Apologize for opening a new thread, I believe the info requested should already be nested somewhere here at futures.io but I was not able to find them...
I'm not American and also not very familiar with all the brokers and discount brokers available on the market.
I'm currently testing Sierra and for the time being it seems to me a very nice platform, very little resource consuming, very customizable and capable to deal with ticks and volumes data.
From what I read here and on their website, the best and most user friendly datafeed for thier platform is their own datafeed.
First question: Does anyone ever compared the 2 combinations:
a) Sierra with Sierra Realtime datafeed and
b) Sierra with CQG data provided by a broker
and what were the results?
I ask it since I found pretty discounted options available from, for example, AMP (Sierra package 3 + CQG data @ zero monthly fees, or package 5 + CQG data @ 25$/month), however I couldn't find any broker offering Sierra AND their own datafeed. Am I wrong? (that was the second question, by the way).
Purchasing subscription and datafeed from Sierra will be at least a couple dozens of $/month more expensive. It's not that we become poor just for that few hundreds of $$ more per year, but mainly for sake of curiosity I was trying to understand better the situation.
The next, third and fouth questions, are maybe the ones that most puzzle me... what are, in few words, the advantages of using CTS with Sierra?
I admit that I don't know the products and services offered by CTS... I assumed it was a datafeed and a platform (T4).
But Sierra is a platform itself, and I found threads where Sierra is not exactly advising to use the CTS datafeed.
If this is the case, what advantages could possible give me their combination, that seems to be popular among some users? (third question)
However I see sometimes CTS advertised as a "low latency order routing"...
Is it something that I need? I mean, without CTS if I connect Sierra with IB, AMP, Optimus, etc what's going to happen? My orders will reach the market a few milliseconds later? And if yes.... why?
In other words, the multi-faceted fourth question is maybe just an extension of the third... what's exactly CTS and who would benefit from their use?
Let me just address some of your questions. First, we all use third-party connections for the most part. Some broker do use their own API, but we use CTS, CQG, and Rithmic. From a latency standpoint, each feed many functions differently because of your connections, but for the most part, all three provide a solid foundation for execution and latency.
CTS was offered recently with SC because SC made their own configuration for bracket server side OCO. They like this solution because they provide their own data, but the execution is via CTS.
If you use CQG via Optimus/AMP you can use the CQG credential and log in to many CQG platform for free, such as their desktop. iPhone, etc.
Rithmic allows you to connect to Sierra and their own platform R Trader where you can see (in my opinion) better accounting for your trades.
Essentially, each one offers a different advantage, so there is no "best", you just have to choose what is right for you.
Best,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following 4 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
I only can talk about my experience and facts that happened when we used CTS as datafeed for Sierra.
First of, we finally broke up with Ninja and went to Sierra about a year ago. We all know, that Sierra is one of the very best platforms, so i'm not gonna praise them.
We started with AMP Futures as a brokerage and CTS as a datafeed for Sierra. The whole setup went thru Optimus Futures, Matt is a very good adviser and helped us to choose the right broker/data for our needs, i really suggest to talk to him first, before you make any decisions.
We wanted a very fast execution for our futures day trading and CTS was the best choice. Yes, CTS has an excellent and lightning fast execution rate, but.... on the downside, we ran into the same problem twice and we decided not to stay with CTS anymore.
What happened is that we cancelled a pending order, so it correctly disappeared from the platform and showed no active orders at the broker (AMP), but the cancelled order stayed active, opened and as a runaway position was just running in the "background", so AMP could only see it after their daily statement came out. It was too late already, the trade went into a decent loss, but AMP was able close it next day. After the investigation we were told, that CTS's data server failed to report the cancelled order, failed to report the open order and then the open position to AMP, therefore AMP couldn't see or do anything until the next day, even if their statement came out earlier.
Of course, CTS couldn't do anything, they said they didn't have access to our account.
This issue happened again with another instrument, we cancelled a pending order, AMP didn't see any open orders or positions, but when AMP's daily statement came out, it was showing the open position. We called AMP trade desk to close the trade, they said they cannot see it, so we had to wait till next day morning, until the advanced trade desk were able to close the runaway trade - so basically nobody had control on a runaway trade, which was running without any protection orders.
We asked again, what happened - same thing, CTS data server failed to report first the cancelled order and then the open position to AMP.
We gave up with CTS, but we kept AMP and now we have Sierra's own datafeed with Rithmic for a couple months already - we had no issues so far, very good execution, too, no glitches.
Bottomline, Sierra is a very very good choice with it's own datafeed - but i would talk to Matt / Optimus about the brokerage choice.
Zolie, we apologize for the trouble you went through. My suggestion is always to have a second platform that you can plug in your credentials to liquidate or see the trades. For example, Rithmic is viewable on R Trader. I encourage every trader to discuss a second route for trading if possible and the cost involved. Many times, it is free depending on FCM and routing technology.
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
I can't compare any two datafeeds but only speak to my experience so far with sierra and CQG through AMP. Because I already had an account with AMP and CQG for ninjatrader, hooking up to sierra was easy. The cost is less than using tradingview for profiles. At this stage I'm only using it for analysis of the hkex indices and I execute through cqg and jigsaw daytradr, with confirmation on my iphone through CQG Mobile. So far so good and I'm damb impressed with the stability and resource use.
The following 2 users say Thank You to xiaosi for this post:
I totally agree with you, If you use broker or data feed works only on SC you will not be able to close or monitor your position throw mobile or tablet or if needed.
I have been using CTS for about a year now. I just stopped using them this week and I'm relieved I did. Not only was I paying between 500-1200 dollars a month but the system is very buggy. The customer support is second to none and open 24/5 but the bugs and data feed delays are totally not worth it.
Sierra is awesome !! THE PRICE IS UNPARALLEL
I pay CqG 25 a month plus data and the 35 a month for package 5. Sierra is not user friendly and will take you a while to figure it out but once you do you will be happy you took the time to learn. It's so customizable and very robust. Donyour self a favor and get Sierra
I've found that Rithmic's feed is the best due to the depth of market info that it shows. I've also used CQG and OEC (Gain), neither compare to Rithmic on Sierra Charts.
I use Rithmic's R | Trader for order entry. I don't trade directly from Sierra yet, although that may change in the future. The ability to do so will be there if you are using your live data feed account to power the charts on Sierra.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Wayne Gretsky
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I have some users that do not see the full 10 level deep on Rithmic. I tested the API on its native app R Trader and I see more than 10. Is there a feature on Sierra that limits as to how deep you want to see the level of the DOM? Rithmic says its Sierra, Sierra says its Rithmic. Can you please post your DOM here? I would like to show Sierra and Rithmic that some users do get it.
Thanks,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following user says Thank You to mattz for this post:
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following user says Thank You to mattz for this post:
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following user says Thank You to mattz for this post:
I've used SC with CQG for years and was finding the server side bracket orders annoying as when the parent fills the child server bracket orders do not adjust for slippage, meaning if I get a fill with slippage (say on a stop order entry) the target will be shorter and my stop larger.
SC manages the orders on their server which has 1MS latency to CTS so its effectively an exchange gateway. This means the orders behave as you would expect, are rock solid, NEVER lock, sizes adjust perfectly on bracket orders with partial fills, the list goes on.
Its $10 a month, .1 per side, and you have to pay for SC data which is rock solid. The extra cost you will save in multitudes with robust server side order handling.
CTS direct to SC is a nightmare (and is well documented by SC who recommend strongly not to use it) with server side orders. But with the Advanced Connection Model it is truly a tank.
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Hi
Wondering about Sierra but its hard to get complete cost
I only want to use sierra for volume profile charting and i dont need trading at the moment. ( maybe later )
I live in EU and use CFD instead.
Trade Eurex DAX
What is the best cost with tickdata that you know of ?
Saw infinity had sierra at great cost, dont know if i have to trade
With Infinity, you have to make a minimum of 10 trades per month for them to pay for the platform cost, but you're going to pay for the data feed either way.
All of the pricing for Sierra Charts is listed on the SC site and to use MP / VP you'll need package # 5 and a data feed. The SC data feed is rebranded barchart data and is quite good as I used it in the past.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Wayne Gretsky
The following user says Thank You to CenFlo for this post:
If you won't satisfy the 10 trades/month with Infinity Futures you could open an account with AMP (500$ minimum) and pay you'll get SC package 3 for free (no market profile or footprint) or package 5 (MP and footprint) for 25$/month. No inactivity fees.
Just another option which is the one I use.
The following user says Thank You to nonojnet for this post:
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
Without a trading account, you will pay professional fees for CME data. You need to have a funded account.
Thanks,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following 2 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
Matt is correct. CME requires you to pay the full professional fee for data, which is, as I recall, $105/month, if you don't have a trading account. If you do have a trading account, I believe it's something like $5 (I could be out of date here), and sometimes the broker will pick it up for you. Basically, CME doesn't want to give the data away if they're not going to get any trading from you.
One thing is to look for demo accounts offered by brokers, but there will be a limit on the time they can be used (I believe there is a limit of 2 weeks), although often they can be renewed once, which gives you a month. Then the brokers want you to make up your mind, which is reasonable.
I am going from memory (I did it once, a while ago), but I think the deal comes down to something like this:
- Sierra Chart's own data feed (which is excellent) is available at different prices based on the number of symbols (futures contracts, e.g. ES, CL, etc.) you get. You'll have to take a look, but I believe that when I used this there was an option for something like 10 symbols, more than enough for most people, for about 10 bucks/month. It's not the first choice listed, so read the whole page; it's there somewhere.
- Sierra Chart monthly fee for the platform: I pay $24/month; you can get some more functionality that I don't use for another $10 or so. Look into the account options for that.
- CME monthly professional data fee, which is charged by Sierra and passed on to CME: When I did this, some time ago, Sierra Chart charged me a fee of $115/month, which I believe is higher than the actual CME fee. Perhaps since SC is located in New Zealand, they were giving themselves a little cushion for exchange rate changes; but I don't really know why there's a difference.
BUT: On the same page or somewhere on the site, you will find that CME offers a one month free trial, and I think that Sierra Chart has a two-week or so trial on their data (I think you can extend that another 2 weeks; you'll have to check), and Sierra Chart itself has some kind of trial offer for the platform, which you will also have to look around the site for. So you could go for a month with very little outlay of cash. More than enough time to know if you want to use the platform.
One more thing, very important: the CME's idea of "one month" means the entire calendar month or any part of it, so if you sign up on the first of the month, or the 15th of the month, or the last day of the month, any of those counts as a whole month and you have to pay the whole fee. Also, if you take the 1-month free CME trial, same deal: any part of a month is the same as all the month. So time your decisions based on this, if these fees are important to you.
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Or, now or after the free trial periods, just put together a few bucks and open a broker account.
Bob.
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Right, I had forgotten that. This does really change the cost picture.
CME merged with other exchanges over the years, but kept them as separate "exchanges" within the CME Group, and they all have separate data fees.
For instance,
ES is CME and so is NQ - that's one fee for anything on that "exchange"
CL is NYMEX - that's another
YM is CBOT - that's another
GC is COMEX - that's another
This would get ridiculous fast. The original question had to do with ES and CL, so that's two fees, total $210 per month.
Unless you're only planning to do a short-term look at the platform, or at futures generally, and would be done with your looking after the free trial period, go ahead and open a brokerage account. Within a few months you would have spent the same money on the no-broker option, and not have the money any more.
(It is not wise or safe to trade the small minimum amounts brokers sometimes allow to open accounts -- there's no cushion for losses, which will come -- but to just get one open so you can access the data and/or trade in sim, this would be a better choice. Meanwhile, add to the account balance as much as you can before actually trading.)
Bob.
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