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Any long term success stories from funded traders in these get-funded programs?
I don't really know anything about these firms, except for TopStep. I did their Combine some years ago, to no success, by the way.
My not succeeding was due to the fact that I couldn't trade for shit. I'm amazed how many people won't just say this. If you look at their rules, they are not too weird. The one that is most unpopular is that you have to not lose more money than they want you to. The greatest amount of discussion and criticism I have read comes down to diagreeing with how much money a trader should be able to lose before being told they didn't make it. I have read a huge amount of hair-splitting and complaining over the years about how it's unfair not to be allowed to lose just a little more than whatever the trader lost. Surprise.
The other major complaint is the amount they charge, which supposedly proves they are in business to rip you off. One contract of ES is worth $50 a point. How often do you lose one or two or three points and not think twice about it, in one trade? But 3-4 points adds up to just about the monthly fee ($165 for the 50K Combine at TopStep.)
My own view is that a lot of people probably should not trade under these rules, because they are more in tune with short-term, in and out trading, with quick cutting of losses and overall very small drawdowns. If your style doesn't fit this, don't try to make it fit. But the rules overall are pretty simple, and anyone who thinks they can trade should be able to see whether they can trade by them or not. Failure to thrive under them does not mean someone was ripped off or wickedly taken advantage of.
Again, the only one of these I know anything about is TopStep. I felt they were responsive and straightforward, and I have no illusions whose fault it was that I had the losses I had. If they had had different rules, tailored just for me, would I have been a better trader? Nope. Their rules did not make me click the mouse at the wrong time.
It's hard to be responsible and to see things as they are. But we really should. And by all means, if you don't fit well with TopStep or any of the others, then move on. There are other ways to get started, such as trading micros.
These are controversies that probably will go on forever. I just wanted to put my oar in for a brief time. Your mileage, of course, may vary.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Glad to hear you taking full responsibility as that's key in life.
As most people won't make the program they would be better off practicing for free in a simulator themselves in my opinion. That's my advice to be honest. And if I were to do things all over I would practice a LOT more in simulator instead of risking and losing real money. Then, if results are getting good in a simulator and you don't have money to trade with - maybe such a program would be worthwhile.
I'm sure the biggest problem as with real trading is that traders use too much leverage. Just because you can trade 15 contracts doesn't mean it's a good idea. That's an instant 3750 drawdown on a 5 point stop-out.
I agree with this. For the most part, traders who can't trade profitably yet probably should be trading on sim or using small amounts to trade the micros. There is a large advantage to the micros over sim, in that you do have something actually at risk. At some point a person will have to find out how to trade while there's something real at stake. But I think these funding programs are often too big a lift to someone starting out.
I think that the best person to try the Combine, or whatever program, would be someone who is good enough to pass it but is short of funds to put at risk.
Total truth.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
design an automated trading system that anyone can just turn on and pass the combine.
Sody
"The great Traders have always been humbled by the market early on in their careers creating a deep respect for the market. Until one has this respect indelibly engraved in their makeup, the concept of money management and discipline will never be treated seriously."
Just for fun, I am going to take on this challenge, I am going to build a strategy designed to pass the Topstep first combine. I can focus on the second combine later.
I very well may fail at this, as I am not a perfect trader like everyone else. But I have had my successes, and would like to invite anyone to follow along and provide any insight/ideas on how the strategy can achieve this. At minimum it will be a fun project and people that struggle developing trading systems may find it useful.
Cheers,
Sody
"The great Traders have always been humbled by the market early on in their careers creating a deep respect for the market. Until one has this respect indelibly engraved in their makeup, the concept of money management and discipline will never be treated seriously."
It's not like I am sharing the system I currently have running, I don't trade under the same parameters that TST wants me to. I trade spreads, they tend to be less sexy than outright, but I achieve much more consistent returns that way.
Plus, I don't mind giving back to Futures.io, there is some useful information on this site. More of a community than other places on the web.
Oh, and you should consider paying for the elite section (join the dark side, we have cookies), there is a lot of great information there, not to mention anything I share is typically there.
Cheers,
Sody
"The great Traders have always been humbled by the market early on in their careers creating a deep respect for the market. Until one has this respect indelibly engraved in their makeup, the concept of money management and discipline will never be treated seriously."
You may not be aware of the standards of civility that are required on this site. Let me explain them to you.
All members are expected to be civil and professional, and to refrain from personal remarks toward others. You can easily disagree without being disrespectful.
The material in your post is very nearly rude enough to have you banned. If you had not made other posts that had some value, it would have been enough.
The fact is that you have no idea of the experience of the person you are being dismissive toward. Even if he were totally inexperienced it would not be acceptable to be dismissive and scornful in this way.
Your post has been deleted for rudeness. Please follow forum standards of civility in the future, or find another place on the internet that allows this behavior.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Spread trading is very fundamental, seasonal, and trends with less noise. so I am not sure why you would want to trade outrights if you actually understood spreads. It reminds me of the movie Moneyball, so I am not going to hit a lot of home runs, but I am going to get on base more.
To clarify, I do not day trade spreads, I trade them over long periods, months even. And my spread trading is very much so NOT fake,
You don't have to listen to me, not like I am a professional trader.. Oh wait I am, I trade professionally and own my own asset management firm, and have traded spreads for a hedge fund as well. To be honest I really don't share any of my spread trades here on this site, just indicators and in this situation sharing a strategy for the first time. A day trading system, that some might find helpful some might not, and that is okay.
Either way best of luck!
Sody
"The great Traders have always been humbled by the market early on in their careers creating a deep respect for the market. Until one has this respect indelibly engraved in their makeup, the concept of money management and discipline will never be treated seriously."
Are you able to trade exchange traded spreads with Ninja or Ninja strategies?
One drawback of the standard Tradestation platform is you cannot trade Exchange traded spreads. This means you have to leg in and out, which is costly and cumbersome. Also makes algo creation very tough with historical data.
Just wondering if Ninja is different in that regard.
