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ApexTraderFunding.com experience and review

  #91 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
Western Florida
Site Moderator
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
Frequency: Several times daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 8,162 since Jan 2013
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chipwitch View Post
I'm still on the fence about these "prop" firms. But I'm probably going to limit myself to about another $1000 dollars loss in my own account before I give one of them a try. Mostly it's just a way for me to straddle the fence between paper trading and full on live trading my own money. I still don't have the confidence I think I should have.

Without offering an opinion on Apex or any other firm, I think that many people are probably better off just trading their own money in the micros, and having the inevitable losses that are the price of admission, and learn about real risk management by using (and sometimes losing) real money.

I personally think that people who are already pretty decent traders but who lack capital may be the best ones to see if they can get funded by a prop firm. If they already know the ropes and just need backing, this can perhaps be helpful for them.

Then there are those who are in-between, and if they are willing to pay a couple of hundred per month (not per trade ), then they might also want to use these firms, as a half-way point between pure, risk-free sim and real, risky trading. It's not enormously better than pure sim, but it may be a little, because they will get a little whiff of what risk-taking is. And truly, compared to the loss of 2-3 points in ES ($50/point per contract), which is about a reasonable stop-loss on one trade, only paying $165 per month is not that much. But it is a cost.

What these firms are not very good for is over-optimistic and over-confident beginning traders who expect to get rich quickly, because they expect to get funded quickly, but who don't have much real experience. They will be the ones who grumble about how the prop firm's rules were unfair to them, when they blow up the account, as many will.

I'm not meaning to be hard on anyone. Blowing up an account can be a good learning experience. If nothing else, it gives one a sense of what trading is really about.

I think if people are careful about what they expect and hope to get out of a prop firm tryout account, it may (or may not) prove to be helpful to them. People will have to realistically consider where they actually are, and decide what will help them, given that assessment.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #92 (permalink)
Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
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bearpondtrader View Post
So in effect, once you're funded and the 5k is added, but never paid out, you have assured the funding company of no possible loss. You are only risking your profits.

Yeah. The one thing to keep in mind is that you're never really "funded".

There are no 50,100,150 or 300K accounts. Just margin and that's margin you usually have to earn yourself. As soon as you lose that margin, you're gone.



chipwitch View Post
It seems to me that these prop companies' business model is a scam in the same way insurance is a scam. I'm still undecided on both, lol. @bobwest has the right of it wrt the risk per trade. It is higher than what any of us should be risking in our own accounts, on a percentage basis. Clearly, the ES is not advisable. It is a MUCH higher risk than I'd be willing to take in my own account with so little capital. The MES is viable, but then even for the 25k account, Apex's goal of 1500 is a lot to ask of the MES unless you have a proven strategy already. I'm not saying it can't be done, but if you average $10 profit (2 ticks) per trade and have a 1:1 r/r and win half the time, you need to do 300 contracts. That's very possible, but if you can do it, you're better off doing it in your own personal account.

Essentially, they extract a premium in exchange for limiting great potential loss... just like insurance companies. That being said, State Farm has way more of my money than what they've had to pay out on my behalf.

I'm still on the fence about these "prop" firms. But I'm probably going to limit myself to about another $1000 dollars loss in my own account before I give one of them a try. Mostly it's just a way for me to straddle the fence between paper trading and full on live trading my own money. I still don't have the confidence I think I should have.

It really depends on how you define a scam, IMO.

It could be considered a scam in that they don't really provide what they're advertising, i.e., a funded account or "funding" traders. And the account sizes are simply misleading as what you're usually "given" is $2-5K of margin at best. Not to mention all the fine prints they don't directly go out of their way to advertise.

It is an opportunity for a skilled trader, though. However, I don't think it's a good opportunity. If you're skilled enough to pass, you should simply just trade your own money. Or if as some others you pass by using low, low leverage and a long time to reach your target, then what's the use anyway. Might as well trade micros in your own account using the same money you're using to pay for these programs.

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  #93 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
Western Florida
Site Moderator
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
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Phoenixoboros View Post
Are funded accounts orders really submitted to the exchanges and make it into the orderbook?
A prop firm funding talent recently went down and they didn't even submit funded account orders to the exchanges, it way all simulated in their virtual book.

Hi @Phoenixoboros.

This is a word-for-word duplicate of another post you made in another thread, here:



The question is not irrelevant to funded accounts, but it is not specific to Apex, the topic of this thread, and in general we do not want duplicate posts in different threads, nor posts that are not really on-topic. It makes topics just that much harder for others to follow.

Please don't make these duplicates. I am deleting this one. The other one can still be found in the other thread.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #94 (permalink)
 vantojo 
Vilcabamba, Ecuador
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Trading: NQ, UB
Posts: 204 since Jul 2012

Hello,

I assume Apex is monitoring and will respond...

1) would it be possible to get a copy of the funded account application? (when one passes the evaluation period)

2) I would like to pay the monthly fees from the account profits rather than a credit card. Is this possible?

3) Is there a link to the Live Trailing Threshold discussion/examples?

Thanks

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  #95 (permalink)
TraderCornel
Redmond, WA
 
Posts: 21 since Dec 2013
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Merkd1904 View Post

  • No daily loss limit
  • Only 10 days for an eval
  • You can trade till 4:59 EST
  • No lot limits or scaling plans
  • you can hold positions through econ prints, news, and holidays
  • $80 resets
  • Can trade a massive list of futures markets (will post list below)



    And then


  • The account comes with a NinjaTrader8 license key
  • Rithmic (top of book) data feed
  • The first 10k is the trader's (with withdrawal restrictions on your first four withdrawals)
  • A 90/10 split after the first 10k
  • only a $85/month fee for data and upkeep once funded
  • Unlimited amount of live accounts, but it states on their website they reserve the right to cap. Meaning yes, you can buy 20 accounts run a trade copier and go to town. They even teach you how to do it on the website
  • Once funded the trailing max drawdown stops trailing (like how i understood it) at your MTD +$100

[/B]

you forgot rogue orders, stuck orders and the trailing profit from the high of the trade.

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  #96 (permalink)
TraderCornel
Redmond, WA
 
Posts: 21 since Dec 2013
Thanks Given: 5
Thanks Received: 9


ApexTraderFunding View Post
Hi Garyboy, we do have a phone number which is listed on the bottom of the About page. We also have a live chat option. But honestly, since we are growing so fast all of our help desk representatives are busy with answering tickets all day long.
We also do a lot of remote sessions to help our clients to get everything up and running as fast as possible, which is quite time consuming as you can imagine.

Marion

you do not have a number at the bottom of the page, or a live chat. all lies.

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  #97 (permalink)
TraderCornel
Redmond, WA
 
Posts: 21 since Dec 2013
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ApexTraderFunding View Post
We are definitely not a scam though.
Good luck on your journey :-)

LOL. Rogue orders, Stucks orders, oh, and that "morning report". Let me guess, they just happened by themselves. You must think we are all idiots.

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  #98 (permalink)
 
matthew28's Avatar
 matthew28 
United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Bookmap
Broker: Stage 5, Rithmic
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
Posts: 1,250 since Sep 2013
Thanks Given: 3,500
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TraderCornel View Post
you do not have a number at the bottom of the page, or a live chat. all lies.

I have never used Apex Trading, I just looked at their About page and can see the telephone number and a help box.
Whether the help box becomes live chat during US market hours I don't know, (I'm looking in the UK morning), but they certainly have a telephone number so clearly that isn't a lie.


https://apextraderfunding.com/about.html

You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
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  #99 (permalink)
Baudo
Utrecht, Netherlands
 
Posts: 42 since May 2019
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TraderCornel View Post
LOL. Rogue orders, Stucks orders, oh, and that "morning report". Let me guess, they just happened by themselves. You must think we are all idiots.

monitor through Rithmic instead of your platform

things can go wrong when changing your orders at the last moment, especially when the order is already sent
platform is sierrachart in my case

Always have Rithmic open for a check. On the apex site there is also a kill-all orders and positions button, which registers your time of request. Especially when using a trade copier you need to be very alert, because not all orders get necessarily filled

if you fail to close an order you have a 50-50 chance it will harm or benefit your PnL
so how can that be a scam


just don't trust your platform NT8 or SC, only Rithmic.
And set a max dayloss in Rithmic for protection, in case something goes wrong.


I've also noticed my orders get set to the exchange, so it's not all SIM

---

I have multiple accounts several performance and several evaluation accounts.
Since I use a trade copier you can spread risk over several smaller accounts or trade simultaneously (there are some caveats, though).

This is smarter because:
- less effort, better profit target-to-drawdown-ratio (for 50k it's 3000 PT versus 2500 DD -> 120%; for 150k its 9000 PT vs 5000dd --> 180%) ; ,
- you can get more payout the first three months with multiple smaller accounts (for example 2x50k: 2x2,5k = 5k payout limit) than one big one (150k: 2750 payout limit).

When they gave 80% discount recently I've added some additional accounts, the pricing is ridiculously competitive with other firms. I think it was 30$ for a 50k account or smth.

Unfortunately blew my previous one during the first 25 trading days, so no experiences with payouts yet.
I'll let you know when that happens.

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  #100 (permalink)
 
ApexTraderFunding's Avatar
 ApexTraderFunding   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 37 since Jan 2022
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vantojo View Post
Hello,

I assume Apex is monitoring and will respond...

1) would it be possible to get a copy of the funded account application? (when one passes the evaluation period)

2) I would like to pay the monthly fees from the account profits rather than a credit card. Is this possible?

3) Is there a link to the Live Trailing Threshold discussion/examples?

Thanks

Hi Vantojo

Since the agreement was sent to you per email you have a copy right there
The monthly fees have to be paid by credit card and can't be taken from your profits

There is a link, but I am not sure if I am allowed to post it here,
Best option is to submit a ticket to us.

Hope that helps a little bit

Thx Marion

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