jodistrict 

I was in EOTPRO for a year and lost over a thousand dollars by taking the exact same trades as the moderator. Now that I know a lot more about trading, I can see that the trades the moderator took were obviously bad trades in chop with no trend in sight. The neural network puts arrows in places that just make no sense, and a human with a few indicators can do better. Also when I was there they were changing their system every week even though it was suppose to be the best. I now am studying with Shadowtraders and I am very happy. Unlike EOTPRO - they teach you to trade, it works, and they care. When I listen to the Shadowtraders chatroom, I only get insightful information on the markets and not corny jokes delivered by the annoying smartalick voice of a wannabee comedian.

I just tried their "open house". I couldn't believe the tone of the annoying jackaft sounding host. Reminds me of a similar wisecracking econ teacher in a community college (community colleges can have all kinds of wackos as teachers) who was like that, making cracking jokes about all of us wasting our time going to school and even taking his class. Sheez, if one isn't going to be serious about their product and treats it all like a joke, why bother?

Anyways, they said it's now $233 /month for the room. And they have some new "MRI" automated trading "indicators". And the first moderator said their rooms were going to emphasize more "training" rather than live calls currently. Don't let that big black server front web page background photo fool you. If you look closely at some of those systems in those racks, they look like over 10 year old Dell powervaults.

dandxg 

And I miss Richard from when I was a regular member 3 years ago.

I remember you, Dan! And I'm glad you enjoyed your time with us back then. Sorry for the late reply but I only visit forums about once every 1.5 years LOL.

I see a two-year-old post in this thread that says:

Tundi 

Back in the day, EOT was a decent place for a beginner to learn about futures and indicators without getting roped into alot of hype on buzzwords like NN. Perhaps that had an impact on Richard's decision to move on and do his own thing.

Much belated thanks, Tundi. Yeah, if you look at EOTPro today and compare that to the EOTPro of 2008, you can see that it has changed a lot. Their vision and mine for going forward really didn't match, so I bowed out. The focus seems to be much more on automated trading, and black-box algorithms now.

In a way I can understand that, because even stuff developed many years ago still works fine for discretionary trading. It's not bad tech that kills discretionary daytraders, but bad psychology. If the original tradestation-forum posts from EOTPro are still around, you can see it started out with little more than a MA and a cycle-optimized stochastic. That's more-or-less still how I trade today... just a couple well-chosen indicators and common sense. And I learned a lot of what I do today from Glen and Bill.

So, I get why making black-box products for automated traders is a good way to expand the business, but I'm just not into that. I would have much rather converted into a discretionary hedge fund and dropped the indicator clients altogether.

They still have some of the old magic: I'm in their open-house room today, and Glen is talking, and I still love it. He has so much good trading wisdom to share! He is talking about common-sense trading ideas like when it's good to look for pullbacks, and when it would be a mistake to wait. There's real value there to the discretionary trader. He's talking about cycles and using farming as a metaphor for trading, and I'm all smiles. That's why I wanted to be with them in the first place.