Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,002 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,468 given,
98,269
received
Oh, and completely refresh the OOBE (out of box experience) with modern looking colors, buttons, fonts, DOM's with profile, simple chart templates people are interested in.
The default colors (and appearance, see above post) just make the program look out of date, when under the hood it's cutting edge.
It's not representative and I bet a lot of people don't give it a chance because they are judging it based on whats on the outside instead of the inside...
One of the things that I really like about Sierra is that they spend their time on things that matter under the hood. For those of us who actually give Sierra a chance in spite of it's rather outdated out of the box front end, we are rewarded with one of the best platforms available.
To be honest if I had to choose between their development team focusing more on making it look pretty out of the box, or continuing to focus on features, speed, stability and all around power. I think I would vote to stick with the latter.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following 10 users say Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,002 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,468 given,
98,269
received
From the perspective of an existing user that makes sense.
But in my opinion the growth of the community is being stunted by the old looking GUI and bad OOBE. So many are not giving it the chance you've given it, and never get to where you are.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,002 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,468 given,
98,269
received
Just in case I have not made my point clear, what I mean is that the goal of the organization should be to make the best trading product possible, right? And to do that, they need funds. They get funds from subscriptions, which means they need more users (or to raise prices).
My point is, there is a core audience right now that understands Sierra. But it's a bit outside of the comfort zone from some other retail platforms and some people are not giving it a chance or are abandoning it shortly after download because of the OOBE and what would appear to be a very outdated piece of software.
In fact, I didn't look at Sierra for a long time because it looked antiquated to me. It was only once I paid closer attention that I realized its potential.
Long story short: many people judge a book by its cover, so now that the contents of the book are good, I'd like to see Sierra give the cover a face lift which in turn will grow the community.
@Big Mike Did you see the navigation bar we designed? if you like this direction we can go to the DOM, etc
We will do it with the increase of customers who use it.
Matt
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following 2 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
But I also like to see their user base grow,
so that they stay healthy
and provide me with my favorite trading platform.
For the last point:
- better look and feel
----- (not important to me, but maybe new users ?)
- flatten steep learning curve of initial use
---- this is partly due to Sierras zillion functionalities
-------- no change here please
-------- yes, I cry for more functions & simplicity at the same time
---- somewhat confusing & illogical structure of the menus
-------- e.g alphabetize "Tools"
-------- ...
---- 2-3Tier documentation
------ one brief & entry level only
------ the existing one is very detailed (but reality is ,most dont read it)
---------- lots/more annotated pictures in the doc.
------ video tutorials !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- make use of your Sierra user community
---- open your forum
------- use a modern forum script
---- encourage user helping users there
---- dont fear increased support time/ effort
---- be nice to your clients & dont fuck them with your famous attitude in the support forum
------- yes, we are bastard, but this is part of the game
- marketing
---- go out there and tell the retail trader world about your superior platform
---- tell the retail forex world about it
---- ...
- DOM
---- I dont use Sierra DOM right now, so it might be fine
---- my request is , to make Sierra DOM exactly like Ninja's DOM (the current version)
- abandon the "dont say thank you"-policy
----> you deal with humans, we like to be nice
Did I say video tutorials already ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The following 7 users say Thank You to puma for this post:
These are educational videos, and if you have more ideas for videos, we would gladly implement them.
Matt
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following 5 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
This is part of our tutorials to those who become our customers for Sierra.
We are not sure if everyone knows about it, but to us as a brokerage it is important to keep our customers educated.
This also saves time with support, and gives a reference point so customer could come again and agin.
We would like to expand our videos to other languages as well, so when we come across expertise we make sure to utilize it.
Matt
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following 2 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
1. A simplicity brings a stability and vice versa.
2. SC Team has no intention to increase the user base - just take a look at the policy: no free version, no API, no .Net - this is the definite way to stay out of the mainstream.
3. NT nor MC isn't a good example to compare. Take a look at CTS and X_Trader as a minimum.
4. As well as I know there will be a 64 bit and Qt5 based cross platform SC version next year. So Qt5 will allow them to build something really flexible and cute.
5. Linux is also not a mainstream. So there will be huge changes for the industry in 3-5 years.
imho
Scientia Libertas Prosperitas
The following 5 users say Thank You to slickiam for this post:
I think SC is interested in increasing it's user base, but they set terms that would allow them to be scalable in lieu of demand that may come from users. Separating factors that weigh on your infrastructure and have no real value rather than great image, is something that SC takes into consideration.
I think we can agree that increased number of users in not always an indicators of success, however software the grows with traders and trading innovation will last for many years (as you tried to indicate).
I also think that entrepreneurship of any kind is the life you lead, and to be quite honest, SC never strikes me as this "greedy" grab it all mentality rather very practical in it's application with a great value system.
Matt
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following 4 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
I would say at the very minimum I would change the look of the trading dom. It looks pretty dated. I did a trial of sc and and subscribed within 2 days. I could not imagine using anything else other than SC. I simply love it. The online user manual is the best I have ever seen. I am currently a lifetime license holder of ninja and multi and have used investor rt extensively in the past so I am familiar with these other platforms.
The following 5 users say Thank You to Babool for this post:
It would be nice to see some more substantive comments.
For example, you want to change the DOM, but you do not say what is missing or what would make it better or by adding cfg option X would help trading because.... X Trader is a DOM people like, but is even more dated. So is it really the function/usability or the GUI? Is it the DOM or the TradeWindow portion?
Another example, change the colors. Well you can change the colors to whatever you want, so whats stopping you. Is the OOBE kind of vanilla, ah thats an understatement. However, setting a default color scheme is not easy because everyone wants something different, not to mention a lot of people are red/green color blind. A better way to state this is to ask for color schemes that can set the entire default color scheme for the program (i.e. black background, white background, puke grey, no red/green, pretty pink, ...), then there could be a whole set of schemes that people could load up and try.
Here is one of mine: The toolbars are not great right now. They have small fixed size buttons, you can not change the icons, they do not dock to the windows very well (i.e. detached), they should really be more of a tool pallet that I can pop up where ever I am (i.e. on multiple displays should pop up for active chart on current display). It would also be nice to put non-buttons on the bar (i.e. a drop down to change symbol or timeframe).
The following 5 users say Thank You to aslan for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,002 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,468 given,
98,269
received
Hi @aslan, one possibility for improving the OOBE experience would be to have a 'wizard' part of the first-time use that asks you your broker, data feed, time zone, that type of stuff --- but also asks you the preferred color scheme (I would make this the first question hehe) and maybe you could have three or four built-in and then the user can customize from there.
An example is a light and dark theme (white background, dark background charts) as well as a primary color like blue or green to choose from.
Broker: Infinity Futures, SierraChart RT Data Feed
Trading: Mini-DAX, CL, 6E
Posts: 532 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 273 given,
403
received
Hi,
I am new to this forum although I am following some time. Today I just want to share two screenhots as illustration for the power of Sierra Chart's DOM. Since the DOM is customizable like any other chart it can hold any kind of market information.
Besides its speed and reliability it is even possible to make it look kind of "modern"...
In terms of usability of Sierra Chart it would be an improvement being able detaching complete chartbooks for use on multiple monitor systems.
Best, Chris
The following 10 users say Thank You to chrismuc for this post:
Nice to see the first post as a helpful and insightful comment for traders. One big Willkommen!
Matt
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
Broker: Infinity Futures, SierraChart RT Data Feed
Trading: Mini-DAX, CL, 6E
Posts: 532 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 273 given,
403
received
Just found a thread on SC-Support Board from yesterday - thought sharing it here:
"Mainly there have just been corrections to small issues from recent development. Another item is continued performance improvements to the new Spreadsheets.
Generally there is a large amount of development which includes small changes and improvements which is done which often is not mentioned."
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,002 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,468 given,
98,269
received
No excuse really. Write a sentence in the changelog to state that if that's all that was changed. Otherwise, no one knows when something breaks if it was fixed or not because there is no changelog.
That's exactly why I posted that thread on the Sierra forum. I generally read the release notes very carefully before determining if im going to download the latest version or not. There are a myriad of reasons why I often don't download a new version for several weeks after release,...or on the other hand I often download a new release within minutes of being available if it is critical.
Sierra needs to ensure that release notes are issued for every version.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following 2 users say Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,002 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,468 given,
98,269
received
Just ask him nicely to pay attention to it. I think it's important to have a thread like this on neutral territory (off SC's support board), but you also have to understand he may not like some of the stuff written in the thread and therefore choose to ignore it
I tried a couple different times to use SC. The out of box experience was awful for me. Thie GUI was ugly and felt clunky, felt like I had went back to Windows 3.1. The menus/options were not very intuitive and the online docs were not much better...
Getting everything setup the way I need was taking forever as well. Initial setup wizards would likely help a lot in this area. I trade multiple futures and stock instruments (a quick glance and I have traded over 100 different stocks/etfs/future symbols this year. and use different chart setups and indicators. I felt overwhelmed just trying to get the basics setup, every menu seemed to have 50 options and none of them were explained in the application itself.
I was using SC with IB and this presented some additional challenges for me as well. I have 4 brokerage accounts and was never able to get more than one working correctly.
In the end the trial period was not long enough for me to get comfortable enough to move forward with it. I spend my day trading and have limited amount of time to mess with a new platform. If it is cumbersome and time consuming then I will move on fairly quick.
So, too answer the request of this forum..
-Improve the OOBE with templates and/or setup wizards.
-Improve the menu system and documentation (both in the application and online)
-Simplify setting up connections to brokers (part of the setup wizard) and adding instruments.
-Offer a longer trial period to allow more time to get through theses nuances
-I generally trader from the chart and use ATM strategies... These were painful to get going so any improvement to this OOB would also help to get over the initial setup experience.
Over the years I have had plenty of issues with NT and would have loved to move to something else.
The following 2 users say Thank You to wirechild for this post:
Agree that some premade chartbooks or chart templates would go a long way in helping someone new get started with Sierra. These could have a jpg or something to click on to view whether you wish to DL/install then a link to DL below it, ie ready made TPO charts with common settings, Numbers bars charts etc which are not intuitive for a new user to set up.
The following user says Thank You to Japhro for this post:
I think you might be using the upgrades incorrectly (I've been upgrading since version 39 so I have some experience!)
Unless the SC team have changed something for you or important to you then don't try to stay completely up to date. If its a change for you, you know whats in the "minor issues being fixed list." As good as they are there will sometimes be issues with some tiny aspect of SC operation in a new prerelease. So don't worry about the minor issues: don't use those minor releases.
Personally I now take this approach. When theres a new release that seems major and might affect me I download a copy of it. And unless its important to me I just leave it in a folder for a week or two. Then I upgrade. I probably only do this every 20 or 30 releases now. This was a lesson blueberrycake taught me - if it ain't broke just leave it the heck alone.
Don't be this guy
The following 4 users say Thank You to kiwi for this post:
I agree with everybody mentioning the layout. Maybe, the Qt5 switch (?) will improve this.
However, Trade Navigator looks somewhat similarly out-dated for a high price. Sure, TN is more for multi-product trading but it might had been a school classmate of SC at the beginning.
As a software developer I know that changing a 10+ year old program is very hard and practically means a rewrite.
SC is light and fast. One might not value this enough until another platform eats up the CPU/mem resources
Moreover, the SC's target group may differ from those what other retail platforms shoot for.
SC data feed flexibility and auto-trading features are more diverse than any other. Also features a native, low level programming interface.
Also mind that SC users seem to be insistent and possibly remain persistent subscribers.
I don't have problems with the change log because of the team does very carefully planning and testing. They release rock solid trading interfaces in some weeks.
So no need to rush a new feature but when it is done it is complete.
For intraday traders.. just try the infamous SC specific Chart DOM feature and you'll stop searching (imo).
Anyway, I can only point out the layout and the menu structure.
Happy trading to all!
The following user says Thank You to lezzlee for this post:
The platform is fairly solid internally, the emphasis on efficiency is good, and I prefer the ability to configure just about anything.
However, they really need to hire a development manager / PR manager who will put an end to the attitude the engineering team is giving to their paying customers. It's terribly bad for business and the morale of the end users. Own your problems.
You have people who are literally trying to help improve the product because they believe in it being told to basically pound sand on a regular basis and it really kills the desire to keep trying to help with bug reports and input on how something could be done more efficiently, workflow wise, for the trader (the actual end user using their product).
The following 2 users say Thank You to i960 for this post:
I have been using SC for quite a few years now and although they are not beginner user friendly their customization is second to none which is why I try others but keep on returning to Sierra.
Recently I have been considering future trading to take advantage of the extra edge gained by volume.
I have been studying the art of reading order flow on the DOM. It appears that Jig Saw Trading offer the most advanced and best DOM, can anybody verify or can SC DOM be customized to do the same things and as good?
The following 2 users say Thank You to Macboy for this post:
Jigsaw has some tools that SC does not, however the SC DOM is very capable and can be highly customised, as they consider it a chart and you can apply studies etc to the DOM. If you can't make money with SC you wont make money with Jigsaw imo.
The following user says Thank You to Japhro for this post:
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
While SC is a great platform and the SC developers are superb, there is always room for improvement.
Since the title of the thread does not seem to limit to the software, here are a few requests:
1. Please INCREASE the number of SC developers.
The SC development team is always overloaded with so many things on their plates, such that even basic QC seems lacking.
For example, their current version (v1246) had to be rolled back to v1241, even though they had updated a number of times previously (v1242, v1243, v1245 and v1246).
2. Please CHANGE the layout of the SC support board.
The current board is ugly, messy, disorganised... and worst of all, DISCOURAGES helpful non-SC developers from contributing.
Why can't SC Support create a layout with a few categories, e.g.:
a) Basic SC Platform support
b) Indicators (User discussion)
c) IT-related issues
d) Pricing issues
That way, SC users can go straight to the respective categories to search for answers before making new requests.
Non-SC developers can contribute to requests under the Indicators (User discussion) category, so SC Support can focus on platform issues and SC development. That way, SC can bring in the community to help make SC even better, instead of the current situation of making non-SC developers lose interest in even providing feedback about potential bugs/flaws in SC.
I have seen many repeated and unnecessary questions on the similar issues.. and although some SC users may appreciate the "patience" of SC Support to answer them (usually the basic ones), frankly I see it as being unproductive.
The following 5 users say Thank You to fourtiwinks for this post:
Wow, this is the ugliest charting software i ever seen. I am just reviewing different platforms, but this is too much. I usually have only few seconds to react to scanner, but here even loading a ticker means going through some complex menus. Too nerdy for me, no matter what powerful functions are there.
LOL, the few charts that they package it with are the ugliest charts you might ever see, agreed, but I can get it to look just about as good as anything out there, and the functionality over most of it's competition is superb.
Re Tickers and menus etc, it's true that this is geared towards futures trading, you can trade stocks but looking up tickers is clumsy, and options, forget it unless you want to manually create a new chart for each strike for each expiry.
It's a futures platform, it doesn't pretend to be otherwise
The following user says Thank You to Japhro for this post:
Pretty sure how pretty a platform looks is not correlated to how much money you make.
Pretty platforms appeal to retail amateur traders - I am sure the bezel buttons on other platforms make you happy.
I would like a fix for referencing multiple time frames during the bar based backtest. At the moment, if you use for example a 1 hour bar based back test which references a daily chart, the back test will have look ahead bias and see what the daily closed at on the day, which can turn a bad strat into dangerously good one.
Not really, i think this is year 2015 and there's no reason for anything to look so bad. It kills productivity big time. As a visionary person, I recommend everyone to catch up with this century. Googleize it. Otherwise, you end up selling your less and less relevant product for 30 bucks.. cough
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,002 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,468 given,
98,269
received
The OOBE experience is terrible. I've expressed my opinion about this countless times. That said, I am not sure it is fair to say it results in lower efficiency/productivity. Sure, there are things I dislike about the structure, but that is going to be true of any platform (and I've used many) and will never change until the day you write your own.
The bigger concern, in my opinion, is that the poor OOBE experience lends itself to a very low conversion/attach rate of new customers that try Sierra for the first time, then stop almost immediately because the program feels so out of date. Or those that don't even download it, because the screenshots of it look so out of date.
That creates a problem for the continuing support of the platform, because it means a lower adoption rate and less new customers providing revenue for the company.
If Sierra were visually up-to-date with modern apps, I have a feeling that Sierra's team couldn't keep up with demand. I believe they purposely don't pursue that approach because they don't want to expand their customer base too much, they are comfortable where they are.
So long as they don't go out of business due to that approach, I'm fine with it and I think that my charts and my DOM especially are cutting edge, once you give it enough time to make them your own.
Agreed, Sierra seems to publish only the worst and most outdated looking stuff out there, with zero regard to customer attraction. Marketing people, they are not, but it's fantastic software once you spend some time with it. I ditched 2 other platforms that I paid lifetime licenses for and lease this yearly now, because it can do things that the others cant
The following 3 users say Thank You to Japhro for this post:
I've used NinjaTrader for about 1.5 years, Sierra for about 2 years, TWS for about 6 months, and my own 'platform' to cater for things that retail platforms generally can't do.
Out of the retail platforms Sierra is definitely the best. I haven't even scratched the surface with all the functionality it has to offer.
However different platforms have different strengths,...I haven't found a single platform that caters for everything, which is why I chop and change depending on what I need (and code my own solutions where there aren't any retail ones available).
But I agree 100% that out of the box Sierra certainly does look dated. I can't help but think this may be somewhat intentional. With all the power and functionality Sierra has it is clear the development team has what it takes to make an exceptional product, but it is also clear where the company's focus lies. Their focus is not on pretty buttons.
For those people out there who like pretty buttons there are platforms out there that will make you feel good about your choice. (whether that makes you a better trader is another thing). Sierra on the other hand will reward those who put the time in.
It would be great if Sierra had both looks and brains,....but if I have to only choose one then ill go for brains.
Diversification is the only free lunch
The following 5 users say Thank You to DarkPoolTrading for this post:
The growth of Sierrachart came out of it's good features, not out of spending recklessly on fancy google ads.
What most do not realize that Sierra is a pure technology company, not a sales and marketing company that happen to have a platform. The subscription model that adopted is the best model to assure users that funds are always coming in order to make the product better.
Sadly, Sierra is is always choice #2. First customers have to go through those platforms that have the best marketing exposure, then land on it in order to appreciate it's stability, being light on resources and execution.
Yours truly is guilty of the same thing! I regret not giving them the stage they deserve amongst other platforms that put customers first.
Interface design is important, but it takes a lot of resources. This is a job of an expert that understand the interaction between machine and man. This is not only a matter of putting "pretty" buttons, etc. Yes, I would like to have a facelift for Sierra, but whether they do or not, those who really trade will have Sierra show up in their trading career.
Matt
Optimus Futures
There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following 3 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
But are they? I mean how do you know? I have not seen any data re their subscriber numbers, whereas NT often quote theirs (although I am not sure how they define a user eg I have an NT free licence and login once every 3 months to keep it live, but have not used it for trading for a couple of years).
I sure hope you are right re SC numbers growing. It is great software and deserves to enjoy increasing support from the trading community.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
Posts: 50,002 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,468 given,
98,269
received
I think they are. They've run multiple campaigns on the site now (with renewals) so I think their business is growing. Word of mouth is their most powerful tool, and probably everyone warns their friends that the OOBE is bad but don't get discouraged -- give it a little time and you can customize it. From there, I think everyone agrees the platform is very powerful and has everything built-in, a very different model than some other platforms.
I don't see sierrachart graphical apparence so terrible, sure there is better.
But when I see one like @johndee I think he's an advance troll or spammer, he doesn't know what he speaks about.
Especially cause it seems he use MC that is not really user friendly. SC in comparison is a breeze.
Look, one thing is to support "your football team" (which is not very good attitude for trading btw), and then there's reality. I'm perfectly neutral, saying my concerns. They are valid. BigMike summed it up nicely in the long post. No need to check my history posts and talk childish stuff, it's not relevant. Sierra is the ugliest trading software, can't deny it. I saw many apps and i'm just making a new round of checks this year. I wish they improve this to attract more people. I don't have anything against them, I'm not going to use it in this shape, because I'm simply not into outdated stuff, like many other people. I hope it's clear now.
Platform: Sierra Chart, TOS, Tradestation, NinjaTrader
Trading: energy
Posts: 114 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 81 given,
171
received
sierra chart can handle vast numbers of data input streams without taking any resources. other platforms take gigs of memory, look nicer, but dont have any additional functionality. I trade full time, i would use a blue coconut and a rusty sprinkler key if it helped me focus on trading rather than technology. SC just works, and i rarely think about my 'platform'. Highest praise i have to give.
The only complaint i have with SC is the terrible need to have a chart open for every timeframe and symbol you want to track. You want to overlay a 1 hour MA on a 5 min chart, add a chart. You want to subgraph the VIX and ADVDEC onto a futures chart, add two more charts. Its simple, and its fast and straightforward in how to do it, but just goofy. I have two chartbooks with over 50 graphs on them just to power 3 visible charts. Never noticed a slowdown because of it, but it can make for very complex relationships and data/bar matching challenges.
Someone above said it best, when you get serious about certain kinds of trading, you eventually find your way to SC. They are lucky however, that ninja continuously ruined their business models though. i thought for a few years there that NT was going to take over the market.
The following 7 users say Thank You to hobart for this post:
I suspect you are right - that they are growing. I was just chasing to see if you (or anyone else) had some actual numbers that supported the view that they are growing and Big Mike has now pointed to some ancillary evidence.
Playing devils advocate, one could argue that SC posting messages like you highlighted could be because they are having trouble finding staff or have laid off staff - it does not automatically 'prove' they are growing.
I've recently started using SC after being with Ninja for several years and I have to say that BM is right, out of the box I found it to be a nightmare. Maybe I'm just used to Ninja, but it seems like SC has gone out of their way to make finding/doing the simplest things as difficult as possible. But after a month of use I am getting better with it.
I'm sure in a year it'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread!
You might like to update your profile (the bit to the left of your post) to reflect you use Sierra Chart. Helps to reflect the increasing popularity of SC on this forum. New members benefit as they can get a better idea of what are the most popular trading software solutions used by members on the forum.
The following user says Thank You to steve2222 for this post:
If you are serious about automated strategies or write substantially computational intensive indicators, (in my opinion) there is no competition to SierraChart. I found NinjaTrader was a massive resource drain when using their interface methods and attempting to reverting to lightweight C# helper implementations to alleviate some of the overhead didn't seem to help much. MultiCharts was better but hit limits with the use of C#.
SierraChart on the other hand, remains a native C++ architecture with the inclusion of their custom DLL (ACSIL). It's extremely lightweight (well of course, it's C++) and with the study loading approach using DLL's, it gives you the freedom to basically do anything you like.
As for the graphical interface, it's not pretty. If you go to their support board however, you can see the questions seem to be more technical than with other platforms. Maybe that's by design, the less shiny you make the graphical interface, the less likely you are to have beginner traders using your system and more likely to focus your support on legitimate issues. Making a general assumption here but beginner traders will likely place ease of use and graphical appeal above performance during the beginning stages of their career.
The following 3 users say Thank You to jayturn for this post:
I'm not a client of Sierra but I was about to tried it (especially since a lot of people here say a lot of good about their platform).
So as any prospect client I went to the web site and more importantly to the forum and tech support. What I have read has horrified me (I did not even try to ask any questions, I was afraid that one of their tech support guy came at my door in order to slap my face for having asked a question he did not like ).
What they need first is just basic education, basic politeness I'm not even speaking of client service. And I came from Europe and we a 100x time less picky than North American about client service.
Maybe with that they can increase greatly their client base, hire more staff, update the look and feel of the interface ?
R.I.P. Olivier Terrier (aka "Okina"), 1969-2016.
Please visit this thread for more information.
Have you tried Using DTC Server for Data and Trading in Another Sierra Chart Instance?
"Free markets work because they allow people to be lucky, thanks to aggressive trial and error, not by giving rewards or incentives for skill. The strategy is, then, to tinker as much as possible and try to collect as many Black Swan opportunities as you can"
The following user says Thank You to Neo1 for this post:
[SIZE="<font><font class="">4</font></font>"][SIZE="<font><font>5</font></font>"][SIZE="<font><font class="">4</font></font>"]With it wanted to handle Sierra the problem, I think. But this is no practicable solution. I find the programme not badly for a Retailer programme. Only the demands have strongly changed the last 10 years.
The GUI has also become outdated. The same problem also have TS. . .
NT8 has a modern GUI. I work for 3 years with Sierra. Am degree in test with NT8 and am impressed what with Ninja compared with the 7th version has acted!
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
I also would like to see the GUI change to a modern type platform. I think this could bring more traders to it.
However, in the last few years I have worked with SC closely and got to know their efforts towards stability, functionality and supporting the ongoing effort towards a standard that traders should accustomed to while risking their capital.
This effort from Sierra has brought about traders who can rely on their platform for stability, and having good integrations with datafeeds.
Although design could be more up to date, from an interface design stand point, it has all the core functionalities easily found via its input controls and navigational components. Things such as Volume Profiles are displayed in a manner that trades can easily follow.
Lastly, please consider that many have switched to SC from much better design due to core strengths. From what I see new designs do not make traders rush and change versions either.
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past pero=formance is not indicative of future results.
Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
The following 7 users say Thank You to mattz for this post:
Thanks for the contribution
The GUI is not decisive there. Disconcerting I did not find that SC on the new calculators generation (64 bits) is ported. But after detailed tests with NT8 one must admit that Sierrachart has the nose in many things in front. NT8 cannot keep up there. In spite of 64 bits. . . Hence, Sierra will remain my commercial programme. Besides, the thin brokers list, the disqualified NT8 anyway. To egocentrically this model.
Currently to see the value of a study at the crosshair one must use the 'Chart Values for Tools' window.
(Inexplicably accessed by a different name in the main menu: Window >> Tool Values Window.)
The Chart Values for Tools window is always on top, so it is frequently in the way and needs to be repositioned.
A way to avoid using intrusive windows is to put the study values at the crosshair in each respective Region Data line.
If the OHLCVT data was included in Region 1's data line, it would also allow the user to avoid using the Compact Tool Values Window which must also be parked somewhere.
(The Compact Tool Values Window was added when the Status Bar was removed.)
The following 2 users say Thank You to tomgilb for this post:
When inserting or deleting columns in spreadsheets, the cell references are maintained. However any other chart studies that reference those columns are not updated.
When I playback a spreadsheet trading system, all the charts are updated periodically, and price action is automatically kept in view, EXCEPT for the chart being traded. Eventually, the price moves off the top or bottom of the chart window.
I know it saves CPU time to not scroll it, but then if you can scroll all the other charts, why not scroll this, the most important one too? I should not have to adjust, which often times requires pausing the playback.
When doing a Replay Chart, with 'For All Charts In Chartbook' selected, the replay should not start until all charts have loaded their data.
As it is now, the chart used to start the replay will begin the replay before another chart has fully loaded its data.
The following 2 users say Thank You to tomgilb for this post:
Starting with release 1663 SC supports combining CME trades into their original summaries.
The feature was requested several times here on FIO, esp by order flow / volume traders.
"1663 Release Date: 2017-12-08
Time and Sales window supports through a new combining option, the combining of CME trades into the original summary trade when using the Sierra Chart Exchange Data Feed."
It would be great [as I am a GNU/Linux "fan" as well] but unfortunately if you look at their web site is unlikely that they will support Linux and more likely that they will support macOS. Better than nothing but again unfortunately they do not have a time frame to when this will be done.
Regarding of using SC in Linux with Wine, I never tried because when I was researching on SC forums about it, SC team/engineers do not recommend doing this and they say that there will be problems...
I do like them for trade execution, and clean charts... but I wish there was a dynamic fib levels tool that had confluence of different time frame fib levels on one chart. I have seen this for a forex market, but not for futures markets.
The 64-bit version of Sierra Chart has now been released as of a few weeks ago.
You just need to update with Help >> Download Current Version.
There will be an icon for it on your desktop that ends with_64. But it should automatically run anyway as long as long as the Windows you are running is 64-bit which is the case for 95% of our users.
We also hope in about two weeks to release the CME market by order data which will support additional levels of market depth. We will also include the number of orders at each price level in the market depth data display. This will only though be available with the Sierra Chart Exchange Data Feed but with other supported trading services additional levels of depth have been available for a while now anyway.
As far as other operating support goes, that is actively being worked on indirectly by making changes to the internal design of Sierra Chart to allow it to be ported to another operating systems easily. But still this really is a major development task that still is not likely to be a reality until 2019. But we do think it is going to be a reality due to the definitive progress being made.
The following 7 users say Thank You to SierraChart for this post:
If I overlay a study from a source chart in one time zone (e.g. New York) onto a destination chart in a different time zone, (e.g. Seattle), the times are treated the same as if they are in the same time zone. So the study value that occurs at 12:00 Noon in New York ends up being displayed in the Seattle (destination) chart at 12:00 Noon, when it should be moved to the equivalent time in Seattle(9:00AM). This causes inconsistent results depending on the global time zone setting. It seems only the last bar in the destination matches the correct last bar of the source.
The study values being overlaid are ending up at the wrong place in time, and there is a hockey stick at the end of the line. This makes no sense to me.
The chart on the left (destination) is in PDT, the one on the right (source) is in EST. Try changing the time zone in either one and the overlay changes. The only correct one is when they match, which defeats the purpose.
There are reasons why one would want a chart fixed to New York time (session times, studies that have specific times in them like Globex Hi and Low) and why one would want to trade in their own time zone.
Here is what a 50 ema overlay from a 1 minute chart in New York appears on a volume chart in a time zone in Seattle:
Sierra has stated that I am first one to mention this, and they have no intention on fixing it (as of 3/13). They say it would be inefficient to implement this. I suppose, but I would think an internal global time reference could be used by all charts, and then offset when desired on a chart by chart basis.
So if you are using overlaid studies, then the source and destination charts should all be in the same time zone.
I was just on board with Sierra Charts for a couple of weeks. Extremely love its efficiency, powerfulness, comprehensiveness, and nerdyness
Among the many great tools, Zig Zag is a cool tool. And I am wondering, whether there is a chance to make it a basic bar type, kind of like a reversal bar. The issue of using the current Zig Zag tool constructed from other bar types (time bars for example) is: the time bar is the basic calculation unit where the detailed tick information can not be accurately assigned to the correct Zig Zag lines. Say the Zig Zag line reverses at a certain time-based bar where its high serves at the reversal price --- a transition from a UP line to a Down line. The ticks before the reversal price should be assigned to the UP line, and the ticks at and after the reversal price should be assigned to the Down line.
It seems that the only way to get calculation exact is to have its own Zig Zag bar type. And this will be indeed a variant of the reversal bar which uses the reversal prices to delimit the bars. Once we have this bar type, the Volume By Price and Numbers bars tools will reveal much more clear picture of the bid/ask dynamics.
I wish they had some kind of inspector so you could quickly change study / chart settings. Also if study / chart settings could be 'styled' so that a change on one chart automatically updates on another one. The current remove and re-add study process gets tedious.
Also, chart settings should be savable similar to study settings. It's outrageous that I frequently need to change the time zone from universal time to NY time. I've changed every time setting I can in the program to NY time and still when I make new charts they start in universal time.
- Use Chartbooks (settings of multiple chart windows) and StudyCollections (studies/indicator setting for one chart). You may then change between them whenever you wish.
- You may find interesting the Study/Price Overlay study to copy indicator lines to another chart.
- You can save your current settings as default for a study if you check Save these settings as the default on the very bottom of the study settings dialog window.
- You can set time zone in Global Settings / Data/Trade service settings, as well on a per chart basis in Chart Settings / Advanced settings tab. Also you can set the time zone of a specific market in Global Settings / Symbol Settings, find the symbol then Intraday tab. When Apply Intraday settings on intraday charts is checked (lower left) this will overwrite your other settings.. if not else in a manner of what part of a day is shown on the chart.
I hope these help
The following 2 users say Thank You to lezzlee for this post:
Support probably hates me by now but I'd add options tables. Options are such an integral part of trading it really precludes Sierra Charts from being a top trading platform.
The following user says Thank You to grayfrog for this post:
Definitely would be a great addition to Sierra although they will never do it in my own personal opinion. The subscription model is a stronger business model these days and also sustains continued development and improvement.......
This said, I truly believe that Sierra is probably the best platform out there and the developers are incredibly responsive but I've started to look elsewhere.
Here are my main issues with Sierra:
- Lack of options tables, even simple options tables. I find it very hard to believe that anyone who trades seriously doesn't utilize options, even just at times, as part of their trading strategy. Along these lines, I don't think you can have a modern professional generalized trading platform without options tables.
- Organized data feed. The team at Sierra has done an incredible job with the TTFix execution route and Denali. I am by no means a professional trader but I am quite type A and been in this game a while. I feel at this point I've done a fair amount of research on the data and platform issue out there for the retail trader. The Denali feed is definitely second to none and they have put a ton of work into it. The issue I have is that Denali is very much a work in progress. As of now, if you are trading equities, options and futures, you need to subscribe to both the Denali and the Sierra real time exchange feeds. They are compensating for this inconvenience by giving a discount on the Sierra real time feed if you subscribe to both Denali and Sierra but still; it feels disorganized and quite pieced together. Again, they are working on it, know it's an issue, but it is a current glaring issue.
Clearly, I know nothing of their business model or organizational structure but it does seem that the Sierra Charts group could do more to hire people to who can push along certain large idea projects.....again, I have no personal experience with doing something like this but just my take as an outsider.
Sierra Charts is incredibly powerful and customizable. It also generally has a horrible menu and interface which doesn't make it immediately apparent just how powerful it is, this can definitely be a turn off at first if you're coming from a more UI friendly platform like NinjaTrader or TradeStation
Aside from hiring a UX Designer to improve the accessibility of the platform, and overhauling the UI, which are both huge and expenseive tasks; something relatively simple to include would be some advanced Chart Book examples tailored to specific styles of trading. This would go a long way of showcasing what Sierra Charts can do and give clients an idea of how they can customize their setup.
The following 2 users say Thank You to lgix for this post:
SierraChart is a quality, feature rich software with perpetual efficient & quick improvements by the developpers, plus great support despite the tone (that I personally appreciate, to the point). If only the outdated and cumbersome UI could be updated, it would be perfect...
I’d like to see 2 minute charts! 5 minute charts can move pretty far before you see an entry signal and 1 minute charts don’t allow enough read time! I know I’m unusual!
I've been a Sierra user since about 2013, and they have fixed most of the issues I have had with it in that time. My 2 remaining big wishlist issues are :
1. some basic dom trade buttons on the dom instead of as an attached or unattached panel, which takes up much too much space on the screen
2. being able to set a chartbook to a specific window/monitor as a group, instead of individual charts. This way I could use a number of chartbooks to flip through without having to open and close them or minimize individual charts. ATAS platform handles this nicely
FWIW, I also agree about the lack of basic options functionality in Sierra, but to be fair, many other futures platforms do not have this and they have never promised anything more than the ability to call up a particular call or put in a chart or dom and trade it.
Point 2) is really important. One way to get around it is to create a button in your main window to hide all detached charts and one to restore them. This way once you have settled your charts on different desktops you just reduce/restire all of them at once.
This solves the problem, but of course it would be easier to be able to "detach" workbooks or to have a conceptual framework that stands between workbook and chart, so it could work as a container for charts.
One Feature that I would include in Sierra is the ability to mask your account number.
I like to make videos about trading and I am also open to trade live but I don't want to show everyone my account number, so at the end I keep all videos for myself.
It would be more than enough to mask the last 3-4 digits or to rename the account in some way.
This is a feature that users suggested to Sierra several times, but they just decide that it's not worthy. Many users suggested also the same feature, but Sierra has it's own way of deciding what it's useful and what is not.
For instance they think that TST and other funding firms are scammers and they just decide to drop them. I think in the long run Sierra will lose thousands of users. They have a great platform but they just don't care about the customer. In the meanwhile other platforms catch up.
FYI, regarding the SC Order-Routing Service/TT Order-Routing issues, I read this from the SC engineering team on the support board from Tuesday, February 16:
The following user says Thank You to snax for this post:
Chart 
