NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Indicators, a waste of time?


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one three86 with 23 posts (35 thanks)
    2. looks_two SkyITL with 19 posts (47 thanks)
    3. looks_3 HiLatencyTRDR HLT with 16 posts (31 thanks)
    4. looks_4 Ecclesiastes with 14 posts (50 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Ecclesiastes with 3.6 thanks per post
    2. looks_two SkyITL with 2.5 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 HiLatencyTRDR HLT with 1.9 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 three86 with 1.5 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 32,466 views
    2. thumb_up 385 thanks given
    3. group 410 followers
    1. forum 220 posts
    2. attach_file 59 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Indicators, a waste of time?

  #141 (permalink)
 SkyITL 
TORONTO ONTARIO canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NINJATARDER
Broker: Ninjatrader,GFF,FXCM World,Interactive Broker
Trading: ES,NQ,GC,CL,YM,6E,6B,6A,Dax
Posts: 46 since Feb 2017
Thanks Given: 13
Thanks Received: 74


goodoboy View Post
Hello msadiq109,

Easier said then done!!

By this time, the trader is in big drawdown following their "setups" and "entry rules" and starring at Realized Losses of all those trades taken by "setups". The only thing on their mind is How do I recover this -$2000ish loss of the day because my "setups" was not reacting well to the "market conditions".

The trader will NOT just "let the day go without trading". The trader will think about those losses and try to recover ALLL day long. We are talking about real trading here with real losses with real money in the account that can be used for vacations and family fun.

Now what is your answer?

I did learn it hard-way after blowing up more than $1.3 Million in about 13 months time in 2015-2016 trading only natural gas(ETFS).I was left with only $200,000.0.I took off for about 6 months. No trading but just reflecting on my mistakes and doing research about natural gas.Some how I figured out something astonishing about Natural gas.The month of April open is not below the month
of April close for about last 4 decades.Then I decided to trade Natural gas only in the month of April.
I changed my ETF account into futures account as you have 24/7 access not like ETf's where you can only trade during cash market hours.Also learnt risk management and developed strategies.In mentioned it in this thread in my previous posts.It is unbelievable that trading only one month of April since 2017
I have recovered about $700,000 only from natural gas.But now I trade multiple instruments.I have not had a loosing month since 2017.Now I have 4 Machines with 15 Monitors attached to one machine and total 60 monitors which show me Big and small picture of all markets I trade.I wait for my trades set ups and really don't chase the market.

You said it rightly easier said than done.Yes it is not easy to do it.But let me tell you which sentence changed me.

""Trading is a marathon and not a sprint"".

This was the sentece I read in 2016 April and since then I changed by mindset. A new person was born and After recollecting myself and developing a well risk managed strategies, I was not only able to recover all my losses in 2020.But Now Except for 3 of 100,000 plus accounts in FXCM, IB and GFF, All I run is funded companies accounts and it is giong very well with me.

If these companies stay in business I will be able to make 100 of Millions without risking my personal money.

Read my previous posts in this thread where I have shown my Macro setups for all Instruments, I trade. And Micro set up for CL as well.

Trading is a battlefield and the best and the most effective weapons for this warfare along with your strategies are patience, discipline and persistence .

If we are not willing to change and equip ourself with these weapons then expect nothing but head shots.

"Doing over and over the same thing and expecting different results is insanity"
Albert Einstein
Pain of change is great but to win you need to change and adopt a winning behavior.

Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Online prop firm The Funded Trader (TFT) going under?
Traders Hideout
New Micros: Ultra 10-Year & Ultra T-Bond -- Live Now
Treasury Notes and Bonds
Deepmoney LLM
Elite Quantitative GenAI/LLM
Futures True Range Report
The Elite Circle
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Get funded firms 2023/2024 - Any recommendations or word …
59 thanks
Funded Trader platforms
37 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
22 thanks
NexusFi site changelog and issues/problem reporting
22 thanks
The Program
20 thanks
  #142 (permalink)
three86
Vista, California USA
 
Posts: 51 since Aug 2020
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 74


cmtrader99 View Post
I was following ES on the reversal this morning... As you may have gone long on the bottom?

today was a repeat of yesterday but I caught it this time:



however mid made a lower low so it is either sideways with a higher high or down with lower high:

Reply With Quote
  #143 (permalink)
 
Joseph Connors's Avatar
 Joseph Connors 
Colorado Springs, CO USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Ninjatrade
Trading: Futures
Frequency: Many times daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 134 since Jul 2012
Thanks Given: 93
Thanks Received: 106



three86 View Post
today was a repeat of yesterday but I caught it this time:



however mid made a lower low so it is either sideways with a higher high or down with lower high:

With the chart that you posted what exactly triggered your entry and where exactly did you enter?

Persistence! Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not ... nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not ... Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not ... The world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent!
Calvin Coolidge
Reply With Quote
  #144 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
Western Florida
Site Moderator
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
Frequency: Several times daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 8,162 since Jan 2013
Thanks Given: 57,343
Thanks Received: 26,267


three86 View Post
today was a repeat of yesterday but I caught it this time:

...

however mid made a lower low so it is either sideways with a higher high or down with lower high:


Joseph Connors View Post
With the chart that you posted what exactly triggered your entry and where exactly did you enter?

Hi @three86,

This thread, whose original topic is "Indicators, a waste of time?", has seen a lot of posts recently where you have discussed the particular indicators you use, and situations describing how you use them. This is not a terrible thing in itself, but for quite a while it has in effect been not about the general question of whether indicators are or can be useful, and simply about yours. And in many posts it is now about particular trades you have done, or your reasoning regarding trades you have done or might think about doing.

It certainly makes sense to answer the general question of indicator usefulness with particular examples, but at some point this discussion should go to another thread or threads that are devoted just to these topics, and the current thread should return to its own topic.

This is particularly the case with the trade discussions, which really belong more in a trade journal. The questions about what your trade trigger and your entry point were are perfectly natural in the context of a trade journal, but not here. You can see that it immediately leads to a discussion about trade particulars, and is far from the original topic.

So I invite you to start another thread, which can be about any topic -- including your indicators, your trades, your view of the markets or anything else that you decide, since it will be your thread.

But let's let this thread return to its original subject now.

Thanks.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #145 (permalink)
cmtrader99
Chicago IL
 
Posts: 7 since Mar 2016
Thanks Given: 9
Thanks Received: 2


three86 View Post
today was a repeat of yesterday but I caught it this time:



however mid made a lower low so it is either sideways with a higher high or down with lower high:

I would actually like to continue this discussion so maybe three86 or myself can post a new post (trading journal) etc.. I would like to continue to get feedback and help concerning the indicators three86 is using. For the purposes of this discussion, you had someone ask if indicators are a waste of time.... I would wholeheartedly disagree with the premise of the question and invite anyone else who uses indicators successfully alongside price action and order flow to continue chiming in. Though I do see your point, however, I find these threads chaotic and hard to navigate at times... so I hope the discussion that me and three86 and others pick up elsewhere... I can find.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #146 (permalink)
three86
Vista, California USA
 
Posts: 51 since Aug 2020
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 74

Indicators are useful to me (probably obvious) and not a waste of my time. I was explaining the what, how, and why of that because I thought it was on topic (instead of just a yes no poll). I am willing to answer whatever I can and anyone is welcome to DM so as not to interrupt this thread.

Here is a link to the trading journal I created

Reply With Quote
  #147 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
Posts: 380 since Dec 2016
Thanks Given: 344
Thanks Received: 246


msadiq109 View Post
I did learn it hard-way after blowing up more than $1.3 Million in about 13 months time in 2015-2016 trading only natural gas(ETFS).I was left with only $200,000.0.I took off for about 6 months. No trading but just reflecting on my mistakes and doing research about natural gas.Some how I figured out something astonishing about Natural gas.The month of April open is not below the month
of April close for about last 4 decades.Then I decided to trade Natural gas only in the month of April.
I changed my ETF account into futures account as you have 24/7 access not like ETf's where you can only trade during cash market hours.Also learnt risk management and developed strategies.In mentioned it in this thread in my previous posts.It is unbelievable that trading only one month of April since 2017
I have recovered about $700,000 only from natural gas.But now I trade multiple instruments.I have not had a loosing month since 2017.Now I have 4 Machines with 15 Monitors attached to one machine and total 60 monitors which show me Big and small picture of all markets I trade.I wait for my trades set ups and really don't chase the market.

You said it rightly easier said than done.Yes it is not easy to do it.But let me tell you which sentence changed me.

""Trading is a marathon and not a sprint"".

This was the sentece I read in 2016 April and since then I changed by mindset. A new person was born and After recollecting myself and developing a well risk managed strategies, I was not only able to recover all my losses in 2020.But Now Except for 3 of 100,000 plus accounts in FXCM, IB and GFF, All I run is funded companies accounts and it is giong very well with me.

If these companies stay in business I will be able to make 100 of Millions without risking my personal money.

Read my previous posts in this thread where I have shown my Macro setups for all Instruments, I trade. And Micro set up for CL as well.

Trading is a battlefield and the best and the most effective weapons for this warfare along with your strategies are patience, discipline and persistence .

If we are not willing to change and equip ourself with these weapons then expect nothing but head shots.

"Doing over and over the same thing and expecting different results is insanity"
Albert Einstein
Pain of change is great but to win you need to change and adopt a winning behavior.

Hello msadiq109,

How long it take to you to recover the drawdown of a loss trade?

Reply With Quote
  #148 (permalink)
 SkyITL 
TORONTO ONTARIO canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NINJATARDER
Broker: Ninjatrader,GFF,FXCM World,Interactive Broker
Trading: ES,NQ,GC,CL,YM,6E,6B,6A,Dax
Posts: 46 since Feb 2017
Thanks Given: 13
Thanks Received: 74


goodoboy View Post
Hello msadiq109,

How long it take to you to recover the drawdown of a loss trade?

At present I trade at least 1:10 Risk Reward strategies and I play a very special strategy with two accounts simultaneously.
Hardly I am net negative on two accounts if some times market is consolidating then it may take an hour or so to be Reasonably positive.

For this purpose I choose real active Market hours like 1st two hours of London Session,1st two and half hour of US session and then Last 30 Min of US session.

Also 8:30 AM Pre Market news.News Trading is the biggest profitable part of my trading.

My max stop loss per attempt is 8-10 ticks for NQ, MNQ, 8 TICKS FOR GC,MGC, 4 Ticks for ES,MES,NG, 3 Ticks for 6A,5 Ticks for 6B,6E,YM,MYM,Dax

I keep taking small losses so draw down never goes deep and if I have 1.2 winning trades out of 10 I am breakeven.For some instruments Like NQ and DAX if I have 5 consecutive losers at one trade setup system stops trading that entry level Except for news because during news risk reward is very High 1:40 to 100 so it does not bother me.

In past It took me 4 years to recover the losses incurred during my 13 Months of trading. Oh boy! that was really tough.

I trade almost all 3 star news events like CPI,PPI Report, Job Report, Retail Sales Report, All central banks interest rates decision events.
Inventory and rig count reports for crude oil , Natural Gas.

Geopolitical prescheduled events Like OPEC Meetings Fed Testimony etc.

I keep eye on chineese events especially as they have huge impact on Gold Movements.
Most of time I play two account pairs so target is to be net positive on two accounts.The losers loses limited amount the winner gets way more than than the loser thereby being net positive and hitting my daily over all trading goal.

Reply With Quote
  #149 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
Posts: 213 since Sep 2019
Thanks Given: 354
Thanks Received: 426

Holy Maccaron! What a story! Very inspirational!!!!!


msadiq109 View Post
I did learn it hard-way after blowing up more than $1.3 Million in about 13 months time in 2015-2016 trading only natural gas(ETFS).I was left with only $200,000.0.I took off for about 6 months. No trading but just reflecting on my mistakes and doing research about natural gas.Some how I figured out something astonishing about Natural gas.The month of April open is not below the month
of April close for about last 4 decades.Then I decided to trade Natural gas only in the month of April.
I changed my ETF account into futures account as you have 24/7 access not like ETf's where you can only trade during cash market hours.Also learnt risk management and developed strategies.In mentioned it in this thread in my previous posts.It is unbelievable that trading only one month of April since 2017
I have recovered about $700,000 only from natural gas.But now I trade multiple instruments.I have not had a loosing month since 2017.Now I have 4 Machines with 15 Monitors attached to one machine and total 60 monitors which show me Big and small picture of all markets I trade.I wait for my trades set ups and really don't chase the market.

You said it rightly easier said than done.Yes it is not easy to do it.But let me tell you which sentence changed me.

""Trading is a marathon and not a sprint"".

This was the sentece I read in 2016 April and since then I changed by mindset. A new person was born and After recollecting myself and developing a well risk managed strategies, I was not only able to recover all my losses in 2020.But Now Except for 3 of 100,000 plus accounts in FXCM, IB and GFF, All I run is funded companies accounts and it is giong very well with me.

If these companies stay in business I will be able to make 100 of Millions without risking my personal money.

Read my previous posts in this thread where I have shown my Macro setups for all Instruments, I trade. And Micro set up for CL as well.

Trading is a battlefield and the best and the most effective weapons for this warfare along with your strategies are patience, discipline and persistence .

If we are not willing to change and equip ourself with these weapons then expect nothing but head shots.

"Doing over and over the same thing and expecting different results is insanity"
Albert Einstein
Pain of change is great but to win you need to change and adopt a winning behavior.


Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #150 (permalink)
slowmoneylife
New York, NY
 
Posts: 8 since Mar 2023
Thanks Given: 6
Thanks Received: 19


It's not just indicators...it's about understanding different TFs...then your charts will begin to tell you a story. That is the holy grail of trading.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:




Last Updated on February 11, 2024


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts