16) Server side OCO orders (if your connection supports it)

I hope it's okay to bump this old thread I found through Google.

I'm just reading quickly through this thread and it seems like most people find that Sierra is the better choice?

Any new opinions three or four years later? Especially with NT8 finally being released?

I'm currently torn between sticking with NT8 (and being 'forced') to use NT Brokerage and having more flexibility of broker choice (AMP and others) while having to learn a new platform.

If I chose the latter, it seems like Sierra is the way to go, but there also seems to be a learning curve and I'm short on time these days.

My needs are fairly simple though. I trade ES only. For day trading, I currently use 1-minute/30-second charts, volume charts and tick charts.

A good swing/zig zag indicator would be great. I currently have a custom made one that I use in Ninja.

Also, an indicator that plots prior day highs and lows and current day high and low + Open would be nice also.

Finally, execution from charts (and it would be nice if one can easily switch between charts).

I'm sure both platforms do this fairly well out of the box. Would be interesting to hear some new experiences though if anyone got to share.

I won't mince words here: a few months ago I downloaded the latest NT (I have a lifetime license, unfortunately), fired it up, and was amazed at what absolute garbage it still is.
...

I'm still using Sierra (though after a 3 year break there was a little learning curve). Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve. No, it hasn't improved in 3 years as much as I'd hoped. But, it's a good piece of software, affordable, and leagues ahead of NT.

Here are my two cents. Note that I am only now starting to look into NT8 (I was worried about stability in the beginning), although I have a long experience with NT7. I also have some experience with SierraChart, and am a semi-retired programmer.

My first thought is to just go to the SierraChart website, download a free trial, sign up for a free data trial, and work with it for a while until you can decide if it gives you what you want. Site is here: Sierra Chart

Now some warnings: you will probably start tearing your hair out after about a half hour of navigating the website. This is because, although it is logical once you understand it, it is very hairy until you do. I would add that about the same is true about the documentation (very complete, very hairy) and, for that matter, the platform itself.

With that said, it is fast as hell (although it takes a good time to load up charts). It has probably some version of almost everything you have ever wanted (you will pay a little more -- about 10 bucks/month) for what they call "numbers bars" -- footprint charts (which may be what you mean by "ladder charts", and some of the volume profile stuff, although some VP is in the base version. It is cheap (I think about $25/month without data feed, then you can add in your or their data for something more.) It has something they call, as I recall, FlexRenko, which some UniRenko users have said is the equivalent of UniRenko (I don't use any renko, so I can't say.) Finally, almost every broker (probably not NT ) will connect to it. IB does.

I do not know if it will meet all your requirements. I do not trade the DOM, and while I admire Peter and his work, I do not use Jigsaw, so you will have to see about that.

It does have a robust programming interface if you want to write your own code, but be warned that the documentation was written by the same guy who wrote all the other documentation, so don't expect it to be easy to learn. Also, there are user-coders who occasionally kick in some code, but nothing like on NT. There are a few third-party guys also, but not as many.

Unlike NT, it is written in C++, which runs rings around C# in terms of performance (note to C# enthusiasts: I like C# too, but don't comment me about this, this is what I do for a living ). I assume that it is multi-threaded, and has been for a while, from the way it acts and from the obvious fact that whoever codes it (and writes their docs, etc.) is hardcore. Multi-threading is not simple, mind you, but it is the best choice if you are hard-core enough .

None of this will matter if it doesn't support the functionality you want, but you might check it out.

Other than that, it is quite possible that the third party code you are using in NT is in fact the cause of your problems. The move to multi-threading blew quite a few minds among the NT coding community, as did a number of other changes, some of which (such as properly disposing some objects) used to cause serious memory issues and performance slowdowns. I don't know what you can do about that, other than one-by-one adding in an indicator and testing it, a time-consuming process, as you have said.

I just remembered that Jigsaw has a free-standing platform that runs on its own -- which you probably know about, but it doesn't need NT. I don't know if that is a workable arrangement for you, since it may mean essentially running two platforms at once.

Lastly, although I said a lot in favor of SierraChart, I am moving back to NT, which I am more familiar with and just like better. But SierraChart is still something to look at, and you can look for free.

I hope all this gives you something to work on.

Bob.

Update: I also should say that, since I have come back to NT, I am impressed by it quickness, compared to the old NT. I do think it is likely that it can support what you are looking for, and that some of the third-party code is likely at fault.

You might want to check out some of @gomi's work, which includes volume profile and volume ladders, and who is well-known and trusted in the community. He has some third-party commercial indicators out for NT and Sierra, and I believe he has a free trial. There is a review thread on his current stuff here:

GOMI all NT7/8 & SC; MP & Orderflow @ Gomicators.com from original GOMI GOMI, original creator of GOM MP, has created a fully recoded enhanced multi-platform professional MP (volume based) and Order Flow for delta insights. The new GomMPPro builds upon the open source GomMP hosted on nexusfi.com, and includes multiple …

Also, he may see this and may have an opinion about your performance issues.

Source thread is here:

Platform recommendations please Hi, One of my first posts here. I'm thinking there must be a lot of people who might be able to offer some suggestions based on real-world usage and not marketing fluff! I currently use Ninjatrader 8 and the Jigsaw DOM. Unfortunately, I cannot …

I do think SierraChart is an excellent platform, and a good one for anyone to try out.

Bob.

I respect everything @josh says, and I recall that he never liked NT, and obviously still doesn't.

I do, and I like the NT8 version a lot, having just come to it after staying away to avoid it initial growing pains. I also like SierraChart a lot, and it really has always been a better choice in many ways for a lot of people.

I'll be downloading a Sierra demo this weekend just to test it a little.

Maybe this sounds odd, but from screenshots, I always thought Sierra charts looked a lot less 'beautiful' than the charts on Ninja. I'm a visual guy, so I do like my charts to look good. I've seen some people say Sierra has an 80s look and I feel that's a good description. Anyway...

Maybe not the best thread to ask, but:

1) Does Sierra charts have a good zig zag out of the box?

I don't really like the standard Ninja zig zag. And have thus been using one a trader friend gave me.

2) Does Sierra have a ruler?

One of my favorite things with Ninja.




Thinking of it, I don't use a lot of technical stuff, but I do think Ninja could improve a bit here.

One of the things I really like in my trading is to reference the prior day(s) and current day High/Low/Close. I'd like to have these plotted as horizontal lines for historical data (yesterday and earlier) and also for the day today as it evolves.

NT7 can only offer to plot the OHLC from yesterday on TODAY's chart.

I talked with Ninja about this and they said it wasn't currently available. This is an indicator that my non programmer friend made very quickly.

Shoot me if I'm wrong (I'm at another computer and can't check now), but Ninja did NOT include this in NT 8. I consider this a very basic tool and one that customers have requested, so it's a huge disappointment that they can't bother to add something so basic and simple.