Howard Roark 

No worries. I had 3 days left of the evaluation, so I could easily have accepted that loss and not doubled down on that last trade. I think I just became extra careless after having learned that my 10K of profits would be 5 months away anyway. If I had a prospect of actually getting paid I think I would have been more disciplined.

Yes, it is interesting what can happen to oneself when one is done with an "issue".
In some points one gets careless, which can cause problems. Shouldn't happen in trading as well as in other areas of life, but it happens all the time.

MR79

Howard Roark 

For transparency - I blew my evaluation account with Apex on Tuesday. I actually hit my target on Tuesday with $9500 in my account after 7 trading days. At that point I had zero losing days and only 2 small losing trades over 7 days trading 5 contracts. I settled on a scalping method which worked really well for me with a 96 % win rate. By then, I should have scaled down or just stopped trading, but I took another trade next which was a loss. Down $1250. I then doubled down with 10 contracts on the next trade and my account was liquidated for a $3.5K loss on that day, but since it's a trailing drawdown on unrealized profits, I was down $5K on the day from that peak. So, the account balance was around + $6K when I got liquidated. The obvious mistake I did was to double down on 10 contracts, but truth be told I became a bit reckless and careless after I learned about the withdrawal policy. If I knew I had $10K in sight by end of next month I would probably have acted wiser. If I thought Apex is a great deal I would sign up again or reset, but I'm done with these firms once and for all now. I jumped on the Apex offer as it seemed really great, but I missed the part about withdrawals. The good thing to come out of this is that I've adopted a scalping approach which have been working really well for me as I had to adopt to the trailing drawdown. So I'll continue trading that in my live account.

I trade different styles on combines... due to the drawdown rules

Howard Roark 

For transparency - I blew my evaluation account with Apex on Tuesday. I actually hit my target on Tuesday with $9500 in my account after 7 trading days. At that point I had zero losing days and only 2 small losing trades over 7 days trading 5 contracts. I settled on a scalping method which worked really well for me with a 96 % win rate. By then, I should have scaled down or just stopped trading, but I took another trade next which was a loss. Down $1250. I then doubled down with 10 contracts on the next trade and my account was liquidated for a $3.5K loss on that day, but since it's a trailing drawdown on unrealized profits, I was down $5K on the day from that peak. So, the account balance was around + $6K when I got liquidated. The obvious mistake I did was to double down on 10 contracts, but truth be told I became a bit reckless and careless after I learned about the withdrawal policy. If I knew I had $10K in sight by end of next month I would probably have acted wiser. If I thought Apex is a great deal I would sign up again or reset, but I'm done with these firms once and for all now. I jumped on the Apex offer as it seemed really great, but I missed the part about withdrawals. The good thing to come out of this is that I've adopted a scalping approach which have been working really well for me as I had to adopt to the trailing drawdown. So I'll continue trading that in my live account.

BY your own admission , you traded bad-doubling down, not respecting your own mental frame etc etc Would you trade your own account this way ?

From your post i dont understand how you got liquidated at 6k when you already made $9500 for the target so the traling drawdown should have already stopped trailing at your starting balance +$100. SO you mean to say you lost the entire $9400 to be liquidated after taking a loss of $1200 after having a 96% win rate ? Something doesnt seem right about your whole post.

Get funded then blame the company. I am not taking the company's side but your post is very disingenious at best especially since the blame for trading bad lies entirely lies on you. If there was a glitch with trading system or a "gotcha" rule like Topstep has then I could commiserate with you but poor trading is no excuse. You blew up once you had a loss and the typical ego took over on a "96%" win rate system how could you lose ? This whole thread is lame - Apex, leelo and Oneup have the fewest rules still traders cant do the minimum. Its a performance sport and sooner you understand this the better it is for u.

garyboy275 

BY your own admission , you traded bad-doubling down, not respecting your own mental frame etc etc Would you trade your own account this way ? From your post i dont understand how you got liquidated at 6k when you already made $9500 for the target so the traling drawdown should have already stopped trailing at your starting balance +$100. SO you mean to say you lost the entire $9400 to be liquidated after taking a loss of $1200 after having a 96% win rate ? Something doesnt seem right about your whole post. Get funded then blame the company. I am not taking the company's side but your post is very disingenious at best especially since the blame for trading bad lies entirely lies on you. If there was a glitch with trading system or a "gotcha" rule like Topstep has then I could commiserate with you but poor trading is no excuse. You blew up once you had a loss and the typical ego took over on a "96%" win rate system how could you lose ? This whole thread is lame - Apex, leelo and Oneup have the fewest rules still traders cant do the minimum. Its a performance sport and sooner you understand this the better it is for u.

Are you dense?

The trailing drawdown does NOT stop trailing with a simulated account. This only applies to live accounts.

The same thing happened with phantomtrader as explained here:

Any long term success stories from funded traders in these get-funded programs? I hit the wall today with LeeLoo. Here's why: The trailing drawdown is from the highest equity point. What happened was that there were a few breakout trades where I would extend my profit target. However, my exits were in areas where the market …

My account was liquidated on a $5K drawdown from an unrealized equity high.

I most certainly did not blame anyone else than myself for the loss and I still don't, but I decided to not try again as I simply consider it a terrible opportunity for any serious trader as it's by design set up for failure and if you're funded you'll have to wait forever to see any funds on your account.

Get your facts straight before you call anyone disingenious again.

Just for illustration - this shows the stupidity of the trailing drawdown rule Apex and LeeLoo use:

Let's say you're up $15K after 10 days of consistent and successful trading. Let's say your win rate is 100% and you're a fantastic trader.

On your next trade, you take on 10 contracts. That's $500 ES per points. The trailing drawdown is $5000. That's 10 ES points.

So, you have a great entry and the trade goes 20 points in your favour very quickly, but you're a bit slow on the trigger and manage to close it out only for a 8 point profit giving back 12 points of unrealized profits.

Great job, right? 8 ES points = $4000.

Your account size is now $19K and you still have a 100% win rate.

But guess what? According to the trailing drawdown rule your account just got eliminated because you gave back 12 points of profit = $6000.

"Dear sir. You just violated our trading rules, but nice job racking up $19K of profits without a single losing day / trade.

Feel free to reset for $100 and try again"

DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A COMPANY THAT'S FUNDING TRADERS?

Howard Roark 

Just for illustration - this shows the stupidity of the trailing drawdown rule Apex and LeeLoo use: Let's say you're up $15K after 10 days of consistent and successful trading. Let's say your win rate is 100% and you're a fantastic trader. On your next trade, you take on 10 contracts. That's $500 ES per points. The trailing drawdown is $5000. That's 10 ES points. So, you have a great entry and the trade goes 20 points in your favour very quickly, but you're a bit slow on the trigger and manage to close it out only for a 8 point profit giving back 12 points of unrealized profits. Great job, right? 8 ES points = $4000. Your account size is now $19K and you still have a 100% win rate. But guess what? According to the trailing drawdown rule your account just got eliminated because you gave back 12 points of profit = $6000. "Dear sir. You just violated our trading rules, but nice job racking up $19K of profits without a single losing day / trade. Feel free to reset for $100 and try again" DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A COMPANY THAT'S FUNDING TRADERS?

Traders funding business model(s) have been discussed before. While one could argue about the morality, Apex and other funding firms are quite clear from the beginning about its rules. If you choose to trade 10 contracts, risking 125$ per tick, while knowing trailing threshold is from unrealized gains, who really is in fault?
Apex and Leeloo both have Non-Trailing Static package as well. Why not go for that, if this is your only problem.

It has become clear that lots of beginner traders, when they look at the packages, do not really understand them well. For example 150K account is not really a 150K account. It is quite clear that with $5,000 trailing threshold it is really risky to trade 10 contracts at time.

With 150K account you get 17(34 Micros) contracts to trade. Its quite clear that this risk is inflated to offer abnormaly high risk parameters for traders. No sensible trader would go all-in with 17 contracts, when trailing drawdown is calculated from unrealized gains. Even 5 contracts seems a lot.

You could look up a Monte Carlo Simulation. Run in with your historic stats with 10lots on 150k account, while risking 1-2 points and you can see that statistically your ruining% is quite high even with high winrate% while you only have 5k safety net. This is not me saying that your trading is not solid, its just size you use statistically it is highly likely you will hit max consecutive losses in a row that with 10 contracts is >5k

Howard Roark

No worries. I had 3 days left of the evaluation, so I could easily have accepted that loss and not doubled down on that last trade. I think I just became extra careless after having learned that my 10K of profits would be 5 months away anyway. If I had a prospect of actually getting paid I think I would have been more disciplined.

Excuse me for being direct, but seems to me you are rationalising your hidden high-score neuroticism that will come again and again in your trading, and ruin all your best efforts.

You have two options to solve this:

- integrate your shadow
and/or
- fully automate your trading

With that you'll pass an evaluation and stay funded to take your profits and THEN fund your Broker's account.

andrej 

Excuse me for being direct, but seems to me you are rationalising your hidden high-score neuroticism that will come again and again in your trading, and ruin all your best efforts. You have two options to solve this: - integrate your shadow and/or - fully automate your trading With that you'll pass an evaluation and stay funded to take your profits and THEN fund your Broker's account.

Maybe you're right.

I'm trading my own account now, though. From my perspective, E2T is the only viable option right now. If at some point I were to try again with any firm it would be them. Apex/LeeLoo is simply not a good option.

Thank you for your concern.

Howard Roark 

From my perspective, E2T is the only viable option right now.

Slightly off-the-topic, maybe, in a thread headed "Apex" but (as always) I'm "with you almost all the way".

My own perspective is that E2T and Topstep are the two potentially viable options (with FTMO third-choice, not least because they've just extended the time-limit for the Challenge ... but their offering is arguably a whole different ball-game altogether as they're not a funding company in the first place).

Howard Roark 

If at some point I were to try again with any firm it would be them.

The Ryan Masten debacle does seem a more distant memory, now, and maybe that goes for me, too. Still undecided, as ever!

Howard Roark 

Apex/LeeLoo is simply not a good option.

I've always agreed with that. I can't take either seriously at all.

Howard Roark 

Maybe you're right. I'm trading my own account now, though. From my perspective, E2T is the only viable option right now. If at some point I were to try again with any firm it would be them. Apex/LeeLoo is simply not a good option. Thank you for your concern.

Happy to help. I've got funded for the E2T's Gauntlet (not mini) 3 years ago, and got real live account right away (no sim). I've traded it for several months, and requested/received payments. I placed orders with Rithmic Pro, NT8 was not supported. For US based traders there are different accounting rules, outside use W8 form. If you decide to try them make sure you ask all possible questions that come to your mind, so you do not get any surprises later. I got 70:30 profit split, but expected 80:20 etc.

I've said this before.. if you have a real edge, and stick to your rules/plan, you can pass any evaluation or stay profitable being funded or with a broker. Just release the tension of looking after "the best" funding traders platform. Also release the tension to make it big asap. Treat trading as a child's play, it really is for retail traders. Many children get upset and revengeful with other competitive games too. Sometimes they get bored and brake the rules..

Another thing, have you noticed any change in your perception or did you decide to change the plan trading your account.. are you scalping, go for longer shots, both?