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Traders with 5-10 years of experience but still not profitable


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Traders with 5-10 years of experience but still not profitable

 
lightsun47
Toronto, Canada
 
Posts: 357 since May 2018
Thanks Given: 492
Thanks Received: 296


TWDsje View Post
Trust me kid, I've watched the brightest among us try for years and still fail.

This example was one of the very first bad impressions it had created on me when I joined this board: Giving an advice while being extremely negative.

Yes there are bright minds who have failed but there are also bright minds who have passed this insurmountable test of trading as well! Yes that poster wants to make money quickly and it's hard, but it's not impossible if you have enough patience to learn. Staying biased and saying strict negative things based on your experience of 25 people here doesn't constitute the whole world.

You might be a senior member here, but I will always keep myself positive, doesn't matter who says what.

There is always a way - you just have to find it!

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 SpeculatorSeth   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 780 since Apr 2016
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lightsun47 View Post
This example was one of the very first bad impressions it had created on me when I joined this board: Giving an advice while being extremely negative.

Yes there are bright minds who have failed but there are also bright minds who have passed this insurmountable test of trading as well! Yes that poster wants to make money quickly and it's hard, but it's not impossible if you have enough patience to learn. Staying biased and saying strict negative things based on your experience of 25 people here doesn't constitute the whole world.

You might be a senior member here, but I will always keep myself positive, doesn't matter who says what.

There is always a way - you just have to find it!

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

The point isn't that you aren't going to succeed. The point is that it's not intelligence that is causing the majority of traders to fail. There are systemic reasons why the vast majority of traders fail, and no amount of optimism is going to save you from those forces. If traders want to even stand a chance they have to understand what they're up against. That's not being negative. That's just reality.

- SpeculatorSeth
 
lightsun47
Toronto, Canada
 
Posts: 357 since May 2018
Thanks Given: 492
Thanks Received: 296



TWDsje View Post
There are systemic reasons why the vast majority of traders fail, and no amount of optimism is going to save you from those forces.

So with this statement, it means even here, there are absolutely no successful traders at all, because no one knows what they are against. Interesting.

Maybe I shouldn't be wasting my time either then. Thanks.



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chipwitch's Avatar
 chipwitch 
Nashville, TN
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader, Continuum Data
Trading: MES for now... baby steps
Posts: 322 since Feb 2022
Thanks Given: 230
Thanks Received: 631


lightsun47 View Post
So with this statement, it means even here, there are absolutely no successful traders at all, because no one knows what they are against. Interesting.

Maybe I shouldn't be wasting my time either then. Thanks.

Do you two have a history? Objectively, "vast majority fail" does not equal "no one succeeds". That is a strawman fallacy.

 
lightsun47
Toronto, Canada
 
Posts: 357 since May 2018
Thanks Given: 492
Thanks Received: 296

With that kind of mindset, all one can conclude is no one has and will never succeed. This will be the last reply. Good luck.

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chipwitch's Avatar
 chipwitch 
Nashville, TN
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader, Continuum Data
Trading: MES for now... baby steps
Posts: 322 since Feb 2022
Thanks Given: 230
Thanks Received: 631


lightsun47 View Post
With that kind of mindset, all one can conclude is no one has and will never succeed. This will be the last reply. Good luck.

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. But it most certainly is NOT "all one can conclude." I for one did not conclude that at all.

To succeed at trading, I'm pretty sure the consensus is that being "objective" is paramount and a primary personal trait that we must cultivate and nurture. I was merely trying to point out (gently) that it wasn't objective to equate "vast majority fail" and "nobody ever succeeds". I was merely trying to help. If you insist on seeing those two things as equal, that is your prerogative and I respect that. I just strongly disagree with it.

 
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
Western Florida
Site Moderator
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
Frequency: Several times daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 8,162 since Jan 2013
Thanks Given: 57,341
Thanks Received: 26,267

I'm not going to be taking sides in this post, just advising calm.

The question of what is really true about trading -- especially retail trading -- always has the potential to get people fired up, which is both good and natural. It's good because it inspires discussion and counter-argument, which helps clarify things. It's natural because people are going to disagree anyway, and having a way to express that disagreement and hash it out is good for everyone, and sometimes we can learn something. (Maybe just what we don't agree with, but that's learning. )

Recently we have had such diverse opinions in this thread as:

- We have heard that retail trading is hard but it can be doable
- We have heard that automated algo trading has ruined the ability of retail traders to make any money, and it isn't doable (or, perhaps, is really hard to do)
- We have heard from successful writers of algos, who are not writing the kinds of algos used by high frequency traders, who often get the blame for ruining retail
- We have not heard, in this thread, from any high-frequency traders (yet), but I know for a fact that we have some in the forum
- We have heard from traders who have done well themselves, but who aren't retail and don't see much chance for retail
- We have heard from individual, retail traders who post regularly and who make money regularly even though the algos are out there. There are more elsewhere in the forum.
- We have heard from traders who hope to do well someday
- We have heard from traders who really don't know how long it will take them, and who want to know why it can take so long, and why it may not happen even then (which is a really good question, and the original one for the thread)
- And more.

These can't all be 100% right. But perhaps they are not all 100% wrong either.

When disagreements come up, we just need everyone to not mean it or take it personally. And to remember that a strongly-stated opinion may sound, and may be taken, as personal.

I hope there will be more disagreements and more viewpoints discussed and debated. But I am advising calm. Things can get out of hand if they go back and forth in a personal way, and it's not helpful. Just relax and state your case. This may not be easy when you're sure the other person is wrong. But try.

Also, if you think anyone has stepped over the line, don't take it on yourself to school them. Use the octagonal report icon at the top right of every post, or select the "Report this Post" option in the dropdown from the user's name, and report it to the mods. We read every report, and respond if we think something needs to be done. Let us do this particular job, without your getting into it with anyone else.

Thanks.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
 
 
Tymbeline's Avatar
 Tymbeline 
Leeds UK
Market Wizard
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradovate
Broker: Tradovate
Trading: MES, MNQ
Frequency: Several times daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 644 since Apr 2015
Thanks Given: 2,342
Thanks Received: 1,054


bobwest View Post
I hope there will be more disagreements and more viewpoints discussed and debated. But I am advising calm. Things can get out of hand if they go back and forth in a personal way, and it's not helpful. Just relax and state your case. This may not be easy when you're sure the other person is wrong. But try.


Many thanks, as ever, Bob: your involvement here and your own input have both really turned this into (for all its intermittent difficulties) an interesting, valuable and potentially helpful thread.

To me and I'm sure to current and future other members, too.

 
 subterfuge 
uk
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Broker: amp
Trading: ES
Posts: 179 since Aug 2009

I'm not consistently profitable and i've been trading for MORE than 10 years. 12 hour days at my screen looking at charts. Studying price action. Demo trading. Live trading. Reading etc

I have no ego in this regard, so happy to admit it. I also know (from private convos with traders on another trading forum) that there's many more of us than people think! (very long term losers despite their best efforts)

Some of these guys are thought of as great traders but, like me, they don't actually make money at this

I could write loads about the subject, but not much benefit of doing so, really.

To the question ''So why aren't these people profitable then? What are they missing?''
I'd say a lack of an 'edge'. I've studied charts and TA until i'm blue in the face, but i'm yet to find something that i'd consider an edge. I'm probably just not clever enough, tbh. Money management doesn't make up for a lack of an edge in my opinion.

For a long time I was convinced that this game wasn't possible for us retail guys and that nobody was actually making money at this. Only people selling subs and stuff who can't actually trade themselves (having been around the trading community for a good while now, i've seen LOTS of gurus exposed as fakes so my skepticism was justified)

It was only recently after spending some time in a free discord room I found that I realised there really are people out there who can 'predict' the market with alarming accuracy and regularly make crazy money. Like 20-80k per day! Consistently. I've seen it. Literally before my eyes for months at a time. And no 'guru tricks' (hindsight calls, ambiguous ,nebulous calls etc)

However, unfortunately I don't know how they do it. I'll never give up. I'm in too deep. But i'm pretty sure i'll be where i am in antoher 15 years lol

ps - since i've gotten a few messages about the discord room (100% not my intention!) i'll just say it was a FREE room I stumbled across when covid began and it ran for a year or so with a few amazing traders calling their ES trades live on the mic and showing their statements and screenshares etc to prove it was real (not that one needs any more proof than LIVE real time calls imo. Blew my mind. It is no more though. No longer exists. so don't worry about it)

 
goodoboy
Houston
 
Posts: 380 since Dec 2016
Thanks Given: 344
Thanks Received: 246



subterfuge View Post
I'm not consistently profitable and i've been trading for MORE than 10 years. 12 hour days at my screen looking at charts.

I have no ego in this regard, so happy to admit it. I also know (from private convos with traders on another trading forum) that there's many more of us than people think! (very long term losers)

Some of these guys are thought of us great traders but, like me, they don't make money at this

I could write loads about the subject, but not much benefit of doing so, really.

To the question ''So why aren't these people profitable then? What are they missing?''
I'd say a lack of an 'edge'. I've studied charts and TA until i'm blue in the face, but i'm yet to find something that i'd consider an edge. I'm probably just not clever enough, tbh. Money management doesn't make up for a lack of an edge in my opinion.

For a long time I was convinced that this game wasn't possible for us retail guys adn that nobody was actually making money at this. Only people selling subs and stuff who can't actually trade themselves (havng been around for a while i've seen LOTS of gurus exposed as fakes so my skepticism was justified)

It was only recently after spending some time in a free disord room I found that I realised there really are people out there who can 'predict' the market with alarming accuracy and regularly make 20-80k per day! I've seen it. Literally before my eyes for months at a time. And no 'guru tricks' (hindsight calls, vague calls etc)

However, unfortunately I don't know how they do it. I'll never give up. I'm in too deep. But i'm pretty sure i'll be where i am in antoher 15 years lol

ps - since i've gotten a few messages about teh discord room (100% not my intention!) i'll just say it was a room I stumbled across when covid began and it ran for a year or so with a few amazing traders calling their ES trades live on the mic and showing their statements and screenshares etc to prove it was real (not that one needs any more proof than LIVE real time calls imo. Blew my mind. It is no more though. No longer exists. so don't worry about it)

Hello subterfuge,

I agree with you. I am going on 5 years with no profits year to year. Part of it my fault no putting the right amount of time. But the last 3 years, been really focus on chart reading. Now just have to stay consistent and get better
.

Yes, I agree, I regret the money I invested in trading teachers who do not show their ability to trade their own money for years.

Now I listen to no-one and I will never ever invest in a trading teacher again who can not prove profits year to year. It is just much simplier this way. When you know better you do better.

Thanked by:

 



Last Updated on October 12, 2023


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