill with IQ and use IQ for things like Delta calc, which does not need to be directly on the trade chart.

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aslan View Post
Well, if it was me, I would want to trade off my brokers data, which is faster than IQ, but backfill with IQ and use IQ for things like Delta calc, which does not need to be directly on the trade chart.

I agree TT is faster than IQfeed. But I didn't think it would be possible to mix TT and IQfeed on a single chart, please tell... you see my screen shot in post #1, top panel can be TT real-time + IQfeed backfill, bottom panel is CD and needs to be IQfeed only.

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Big Mike View Post
But if I understand correctly, you still can't use chart trader with this. Right? The only way to use chart trader would be to not use IQfeed.

Mike

I think you can.

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Big Mike View Post
I agree TT is faster than IQfeed. But I didn't think it would be possible to mix TT and IQfeed on a single chart, please tell... you see my screen shot in post #1, top panel can be TT real-time + IQfeed backfill, bottom panel is CD and needs to be IQfeed only.

Mike

The chart panel and indicators can be from IQfeed using Study/Price overlay (in fact, overlay is not necessary if IQ and TT have the same data format). the DOM depth has to be from TT.

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Big Mike View Post
I agree TT is faster than IQfeed. But I didn't think it would be possible to mix TT and IQfeed on a single chart, please tell... you see my screen shot in post #1, top panel can be TT real-time + IQfeed backfill, bottom panel is CD and needs to be IQfeed only.

Mike

I'm also not sure mixing TT chart and IQfeed chart is smart. Just thinking out loud, when my 6 range bar closes on price panel it will force a close of panel 2 (iqfeed), which may or may not be in sync because the iqfeed data is slightly slower....

I know I could simplify and just use TT, but then I am knowingly using an inferior product for charting, and I dislike that notion.

It seems like Sierra Chart really should just fix this. The way I understand the issue, TT delivers quotes in whole integers - no decimals. So they simply need to add a new feature when using FIX to add a price scale to the quotes... right? It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult. That seems to be what the thread on SC support was about, anyway. Although to be honest, I still don't understand how that solves the IQfeed charting + TT execution problem. Maybe it doesn't.

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omaha786 View Post
The chart panel and indicators can be from IQfeed using Study/Price overlay (in fact, overlay is not necessary if IQ and TT have the same data format). the DOM depth has to be from TT.

OK, I am still a novice at Sierra so forgive me. Your saying I can use Study/Price 'indicator' to drive panel 2 off an entirely different instance (different install directory) chart? Because panel 1 would need to be TT FIX to get DOM depth + chart trader, so in order for panel 2 to be IQfeed, the way I understand it I would need to run two copies of Sierra Chart concurrently. I didn't realize they could communicate with each other.


Quoting 
if IQ and TT have the same data format

I believe they do not, per the SC support thread. TT has the unusual situation of quoting in all integers.

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You are getting a little out of my comfort zone since I am using a single feed now, but I am sure someone else can help get it right.

The key is your trading chart needs to be driven by TT (either using the alternate symbol if IQ is driving or straight up with the regular TT symbol) in order to trade. The multiply issue mentioned above might mean a TT/IQ chart is not possible if I read it right. If so, then just drive the trade chart straight up with TT. Your longer term charts, if you use them, can then be driven by IQ only.

You should be able to build your Delta on another chart that is IQ only. You then use the overlay studies to show that IQ Delta on your TT chart. You should already be using the overlay in some fashion to do delta, you just now pull it from a IQ driven chart and display in TT chart.

To make this work, you need to run one SC that gets the IQ data you want. It just needs simple charts that run so the data is being collected. Then run another instance of SC that uses the same data dir but connects to TT. The multiple instance thing is a pain, but does work pretty well.

Hope that helps.

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aslan View Post
You should be able to build your Delta on another chart that is IQ only. You then use the overlay studies to show that IQ Delta on your TT chart. You should already be using the overlay in some fashion to do delta, you just now pull it from a IQ driven chart and display in TT chart.

To make this work, you need to run one SC that gets the IQ data you want. It just needs simple charts that run so the data is being collected. Then run another instance of SC that uses the same data dir but connects to TT. The multiple instance thing is a pain, but does work pretty well.

Hope that helps.

So your saying that:

Instance #1 - IQfeed, 1 tick chart for cumulative delta purpose only
Instance #2 - TT FIX, my normal charts (ie: 6 range) where Panel #1 is driven by TT, which would of course mean DOM and chart trader work, but Panel #2 is somehow driven from Instance #1?

I guess the part I didn't realize earlier was that two separate installations of Sierra Chart could talk to each other.

The second concern I posted a few posts back --- since we know TT feed is faster, when a 6 range bar closes in panel 1 of the TT FIX chart it would make the panel 2 iqfeed chart close the bar as well, but really not all the CD would be 'accounted for' yet because of the slight delay/out-of-sync issue between TT and IQfeed, right? So this seems like a bad idea, but maybe in practice it makes no discernible difference.

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Big Mike View Post
OK, I am still a novice at Sierra so forgive me. Your saying I can use Study/Price 'indicator' to drive panel 2 off an entirely different instance (different install directory) chart? Because panel 1 would need to be TT FIX to get DOM depth + chart trader, so in order for panel 2 to be IQfeed, the way I understand it I would need to run two copies of Sierra Chart concurrently. I didn't realize they could communicate with each other.



I believe they do not, per the SC support thread. TT has the unusual situation of quoting in all integers.

Mike

You need to install two instance of SC, say: C:\SC-IQ and C:\SC-TT
Then in the global settings - > general settings, of both SC instances to point to the the same data folder, say C:\SC-DATA

In SC-IQ, all you need to do is put some symbols in Edit -> Intraday File Update list, then connect to the IQfeed (then minimize it, you don't need to see anything in the IQfeed instance).

Now in SC-TT instance, you can open charts with data updated by the IQfeed instance.

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Thanks guys. I will try this on Sunday evening and see where I end up

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omaha786 View Post
Now in SC-TT instance, you can open charts with data updated by the IQfeed instance.

Great! But can I use chart trader and have accurate cumulative delta, that is the million dollar question.

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Big Mike View Post
Great! But can I use chart trader and have accurate cumulative delta, that is the million dollar question.

Mike

I think you can. You build your normal chart without DOM using the IQ data in SC-TT instance (chart1). In this chart, use a correct price multiplier so that the chart will be displayed same as TT format.

Then open a TT chart with the chartDOM (chart2). Now, overlay the chart1 onto chart2 and display it as the <Main Price Graph> so that the chart graph displayed in chart2 is actually chart1 graph. The chart2 is the chart you are going to use for trading (chartDOM).

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omaha786 View Post
I think you can. You build your normal chart without DOM using the IQ data in SC-TT instance (chart1). In this chart, use a correct price multiplier so that the chart will be displayed same as TT format.

Then open a TT chart with the chartDOM (chart2). Now, overlay the chart1 onto chart2 and display it as the <Main Price Graph> so that the chart graph displayed in chart2 is actually chart1 graph. The chart2 is the chart you are going to sue for trading (chartDOM).

OK, will try and see on Sunday hopefully.

Thx.

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The multiple instance stuff is confusing. THe first instance is really running just to collect data, which is written to the data dir. THe second instance also needs to have a chart for the same symbol, and it will pull data from the data dir (this chart should not update the data file per directions). The chart in the second instance is where you will build your delta. The overlay, then pulls data from the instance 2 chart onto your TT chart. The overlay uses timestamps to collate and pull the correct data.

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@Big Mike u have to do like @omaha786 , then in TT istance you have to set a chart with IQ symbol using Price Multiplier x100, under chart setting, and Tick Size, Price Display to 1


then open a new chart with TT symbol, you have to set in chart setting Disable Data File Updating
,
then you have to Overlay the Price Chart with the IQ one and set to use it as main chart, then Overlay all the other studies u like from the IQ chart, now u have IQ feed chart data and trading order thru TT.

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@Big Mike, did you try? How did it go?

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LukeGeniol View Post
@Big Mike, did you try? How did it go?

I have not, unfortunately. I've been out of my office all day today on errands related to my home remodeling, but I will try to do this tomorrow as my trial of Sierra has now expired so I need to get it working via Velocity asap

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FYI, I got my second computer setup for SC, but figured out the "Free" Velocity version of SC will not connect to IB, which I was planning to continue to use to hedge any trades in the event I lost my Velocity connection and for "free" Index data feeds. Guess I will have to switch back to Ninja. Ahem, NO! But I will have to continue paying $26, which I suppose is not entirely unreasonable. This may also affect anyone planning to use free Velocity with a secondary data feed such as IQ Feed. Unless I am doing something wrong?

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vegasfoster View Post
FYI, I got my second computer setup for SC, but figured out the "Free" Velocity version of SC will not connect to IB, which I was planning to continue to use to hedge any trades in the event I lost my Velocity connection and for "free" Index data feeds. Guess I will have to switch back to Ninja. Ahem, NO! But I will have to continue paying $26, which I suppose is not entirely unreasonable. This may also affect anyone planning to use free Velocity with a secondary data feed such as IQ Feed. Unless I am doing something wrong?

Ja, you cannot connect to other brokers datafeed with velocity password, dunno if this is also for non broker data like IQFeed.

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Hi

see here:

Sierra Chart - Using Multiple Services or Multiple Trading Accounts at the Same Time
Sierra Chart - Chart Settings

i'm trying , seems works well

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Sierra will be doing a more advanced webinar today @ 4:30PM Eastern, check it out:



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I have a question for those using multiple services. Mike, it seems you have the setup I am using now, TT with DTN (from what I read here.) When a contract rolls over, do you have to manually make all the required field changes? Seems somewhat tedious since there is the background DTN symbol, and both symbols in the a single chart (symbol & alt symbol.) Then all the rest of the different time frame charts that one may have. Just curious if anyone has discovered a quicker way. It seems that if TT had a front month contract like DTN we wouldn't have to alter anything. Maybe TT could do that for us. Seems like things would be a little easier from the maintenance end if that was done. Thanks

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