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and most important, let us NOT forget we are all trying to predict the future based on something in the past . One use MACD, the other order flow(which if u think about it is also the past even if just 2 sec ago)
any tool is ok. u cant go wrong with any strategy. they are all good and bad at a time.
After few years u will get to this understanding . these are all tools
I started out as a heavy volume order flow scalper professionally. My experience is that trading on order flow is not the way to trade unless you have a ton of experience using some other method. To me, order flow trading is a refinement tool for a previously determined bias and prize zone. But to come in and watch the tape and trade purely from it is a game for veterans who have seen the market evolve over a long period of time rather than someone coming in now and dealing with all of the tricks that systems use to get better fills.
Have you consider a more structural approach? (VP, MP, fib retracements, S/R, Price Action, etc.)
Risk Disclaimer: Trading Futures is not suitable for all investors. Past Performance is not indicative of future results.
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The "best" thing is to find something that makes sense to you, and focusing on that for long enough to have enough data to make a properly informed decision as to whether or not it still makes sense to you.
If it doesn't make sense to you, you won't be able to start the process of building enough trust in the idea to carry out that experiment for long enough to capture the data you need.
I think the same. If there is something better than stricly using order flow as seen on the footprint or the DOM then this is it. Structural approach first and then order flow for some refinement. But the key to seeing potential sources of orderflow which can move a trade to profit, in any market, in any timeframe, is to…
I think sometimes people misunderstand what order flow truly is. Order flow is the end all-be all. There is literally nothing else that moves the market. Just because someone trades on a DOM or uses a volume profile or anything like that does not make them a complete Order flow trader.
Order flow in it's truest form is a skill and not just some methodology or indicator. Those who are proficient in Order flow are able to read the market and analyze how other traders are positioned in the market. And then are able to gage where those positions will or have been liquidated. In other words, they can judge when and where traders are entering and exiting the market. Then they find ideal locations to enter and exit their own trades.
This is the key thing about order flow that you should ALWAYS focus on: The ability to look at a chart and almost instantly be able to recognize where potential stops are located and where people are likely stuck long or short. And THEN implement strategies based on that information. This goes for any time frame (however, the shorter the time frame the more useful it is since other external economic factors play less of an immediate role). Focus on developing the skill of being able to do that then you will be light-years ahead of any other trader that relies only on technical analysis. Incorporate this with good analysis of price action and you are putting yourself in the league of proficient traders. Even the most sophisticated HFT algorithms are coded based on order flow.
TIP: If you are questioning whether to add a tool or indicator to your charts, or to adopt a new strategy, first ask yourself: "Will this help me better gage how other traders position themselves in the market and how they react thus giving me an edge in predicting where price will likely go to." If the answer is no then you should rethink using that tool or strategy. If yes, then you should apply it to your arsenal.
Hmmm…my understanding is that the only entities that have orderflow data are order execution desks like Citadel Securities. They know exactly what the orders are because they have a massive client base. I don’t know how we can duplicate that knowledge. Maybe sudden gaps in prices?
If your trading listed futures products like most traders on the cme you have the same data as everyone else as far as resting limit orders and executed market orders. Nobody knows who has iceberg orders configured where until they are shown by the market. The only thing you don’t have is aggregated in house order flow that some large brokerages/banks have coming from they’re own clients. This is one of the reasons many traders prefer futures in the first place. Now you can say you have no information about all the other derivatives tied to these contracts but that is a different story.
You can get it in your data feed if you are trading futures on the CME exchanges, and there are tools that are available to help interpret it. It's not privileged or secret information.
It's available enough that this thread is attracting a lot of attention, mostly of the "I use it and it's the only way" or the "I don't use it because it's not any good" type of comments.
It's so widely available that practically everyone has an opinion on it, up or down. (Naturally, not agreement. Traders hardly ever agree on anything.)
But you can get some idea of what it's about just from reading here, and feel free to ask for more. (I won't be among those who answer, though. I've never used it and don't know anything at all about it, but I know that many do and swear by it.) Remember that there is always another way to do anything, which will sometimes even work in the right hands.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
I decided to start a thread on No BS Day Trading since I mentioned on another thread I am taking the course and have had several PM's asking me how it is going.
A little background - John Grady who owns the site was a former Prop Trader who focused …
When I started with Jigsaw, their training was not basic enough for me. John Grady (No BS Daytrading) filled that void, although I do not follow his concept of scalping. Jigsaw has since updated their training to include some better order flow 101 foundational instruction.
For pinpointing entries, I have learned Price Action Trading System. Mack publishes a daily chart analysis on YouTube (Mon-Thu):
...and one of his students publishes his trades: [yt]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6BEMEdjs6sPjgZMlC01zQQ[/yt]
Disclaimer: I am not a successful trader in terms of P & L. I still get in my own way, but when I stick to my rules, this stuff works.
CFRN teaches an abbreviated order flow and they have their own price action entry system. I did not catch on to that one very well, but they will provide one-on-one mentoring and have a good system for developing as a trader.
2nd Disclaimer: I do not get anything for these referrals. I have invested 10's of thousands of $ in trading education, and these are the people I feel like I have gotten the best bang for my buck.
Just look at w one minute chart...the wicks will give you a real good idea of where the big buyers and sellers are.
I know of one options trade who used lvl 2 for bounces and rejects...he plots the level and then if the orders are qued up on lvl 2 he’ll enter the position for the bounce or reject scalping large contracts or lots for a small move. According to him the win ratio is the best ever. You can do something similar w/o level 2 using the 1 minute and wicks..also according to him.
IMHO, better to work in your strat and developing performance skills than learning another strat w lvl 2....kiss
