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SC Direct Order Routing


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SC Direct Order Routing

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  #11 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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josh View Post
What exactly is the advantage of SC using CME direct order routing? Is it that they aren't going through a FIX gateway (they currently route through TT?) like they currently are, and thus will have lower latency, presumably better reliability, etc.? I know they make good software, but I've read that thread, and I'm not too keen on being a beta tester Besides, it won't work for me as I use CQG and need more than CME markets (OSE, which SC has emphatically said they'll never support).

I think that "CME direct order routing" just means that you use SC's order routing instead of, for instance, CQG's, from within the SC platform. Just a different routing firm (SC and not CQG), not a difference in kind. Also, it's a good slogan.

It may be better, which SC says it will be, because of greater reliability of the SC solution. SC has been grumbling for years about having to track down user issues that didn't come from their software, particularly with Rithmic but also CQG. I think they just decided they would see if they can do a better job.

Is there a user reason to want their solution? Rithmic had a well-advertised couple of recent issues, and TT had a couple, and while I don't remember any from CQG, SC has been saying there were problems for some time. One thing I do remember from the thread from SC is that they will recognize OCO pairs without requiring additional margin, which they say CQG does not.

But I think that some of the reason for a user to be interested in the SC solution is simply wanting something technically strong, and having bought into the SC story about how bad the others are. Except for the actual epic fails (Rithmic's come to mind), I'm not sure that most users have had actual problems that are worse than the occasional glitch that systems seem always to have. I know that there may be users who strongly disagree with this, because of issues they did have, and I'm not minimizing anyone's experience. But problems with trade routing firms don't generally show up that much on this forum, so I imagine they aren't all that bad for the most part.

One obvious positive is that if you don't have two firms to deal with if something goes wrong, you don't have finger pointing between them to avoid responsibility, which is a plus.

Will I give it a try? Sure. I buy into the SC story of technical excellence too, and they have shown it over time. Do I expect anything miraculous? No. What would be miraculous order routing, anyway? I expect it will work, and I hope that it will consistently reliable, and the kind of thing that you never have to even think about.

If someone wants other markets than what SC will support, then they should not switch, obviously.

And about the beta tester thing... I agree with @josh. I'm not going to jump into it either. No software is perfect right out of the gate, no matter what testing it went through or who wrote it.

But eventually, I probably will.

Bob.

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-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #12 (permalink)
ondafringe
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 
 
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SMCJB View Post
Know nothing about SC but have been with Advantage for over 15 years and always been impressed.

This doesn't sound impressive:


Quoting 
An Overnight Open Position Charge will apply if the account carries overnight positions. The charge will be equal to an annualized rate of 8% multiplied by the total exchange minimum maintenance margin requirement and will apply to open positions in all contracts.

https://www.advantagefutures.com/open-an-account/commissions/

Is that normal?

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  #13 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
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ondafringe View Post
This doesn't sound impressive:

https://www.advantagefutures.com/open-an-account/commissions/

Is that normal?

I don't pay that, no idea whether they would charge you (or anybody else) it. Obviously it is on their site but it's an online calculator/estimator. I pay slightly more than the calculator says but I do hold significant overnight positions. It does cost a broker a lot more (in required capital) to hold overnight positions that to day trade. Talk to your salesperson. If you need a contact DM me.

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  #14 (permalink)
 qsceszwasdx 
Taipei Taiwan
 
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josh View Post
What exactly is the advantage of SC using CME direct order routing? Is it that they aren't going through a FIX gateway (they currently route through TT?) like they currently are, and thus will have lower latency, presumably better reliability, etc.? I know they make good software, but I've read that thread, and I'm not too keen on being a beta tester Besides, it won't work for me as I use CQG and need more than CME markets (OSE, which SC has emphatically said they'll never support).

Hi, @josh, may I ask what data feed are you using for CME with SC? Denali or CQG?

And what data feed are you using or used(I saw some of your post discuss about HSI in past) for HKEX? SC or CQG?

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  #15 (permalink)
 josh 
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qsceszwasdx View Post
Hi, @josh, may I ask what data feed are you using for CME with SC? Denali or CQG?

And what data feed are you using or used(I saw some of your post discuss about HSI in past) for HKEX? SC or CQG?

I only use CQG .. for CME, OSE, HKEX (though obviously in the US right now we can't trade HSI).

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  #16 (permalink)
 steve2222 
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josh View Post
I only use CQG .. for CME, OSE, HKEX (though obviously in the US right now we can't trade HSI).

RE HKEX - really? What broker? AMP re-enabled trading back in April: https://support.ampglobal.com/hc/en-us/articles/360061778393-Hong-Kong-HKEX-Trading-has-been-Re-Enabled

Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr, Danish Physicist
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  #17 (permalink)
 josh 
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steve2222 View Post
RE HKEX - really? What broker? AMP re-enabled trading back in April: https://support.ampglobal.com/hc/en-us/articles/360061778393-Hong-Kong-HKEX-Trading-has-been-Re-Enabled

Yes, my broker is AMP, and yes, they re-enabled trading at that time, but as that page explains, futures are included in the list of products banned from trading by U.S. citizens. Since you are in New Zealand, you're free to trade it, but in the US, we're banned from doing so. I have data on the HSI, but I can't actually get an order routed. I get a reject when trying to do so. It's a real shame, because I did love to trade it!

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  #18 (permalink)
 qsceszwasdx 
Taipei Taiwan
 
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josh View Post
I only use CQG .. for CME, OSE, HKEX (though obviously in the US right now we can't trade HSI).

Thanks your reply @josh, it is really surprise for me that you still use CQG for CME which SC said they will terminate.

Don't you meet any issue with CQG particularly that chart only load 5 days tick data?

Below is from https://www.sierrachart.com/SupportBoard.php?ThreadID=63670

Summary: CQG provides 30 day of tick data on current contracts, but Sierra is requesting and downloading only 5 days

Sierra has given us fair notice in https://www.sierrachart.com/SupportBoard.php?ThreadID=58506 and via many other means that if not paying for and using a Sierra data feed "When using CQG data, there will be 5 days of tick by tick data and 1 Minute data for the prior time period and for current contracts only".

a) It is fair that Sierra doesn't provide data that isn't there in CQG for no payment
b) It is questionable why Sierra would refuse to download CQG even when available from CQG. The sole reason I am guessing is to push users to Sierra's own product. The difference between 5 day and 30 day can mean the difference of not usable vs. usable for many users (it is for me)

Now some details:
I am AMP customer, using CQG feed. I took the information provided by Sierra on face value, and dutifully signed up for a Sierra a/c that I am paying for (I don't like it but respect Sierra's decision to not provide discounted access through AMP), and Denali feed, and exchange fees that I have to pay for again (I will still keep my CQG/AMP feed and exchange subscription in case I need to bypass Sierra and log into CQG web to close positions in an emergency or just to have mobile access).

I keep seeing everywhere that CQG provides 30 day of tick data, contrary to Sierra information of 5 day. So I used a well known competing charting platform that has no historical data, connected to CQG and requested 50 day of tick data on EPM21. As advertised, 30 day worth of tick data appeared in chart.

At this point I thought well, Sierra documentation is incorrect. Testing time: I made a backup of my data folder, disabled sierra feed in settings, and requested 50 day of tick data on EPM21. And there was bars on chart! But soon it was clear it was a mix of tick and minute data. True tick data for the last 5 days, and all data before 5 days is minute resolution, with Sierra providing no warning of it being so. This confusing. Why would CQG provide tick data for 30 day to Platform X but not to Sierra? Time for a closer look in the message logs?


F.US.EPM21 2500 Trades #2 | Reloading chart. | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.063
F.US.EPM21 2500 Trades #2 | Currently no data in file to display. Will start historical data download and real-time updates. File: C:\tools\SierraChart_cqg\Data\F.US.EPM21.scid | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.074
CQG WebAPI | Starting real-time market data updates for: F.US.EPM21. ID: 1 Service code: cqg | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.285
CQG WebAPI | Sending symbol resolution request for F.US.EPM21. ID: 679402 | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.285
CQG WebAPI | Requesting security definition data for: F.US.EPM21. ID: 1 | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.285
CQG WebAPI | Using primary service for historical data for F.US.EPM21 | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.285
Starting DelayedDownloadMonitoringTimer | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.286
Starting HDTimeoutTimer | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.286
Added historical Intraday data request for F.US.EPM21 to the queue. | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.286
Intraday data recording state for symbol F.US.EPM21 is set to download 'Pending'. | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.286
Triggering next historical data download in queue. | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.286
Delaying start of download for F.US.EPM21 | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.286
CQG WebAPI | Received symbol resolution report for symbol F.US.EPM21. Search Symbol: F.US.EPM21. Request ID: 679402. Contract ID: 1. | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.304
CQG WebAPI | Requesting market data for F.US.EPM21 | 2021-04-25 10:35:06.305
HD Request # 1 | Downloading Intraday chart data for F.US.EPM21 to the file F.US.EPM21.scid. Service: cqg | 2021-04-25 10:35:11.284
HD Request # 1 | Performing multistage download. Downloading Minute data first. | 2021-04-25 10:35:11.284
HD Request # 1 | Download start date-time: 1993-12-08 09:35:11.000000. File last date-time: 00:00:00.000000 | 2021-04-25 10:35:11.284
HD Request # 1 | Disabling Intraday chart updating for symbol. | 2021-04-25 10:35:11.284
HD Request # 1 | Requesting historical Minute data. | 2021-04-25 10:35:11.284
HD Request # 1 | Receiving Intraday data for F.US.EPM21 starting at 2021-01-25 09:35:00.000000 | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.914
HD Request # 1 | Timestamp of first Intraday data file record written: 2021-01-25 09:35:00.000000 | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.927
HD Request # 1 | Received 87055 records from 2021-01-25 09:35:00.000000 to 2021-04-23 15:59:00.000000 (88.2 days) and wrote 87055 records for F.US.EPM21 | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.945
HD Request # 1 | Completion time: 1s | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.946
HD Request # 1 | Intraday data download complete for F.US.EPM21. Unique request ID: 1 | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.946
Added historical Intraday data request for F.US.EPM21 to the queue. | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.946
Triggering next historical data download in queue. | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.946

HD Request # 2 | Downloading Intraday chart data for F.US.EPM21 to the file F.US.EPM21.scid. Service: cqg | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.947
HD Request # 2 | Rounding start date-time down to the minute: 1993-12-08 09:35:00.000 | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.949
HD Request # 2 | Download start date-time: 1993-12-08 09:35:00.000000. File last date-time: 00:00:00.000000 | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.949
HD Request # 2 | Requesting historical Tick data. | 2021-04-25 10:35:12.949
HD Request # 2 | Receiving Intraday data for F.US.EPM21 starting at 2021-04-20 10:35:11.172000 | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.037

HD Request # 2 | Rounded first tick record Date-time down to minute: 2021-04-20 10:35:00 | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.037
HD Request # 2 | Truncated Intraday data file at 2021-04-20 10:35:00 while receiving initial tick data during multistage download. | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.038
HD Request # 2 | Date-time after truncate 2021-04-20 10:34:00 | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.038
HD Request # 2 | Timestamp of first Intraday data file record written: 2021-04-20 10:35:11.172000 | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.044
HD Request # 2 | Received 2950600 records from 2021-04-20 10:35:11.172000 to 2021-04-23 15:59:59.268000 (3.2 days) and wrote 2950600 records for F.US.EPM21 | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.302
HD Request # 2 | Add time&sales data | Remembered last file record date-time: 2021-04-23 20:59:59.268000 | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.305
HD Request # 2 | Completion time: 31s | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.305
HD Request # 2 | Intraday data download complete for F.US.EPM21. Unique request ID: 1 | 2021-04-25 10:35:43.305

So Sierra would request and download 5 day worth of tick data (weekend and exchange holiday included, so it can be really less than 5 days <- 100% unusable data), but 30 day is available.

Why would you guys do that?

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  #19 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Hi @qsceszwasdx, just as an FYI, I found your yellow text on a white background (which I use) to be unreadable. I wasn't even sure there was text there until I hit the Quote button and saw that you had put something there.

Maybe if someone uses a dark background it's different, but I thought I'd let you know.

You can leave it as it is, of course, it's up to you. But if you want to change the color, you only have 24 hours to edit a post before it's set in stone.

Bob.

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-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #20 (permalink)
 steve2222 
Auckland, New Zealand
 
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josh View Post
Yes, my broker is AMP, and yes, they re-enabled trading at that time, but as that page explains, futures are included in the list of products banned from trading by U.S. citizens. Since you are in New Zealand, you're free to trade it, but in the US, we're banned from doing so. I have data on the HSI, but I can't actually get an order routed. I get a reject when trying to do so. It's a real shame, because I did love to trade it!

Hi Josh,

That message is a little misleading as the bit about banning US citizens is from the original message when they diasbled the HKFE.

Note sure who your broker is, but AMP re-enabled trading for *all* citizens worldwide incl US citiziens.

Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr, Danish Physicist
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