And what about SierraChart

December 6th, 2010, 05:29 PM

Awesome, thanks for sharing @David.

Mike

December 6th, 2010, 05:32 PM

their dom looks a little bit dull but it's all there, what are u missing ?

December 6th, 2010, 05:35 PM

FulcrumTrader

Good review! What contracts are you trading in ATS?

I'm still in the testing phase so I'm not trading live with SC yet, but I intend to start with CL.

The system is already trading live and profitably with NT 7 but I want to migrate it to Sierra Charts as I'm not comfortable with using NT7 for ATS, particularly when trading different instruments at the same time where resource utilisation could cause issues.

December 6th, 2010, 08:40 PM

I have just been looking at it the past week or so, and haven't traded it at all, but as far as features it seems both good and bad.

The good,

1) The core package, which is all most people will need, is only $26 per month. That's less than half of NT and a fourth of Multcharts. Nice if you are on a budget and IMO you get a lot for that money.
2) They have a nice set of instructional videos which makes it easy to get up to speed on using the program.
3) Support has been very good so far, they answer questions on the forum quickly.
4) It uses a tabbed interface and not that floating window crap you get with NT.
5) Replay is integrated and is not a separate connection with separate data.
6) I am able to get historical backfill, including tick data, for IB and Velocity, although I am not sure of the source yet.
7) Although I haven't used it yet, you can create simple indicators, alerts and strategies using an excel based interface, which looks considerably easier for non-programmers to use.
8) It feels very fast compared to NT. Everything loads and is executed quickly.
9) If you like to chart trade, it seems to be significantly better than NT.
a) You can have up to 5 targets.
b) There's a chart dom so you can quickly place limit and stop orders using a single click instead of first having to right click and then scroll down the menu to the item you want.
c) You can see and modify your stops and targets before the order is filled.
d) You can modify stop and target quantities after orders are filled.
e) You can set the scale so the price stays in the middle of the screen, which makes it easy to quickly adjust your stops and targets without having to first shrink the scale down first (not that I would ever move my stops ).

The bad,

1) Dated Windows 98 looking interface.
2) I don't think you can edit the keyboard shortcuts.
3) Only have 1 sim account that I can see, which would be a problem when testing multiple strategies if not also for #4.
4) I haven't come across any type of performance reporting.
5) You can program advanced indicators, alerts and strategies in C++, but they don't have a built in script editor. You have to use the MS Visual C++ Express Edition, so there could be a steep learning curve there, I am not sure yet.

Also, so far it hasn't crashed.

Anyone feel to free to correct me if any of the above info is wrong.

December 6th, 2010, 09:00 PM

I am also intrigued by SC (coming from NT). I installed it yesterday and my first impressions are as follows:
- dated interface...man, that's old school..
- creating a new chart by having to open some file was weird...
- great speed in everything from loading charts to applying indicators, etc.
- seems feature-rich just based on some of the nice features that I saw in indicator settings
- probably a very steep learning curve in the development language (it's true that it makes NinjaScript looks like pseudo language). Transitioning all my custom programming from NT to SC would be painful.
Does it support Zen-Fire or Kinetick? I couldn't find a way to connect to these providers?
Thanks!

December 7th, 2010, 02:15 AM

When you program a windows program in C++ you have only default style of buttons on your simple interface.

Why is this a problem ? It's blazing fast and stable, I don't care how my buttons/interface looks like from 1998 or 1972, as long as it's working FAST and STABLE when I click on it, and that's what Sierrachart does.

I trade to be profitable, not to smile when I click a button because it's fancy. I really wanted to live with Ninjatrader, really. It didn't worked out, sorry, they messed up. Time for something new, like Sierracharts or Multicharts.

December 7th, 2010, 04:24 AM

Quoting

5) You can program advanced indicators, alerts and strategies in C++, but they don't have a built in script editor. You have to use the MS Visual C++ Express Edition, so there could be a steep learning curve there, I am not sure yet.

No, there is an inbuilt editor. Analysis -> New/Open Advanced Custom Study File->Select file to edit

However this is nothing like the Intellisense enabled NinjaScript editor and integrated compiler, which gives you useful hints about parameters etc. Instead you have to save the edited file, then use the in built compiler and then you find a coding error so its back to the editor again...

Using MS Visual C++ Express means that you have the integrated editor and compiler and it performs better than the inbuilt Watcom compiler.

Quoting

Transitioning all my custom programming from NT to SC would be painful.

Yes, very painful and time consuming. Probably impossible for some of them without delving into some serious C++ functionality. Remember, though, that many indicators for NT use some serious C# functionality.

Just to give you a quick idea about some of the coding diferences between NinjaScript and ACSIL:

To find if last bar was an up bar

NinjaScript:

Code

                            
if ( Close[1] > Open[1] )
{
do something
}

ACSIL:

Code

                            
if ( sc.BaseDataIn[SC_LAST][sc.Index - 1 ] > sc.BaseDataIn[SC_OPEN][sc.Index - 1 ])
{
do something
}

To find first bar of session

NinjaScript:

Code

                            
if ( Bars.FirstBarOfSession )
{
do something
}

ACSIL:

Code

                            
 if(DATE_PART(sc.BaseDateTimeIn[sc.Index]) != DATE_PART(sc.BaseDateTimeIn[sc.Index - 1]))
 {
 do something
 }

Print current price to output window:

NinjaScript:

Code

                            
 Print( "Current Price: " + Close[0].ToString());

ACSIL:

Code

                            
SCString message;
message.Format("Current Price: %f",sc.BaseDataIn[SC_LAST][sc.Index]);
sc.AddMessageToLog(message,1);

You can see that ACSIL is very Array based and does not wrap intuitive commands around internal complexity as NinjaScript does, however this is also its strength. It is very fast and robust and that is what you want for an automated trading system.

I have never had SC crash even when I have created some bad programming errors. NT would have buckled at the knees, probably corrupted a workspace or if it had a real headache, corrupted the database for good measure too.

I also think there is a side benefit to the SC programming approach. You need to know what you are doing and that is good. I dread to think how many $millions have been lost by traders bolting together automated systems using the NT strategy wizard, only to watch them get eaten alive in the market.

December 7th, 2010, 07:36 AM

@vegasfoster, thanks for sharing! Backfill comes from Sierra's servers according to their feature listing website.

@ibiscmllc, DTN is supported but not Kinetick, Kinetick is only for NT. You can probably contact DTN to upgrade your Kinetick connection to a regular IQfeed connection pretty easily. It also seems that Rithmic support was just added very recently (days), it is unclear if Zen Fire will work or only Rithmic (you would assume both, but couldn't determine this with Google yet). Also backfill is not yet available on Rithmic, but they are working to add it via Sierra's servers.

Mike

December 7th, 2010, 08:44 AM

vegasfoster

.........................................
6) I am able to get historical backfill, including tick data, for IB and Velocity, although I am not sure of the source yet.
9) If you like to chart trade, it seems to be significantly better than NT.
.....................................................
1) Dated Windows 98 looking interface.
2) I don't think you can edit the keyboard shortcuts.
3) Only have 1 sim account that I can see, which would be a problem when testing multiple strategies if not also for #4
4) I haven't come across any type of performance reporting.
...................................

For the backfill data u can select if u want from the data providers or if from SC backfill (time ago they told me is the same of transact data, not sure now).
Chart trader is not so easy like in NT, even if it has more function.
Ja, graphical interface /rendering is not so good like NT(that is one of the best imho)
There's keyboard shortcuts, but don't know if they are editable.
For more sim accuonts you can run multiple istances of SC at the same time.
There's a lack of simple and good performance/trades analyzer like NT (there are some indis that do some report)

For performance there is a quite resources consuming if u are using long term tick data, also for some indicators ,like renko that to be accurate need to be added to tick chart.

Big Mike

......... It also seems that Rithmic support was just added very recently (days), it is unclear if Zen Fire will work or only Rithmic (you would assume both, but couldn't determine this with Google yet). Also backfill is not yet available on Rithmic, but they are working to add it via Sierra's servers.

Mike

They are waiting for Rithmic side to give them the ok and allow them to use rithmic platform, Zen-Fire will also supported.

December 7th, 2010, 09:58 AM

FulcrumTrader

Correct.......no proper BID/ASK differential work in SC with current limitations.

Not sure what "proper" is, but I have been able to get it to work and it looks like my CD on other platforms. It is kludgy, in that you have to build it up on a 1-tick chart in the background, and then apply it as an overlay on another chart, but it does work (at least for how I use it). I was using the IQ feed, and loaded two weeks of data. The actual values of course are wrong (it is not the actual long/short interest), but the differences seemed to correct which is what you care about. It updates in real time, and loads the same values when I restart the platform.

And what about SierraChart

Discussion in Sierra Chart

And what about SierraChart