syswizard 

Of course not, but an algo can be: 1) consistent 2) impartial 3) disciplined

Yes. So can a human being.

Many are. And many aren't.

I certainly don't want to get into any algo vs. discretionary dispute, since there are algo traders who are profitable and discretionary traders who are profitable. To me, this means neither is "right", or more "right" inherently than the other.

There are also unprofitable algo traders and unprofitable discretionary traders, and this means exactly the same thing to me: neither is inherently more "right" than the other. But in the right hands, either can work well, which we know from wide and long experience in this forum.

There are benefits to both, and there's a choice to be made, is all.

This could be said about a lot of things in trading, by the way.

Bob.

bobwest 

I will always take the opportunity to point out the "spoos" thread, which is one of the jewels of futures.io. It has stretched over 11 years and is approaching 38,000 posts (not a typo). @tigertrader started it, and it has been posted in by most or all the heavy hitters on the forum over the years. As @josh mentioned, it requires an Elite membership, because not everything in the forum is free (there is a one-time fee, a hundred bucks. That's 2 points in ES, but is still too much for some, which is of course a useful screening tool. ) Not guaranteed, obviously, to improve anyone's trading. Nothing is. Not even guaranteed that you'll like it either. But there's meat there. Your call, obviously. Bob.

meals for a lifetime...

bone up the hondo! it will be worth the money and more!

nenuser 

Hey guys, how are you? As the title says, I cant execute my trading plan. There is no way. I open the trade and as soon as I open it I close it, I can't even wait until the next bar closes or anything of the sort. I have been studying the markets for more than 6 years, I have more than 15000 hours of chart time. I know what I am doing, I know for a fact what is a trade and what is not a trade, I polished my skills, I polished my price action and my plan to perfection. I have no doubts about it being profitable, yet I CANNOT DO IT. It will make me sick I can't stand it anymore. I tried it all, I have read it all about trading psychology (Douglas, all of them), I tried all kinds of different approachs and no matter what I can't do it. It is like an irrational fear, a subconscious fear. If I show you my trade log they all go like "I took a tick" while the real result if held is always my target. I have planned it all, I cant hold it for my dear life. Day after day, I post it all I have it all logged, I know my calls are >80% profitable YET I CANT DO IT. I cant take action. I cant do it. I need help, maybe someone who could beat this or any suggestion please. Thanks for reading and appreciate your replies

Fear is the chain we bind ourselves with.

If you lack courage, then you should study courage.

josh 

When it comes to chart time, you are the king. When it comes to trading for money, you are not. Tiger knows how to make money. You have not yet figured that out. As such, it would be wise for you to put your ego and feelings aside, and listen. I don't always agree with him, but he tends to make more money than I do trading, so I tend to listen. No one is asking you to change anything, nor do they really even care, most likely. My opinion, which you didn't ask for, is that you do not like to be wrong, which just means that you're 100% human. However, in trading, no one really cares that it's your life's work, or how many hours you've sat in front of a computer. No one cares if you make a million dollars in a year -- you don't get a parade or anything. No one cares that you were right on a trade. Trade because you enjoy it, trade to make money, trade for the challenge, or whatever. But don't trade to prove anything to anyone, including yourself, because nobody cares. The sooner you really internalize that, then each trade takes on less meaning. Losing means less, winning means less, and then you can just trade, and not care much about the outcome, because you have removed your ego from the equation. (!!!!!!!) Years ago, I have taken trades and afterward had to lie in the bed because I was sick. I have cried. It's been a long time since then, but I do remember being so invested in succeeding that it practically wrecked my life. I'll spare you the "it's not worth your health" line, but I will get very practical: that guy, me years ago, was *not* a winning trader, precisely because I had too much of my own self-worth tied up into being successful. Let go of the *need* for something to happen, and you'll start to see that it comes to you almost on its own. "It's my life's work" means you're too invested. Right now, you *are* your trading. You won't succeed from that standpoint. I know it's hard, but seriously: let it go. Separate yourself from the market. Just trade. Learn to enjoy losing (small). There's freedom there. Best thing you could do is stop trading for a week, don't even look at the market or quotes, and see what happens. You will have withdrawal, and that means you're too invested, and will never win like that. Get some separation. Put this off for a month, a year, 2 years, and you will be exactly where you are right now. It's your life and time. Heal a little right now for a week or two, or spend the next few years going in a circle. Doubt me at your own peril on this, I recognize what's going on with you because I've seen it in myself.

I can recognize my ego is probably the main thing which hurts my execution. I see myself as not having much ego, but when things come to the time of executing (which opens up the idea of being wrong and being judged on my decision) my ego goes into defense mode and is afraid to be hurt. I dont blame "it" as its doing its job trying to defend me against what I perceive as "danger" too.

"But don't trade to prove anything to anyone, including yourself, because nobody cares." Excellent, thank you.

"that guy, me years ago, was *not* a winning trader, precisely because I had too much of my own self-worth tied up into being successful." This, this is my case.

Thank you for being so empathetic, so clear, and for putting yourself in my spot. I will follow your advice. I need "healthy" detachment. Caring, but not caring too much.

Kefkas Laugh 

Fear is the chain we bind ourselves with. If you lack courage, then you should study courage.

I agree. But it can't be acquired from studying or from a book.

How can I internalize it?

nenuser 

I agree. But it can't be acquired from studying or from a book. How can I internalize it?

You have to be very honest with yourself. I think affirmations are great as long as you affirm the truth: you are a frightened little coward.

fast forward decades to your death bead...image never getting over this fear. what feeling does that give you? probably the pain of regret...regret is soul crushing, regret is supreme suffering.

now fast forward to your death bed once again...imagine having conquered this fear and trading the rest of your life with courageous conviction. what feeling does this give you? more than likely some form of Joy.

the great challenge of life is to experience joy. Suffering is easy, it is the default nature of our existence for some ridiculous reason. there are 2 paths to joy but We will focus on the only one that matters for you. The active path requires you to face your fears. If you refuse, then you will suffer automatically, guaranteed. So why not at least take the chance...you may suffer from failure afterwards, but it is not guaranteed.

edit: perhaps a great book about a courageous individual can help provide inspiration. Inspiration is a powerful ally.

Kefkas Laugh 

You have to be very honest with yourself. I think affirmations are great as long as you affirm the truth: you are a frightened little coward. fast forward decades to your death bead...image never getting over this fear. what feeling does that give you? probably the pain of regret...regret is soul crushing, regret is supreme suffering. now fast forward to your death bed once again...imagine having conquered this fear and trading the rest of your life with courageous conviction. what feeling does this give you? more than likely some form of Joy. the great challenge of life is to experience joy. Suffering is easy, it is the default nature of our existence for some ridiculous reason. there are 2 paths to joy but We will focus on the only one that matters for you. The active path requires you to face your fears. If you refuse, then you will suffer automatically, guaranteed. So why not at least take the chance...you may suffer from failure afterwards, but it is not guaranteed. edit: perhaps a great book about a courageous individual can help provide inspiration. Inspiration is a powerful ally.

this words hit me like a spell. Your words sound wise in the way of the spirit.

They hit me hard, yet vividly helped me follow the emotions your tried to evoke.

Thank you. I will be using them, reading them every morning.

“Information is not knowledge. The only source of knowledge is experience. You need experience to gain wisdom.” Einstein

To learn how to trade, you have to trade to learn -tt

AllSeeker 

This is going to sound little out there, but here it is; Hire someone to execute and exit trades as per your strategy. It could be someone who has never even heard of trading, you just need to make sure that they receive the signal to execute/exit whenever its supposed to be from your strategy to the T. Other alternatives are there, like going complete algo, as already mentioned. Also, I feel underlying problem could be you are trying to trade a strategy that is not suited for you, even if its accurate. Its either much higher in trade time or much higher amount of money on the line then you are willing to risk. This happens surprisingly lot, especially with people who are looking to make trading as primary source of income while not having anything else on going to support them or simply going too big or too fast. If this is true for you, solution is to find a more suited strategy and more comfortable risk amount, for that do a little research on something called "risk profile", identify what's your risk profile, at what level you are mentally secure to risk the amount necessary to trade your strategy. This will sound like gibberish, but I've worked on a project for this very same thing for a private investment company, what they would do is prepare a questionnaire (of above dozens of pages), have prospect fill it and then make a customized investment strategy to meet that prospects needs. Needs here were not as per "stated needs" but "identified needs" through the process, to which prospect was usually completely unaware of till it was presented to them as a conclusion of the process. You will be surprised at the difference in prospects expectation on returns over risk and what was actual doable for the said prospect based on his earnings and financial responsibilities. This project was later removed from the mainstream process since it was reducing companies actual client base. It was an eye opener. Just my 2c. Ignore if I'm not making any sense

Allseeker, thank you for this post. I have been evaluating myself, thinking about what suits me better. And that opened my eyes to considering a lower time frame, same plan, same setups. Doing M1 chart, average holding time should decrease by five times roughly, from 40 minutes in average on the M5 to about 8 minutes on the M1. I am in the process of checking out the stats for M1 trades, gathering MFE to determine what targets work best there.

Can be a great supplement to get me to execute, for shorter periods, doing the same thing. Proves the market is fractal. Today kept the M1 chart up and I could take a much larger % of the signals and best of all hold them to target. I am still evaluating this and M5 is still my main chart, but opened my eyes to the possibility.

Chart below with entries:

OMG! Just shut the fuck up and trade!