Part of my plan is, that the more (cumulative) profits I make on a strategy, the more contracts I trade. All pre-defined in a list, so I only have to follow the plan.

My list didn't get to the 150 contracts and never will. Securing profits into long term investments like real estate would be the safer way to go for me.

wldman 

Brokers charge between 3% and 12% of notional for initial margin. I was quoting my rates, which are near the lower end of that. But you are correct.

So you are talking your broker's day trading rate, right? Or are CME members allowed a lower rate?

I think there are traders and institutions that might trade that volume. But normally as traders become wiser over time, they tend to trade less contracts over a larger timeframe.

Moreover I think that retail traders cannot trade more than 100 contracts per position. I think read this somewhere.

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SBtrader82 

Moreover I think that retail traders cannot trade more than 100 contracts per position.

Bummer, there goes my dream

kevinkdog 

So you are talking your broker's day trading rate, right? Or are CME members allowed a lower rate?

No. I was saying how the calculation works. When I have /ES on I can expand a column in ToS..from the main screen, Monitor tab then Account Statement tab. There is a column "Margin Req"

Hope that helps.

wldman 

No. I was saying how the calculation works. When I have /ES on I can expand a column in ToS..from the main screen, Monitor tab then Account Statement tab. There is a column "Margin Req" Hope that helps.

Thanks, I am still confused (I always go by exhcnage margin requirements), but I don't want to take discussion off track.

To the OPs question, The bottom line is to trade 100 contracts you need a healthy 6 or 7 figure account. And psychologically, most people trading 1-10 lots would not be handle to handle 100 lots all at once.

Avi24 

Hiya! I'm new to FIO and a relative newbie to trading. Ive got a question and hope I dont sound to naive.. I currently trade the ES futures market so my question is regarding the ES. I've been trying to understand why more people dont trade 150-200 contracts at a time. When watching the DOM I see a decent amount of such orders. Yet,from what Ive seen,most retail traders dont buy in such large quantities. Why dont people generally scale up to large level orders like those? Is it because of slippage? Partial fills? Personal ceiling? I dont really think it would move the market in any way,so with proper risk management,why not? What am I missing? Basically,why arent people making millions by trading a large amount of contracts?

Some people are. But they typically don't hang out on internet forums. One well known trader I've seen takes positions in the multiple 100s in the ES and eurex products. As in, 300-500, with clip sizes of about 80-100 each.

So, it's done, yes.

The issue is that the vast majority of traders are simply not that well capitalized. IMHO, most people who have a million or two to swing with in trading may tend to look for other ways to deploy that capital. And even if you had $1M, do you want to risk $7500 per point? In a quiet market, maybe. In volatility, fk no. A 3 point loss with 150 on is 2% of a $1M account. That's a chunk of change.

Also, consider that when you have 150 on, yes, you can hit out, but you'll not get the best fill, so even in the most liquid futures contract on the planet, when you get up to 150 and you see, in today's market, 60 displayed per price for the inside 5 or so prices, you're not too keen on being able to get out at a price you want to be. In a calmer market where they are showing 200-300 per price, it's not quite as big a deal.

wldman 

Many people with a deposit like that trade the "regular" SPU. The e-mini was developed in the late 90's mostly as a "retail tool" I believe.

Not since September of this year! Big SP said goodbye with SPU21.

ES may have started as a retail tool, but SP hasn't traded more than 5% of the daily notional of ES in several years (I'd usually see < 10K SP's, equating to 50K minis, or about 5% on a ~1M volume day). It's the hedging vehicle of choice for SPX MM's, from what they tell me.

For longer term positions the SP may have had some value, but given the lack of ability to trade it electronically, and the fact that the pit has had no impact on price discovery for years, I'm not sure I see an advantage to phoning a broker versus clicking a mouse, in the last decade or so anyway.

Yeah. I thought that it was a rhetorical question. Size trades on the regular contract, not the mini. Professionals would be using professional leverage or at the least portfolio margin...so the question was like "why don't airplanes float?" Because they were not built for the sea. Likewise, what you are saying is true even a 10 lot would move at $125 per tick $500 per handle. On a typical day /Es puts in a 40 plus handle range or $20,000 in p/l swing. Most retail traders I know are not capitalized for that or prepared to the ride.

wldman 

Yeah. I thought that it was a rhetorical question. Size trades on the regular contract, not the mini. Professionals would be using professional leverage or at the least portfolio margin...so the question was like "why don't airplanes float?" Because they were not built for the sea. Likewise, what you are saying is true even a 10 lot would move at $125 per tick $500 per handle. On a typical day /Es puts in a 40 plus handle range or $20,000 in p/l swing. Most retail traders I know are not capitalized for that or prepared to the ride.

I stand corrected about size trades in SPU. Back in the day size traded SPU. LOL