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SC and Options on Micro-Emini Futures


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SC and Options on Micro-Emini Futures

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  #1 (permalink)
ondafringe
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 
 
Posts: 101 since Jul 2012
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This question is specific to Sierra Chart/Denali users trading ES/MES or NQ/MNQ.

I am looking to use ES/MES options as a hedge should I decide to hold ES/MES futures over the weekend.

When it comes to trading options, SC leaves a lot to be desired. However, for simply buying Call(s)/Put(s) to use as a hedge, it's good enough.

Using SC's "Find Symbol" (File>Find Symbol), I can locate the available options contracts for ES, but I don't see anything for MES (or even MNQ, for that matter).

I can get a chart/trading window for a specific MES options contract by manually entering the product code for that contract, so it seems odd that I can't find the entire listing for MES.

A few days ago, I asked SC support about this, but apparently SC is being SC, in that they just ignore questions they don't want to answer, as they did with my question.

Does anyone know where the MES options listings are hiding?

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  #2 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
Market Wizard
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Have you looked some of the details about the Micro E-mini options here?
https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/micro-e-mini-options.html

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  #3 (permalink)
ondafringe
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 
 
Posts: 101 since Jul 2012
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trendisyourfriend View Post
Have you looked some of the details about the Micro E-mini options here?
https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/micro-e-mini-options.html

Yes, I have that link, as well as many others. That is how I was able to determine the product code for a specific MES option and open a trade window in SC.

I was hoping another SC/Denali user would check to see if they were able to find the MES options listings. If no one else can find them, it may be a glitch in the SC software and/or, for some reason, Denali isn't returning those listings.

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  #4 (permalink)
 LDog 
Lexington KY/USA
 
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I have never looked at futures options on SC, but I see what you're saying (no MES or MNQ seen under Futures Options - CME (Denali Data)).

But I can select the F.US.MESU21 Futures contract and a 'Get Options' button is available. Clicking that give a list of Options - if you scroll down you'll the Calls and Puts for MES).
The same thing works for MNQ.

Now I don't know what to do with this list, but maybe you do

Hope that helps (probably not, but thought I'd give it a try).

Good Luck!

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  #5 (permalink)
ondafringe
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 
 
Posts: 101 since Jul 2012
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LDog View Post
I have never looked at futures options on SC, but I see what you're saying (no MES or MNQ seen under Futures Options - CME (Denali Data)).

But I can select the F.US.MESU21 Futures contract and a 'Get Options' button is available. Clicking that give a list of Options - if you scroll down you'll the Calls and Puts for MES).
The same thing works for MNQ.

Now I don't know what to do with this list, but maybe you do

Hope that helps (probably not, but thought I'd give it a try).

Good Luck!


Well, that's interesting, but also a little strange. Those option listings aren't using the correct product code, none of them have an associated expiration date, and if I try to open a chart, all I get are error messages about invalid symbols.

For a company like @SierraChart, that doesn't hesitate to brag about their programming competence, or make disparaging remarks about the sloppy programming practices of other companies, I'm surprised they refused to respond to my post on their support board about this problem because it makes them look bad. Granted, most people using SC are not trading options, but still...

I have two years invested in SC and really like their software. However, if I can't do something as simple as buying a put or call as a hedge without paying for a second data feed, that may force me back to using Rithmic with a different trading platform.

Anyway, I do appreciate your help and thanks for taking the time to look at that for me.

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  #6 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
Market Wizard
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ondafringe View Post
Well, that's interesting, but also a little strange. Those option listings aren't using the correct product code, none of them have an associated expiration date, and if you try to open a chart, all you get are error messages about invalid symbols.

For a company like @SierraChart, that doesn't hesitate to brag about their programming competence, or make disparaging remarks about the sloppy programming practices of other companies, I'm surprised they refused to respond to my post on their support board about this problem because it makes them look bad. Granted, most people using SC are not trading options, but still...

I have two years invested in SC and really like their software. However, if I can't do something as simple as buying a put or call as a hedge without paying for a second data feed, that may force me back to using Rithmic with a different trading platform.

Anyway, I do appreciate your help and thanks for taking the time to look at that for me.

Do you have an idea about the fees to trade these options? How do you plan to use them to hedge your position?

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  #7 (permalink)
 josh 
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FWIW, I see MES options, using CQG data. I know that's not your use case, but I wanted to put it out there. And yes, I can get data for them as well.

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  #8 (permalink)
ondafringe
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 
 
Posts: 101 since Jul 2012
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trendisyourfriend View Post
Do you have an idea about the fees to trade these options? How do you plan to use them to hedge your position?

Let me preface my answer by saying, two years in, I am still learning. That said, some aspects of what I present may be partially, or wholly, incorrect, even though I believe them to be correct based on my current understanding.

I trade through AMP. From what I understand, buying put(s)/call(s) generates the same commission and routing fee as a futures contract, but exchange fees may be different.

At this point, I only trade long, so my interest in options on futures is to partially hedge a long futures position held over the weekend while the market is closed and my Stop canít protect me. So buy a Put(s) on Friday afternoon before the close. And assuming a non-eventful weekend, sell the Put(s) on Sunday afternoon after the Globex open.

However, if some national or international incident happens over the weekend that causes the market to open well below my Stop on Sunday afternoon. Hold the Put(s) until I make a determination as to the best course of action.

If I decide to hold the Put until expiration and the option is ITM, I would settle into a short futures position at the given strike with exposure to the market, which, undoubtedly, would require the requisite margin on a new futures position on top of the margin required for the initial position. What Iím not certain about is whether that margin is required immediately when I buy the option or only upon expiration.

Another thing to consider: Which option should be bought as a hedge -- quarterly, monthly, weekly? Or in the case of ES, Monday and Wednesday weeklies are also available. Plus, quarterlies are American, while all the rest are European, which affects when you can exercise. At present, it seems weeklies would be better for a weekend hedge, but still working that out.

What strike to buy on Friday would be determined by how much risk you are willing to accept. For instance, if youíve been in the futures position for a week and are up 100 points, you may be willing to risk half of your open equity and buy a strike 50 points lower. If you just entered the position that Friday and are only up 5 points or so, you may want to buy a strike only 25 points lower.

So there is a lot to consider, to include finding the sweet spot which allows enough room for normal price fluctuations, which can be extreme, without prematurely knocking you out of your position.

Anyway, thatís the general idea.

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  #9 (permalink)
ondafringe
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 
 
Posts: 101 since Jul 2012
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josh View Post
FWIW, I see MES options, using CQG data. I know that's not your use case, but I wanted to put it out there. And yes, I can get data for them as well.

Yes, although I am using Denali for data, I'm using CQG for routing, and I see those, as well, as @LDog pointed out. But if I try to open a chart on one of them, I just get multiple invalid symbol errors.

Thanks for checking!

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  #10 (permalink)
 trendisyourfriend 
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
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Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
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ondafringe View Post
Let me preface my answer by saying, two years in, I am still learning. That said, some aspects of what I present may be partially, or wholly, incorrect, even though I believe them to be correct based on my current understanding.
...

It is not SC but i found out a video that explain how to trade options with Ninjatrader. Maybe this can help you find what you want.:

https://ninjatrader.com/blog/what-are-options-on-e-mini-sp-500-futures/

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