Howard Roark 

I agree with this, BUT, fundamentally, the business model is all the same and I do not see anything which suggests they actually want to fund and back a trader. It seems like TST have the best reputation and possibly for a good reason. They may also be one of the firms which actually lets you trade a real account. But, I don't see anything to suggest they want you to succeed, nor have I seen any reports of TST backing any serious talent. Exactly. You may want to re-read this thread and my own particular experience with OneUp. In short, they liquidated my account on the grounds that I broke a rule (true). At that point my account had $7K of profits in my funded account and I was never in negative territory, nor did I exceed any maximum size parameters or hit any drawdown rules. The way I see it is that if they really wanted to fund me and have me succeed, they would have given me a warning as they are known to have a 2-strikes-and-you're-out policy, but seeing how they're not and would actually have to pay me out of their own pocket it was a good opportunity for them to get rid of me. Some will interpret this as me being a bad loser and not taking responsibility. Most certainly not! I've lost plenty of money in the market and never blamed anyone but myself as that's the only way you can ultimately succeed in this game. If I recognized these programs as a genuine opportunity to get some capital to trade for I would have done it again, but I now see it for what it is. Also, you'll find that virtually ALL of these firms have one set of rules for the try-out and another as soon as you're funded. You think it's easier as soon as you're funded? Hell no. Much more restrictions and rules. OneUp even have this silly rule where they can literally get rid of you if your volume transacted is below a certain % of your evaluation volume. Even if you're profitable. And Topstep recently added a rule about how you can NOT withdraw all your profits at once. It's all ridiculous. A scam? No. But not too far from it, IMO.

Earn2trade and Apteros have no special rules for the funded account and both let you trade the real market and not in Sim. The strange rules from Leeloo and Oneup stopped me from doing business with these companies.

nikto 

Earn2trade and Apteros have no special rules for the funded account and both let you trade the real market and not in Sim. The strange rules from Leeloo and Oneup stopped me from doing business with these companies.

That may have been true until very recently as Earn2Trade now have what they call an EOD drawdown rule they're shamelessly promoting. Here's what automatically pops up when I open their website:





Don't be afraid of price waves? I mean - what the hell? It sounds like some kind of joke.

They do however NOT go out of their way to share that it does not apply to their live account. I saw some would-be trader on another site being really happy about this rule only to learn later on it did not apply to the live account.

Howard Roark 

They do however NOT go out of their way to share that it does not apply to their live account. I saw some would-be trader on another site being really happy about this rule only to learn later on it did not apply to the live account.

Can you show me where in their documentation it shows that?

Howard Roark 

Let's all hope for that. I'm practicing a few hours on my simulated account now. Busy days and re-locating. I could trade small size (MES) in my real account, but knowing myself I might be tempted to trade bigger. So, waiting until I'm settled in my new apartment with any serious trading. Oh. And I decided not to take up the E2T offer. Pretty much considered these companies ain't worthwhile at this point. They're more like a casino where a proficient trader can be able to pass the combine, take out profits (yes, these companies pay out even if they may not want to), but at the end of the day I don't think they really want to FUND a trader.

I made the cut with OneUpTrader. Had to explain to them that, due to family issues, had to delay my start. Doing fine with them now - no problems.

TWDsje 

Can you show me where in their documentation it shows that?

What are the Differences Between the Gauntlet Mini? and the LiveSim/Live Accounts? | Earn2Trade Help Center

phantomtrader 

I made the cut with OneUpTrader. Had to explain to them that, due to family issues, had to delay my start. Doing fine with them now - no problems.

Glad to hear it.

I'm quoting mcjackson from the other thread as Bob felt that thread should be reserved specifically for Anna's issues.

mcjackson 

But, the retroactive application of new rules is just crazy. It's pretty scary to think that tomorrow they can come up with a new rule and wipe me out of my account (I'm current in a Pro account). In the 20 sec winners case, they could have done so many other things to handle it better. A warning, a future-facing rule, something. I also wonder how many people were really sim abusing just to nab the $5k. At what point does that become so costly to Topstep that they'd risk a major blow to their reputation? Just feels like a really poorly-handled idea.

100 % agree.

The main thing which should be obvious by now is that these companies have zero interest in actually funding you as a trader. That's what they advertise, though. Get funded. Trade a $150K account (which we all know is at best a $4.5K account as that's the drawdown limit).

If anyone still thinks these companies want to FUND you - they are either very naive/gullible or just plain misinformed. The only thing which should matter is RISK/DRAWDOWN. All these silly rules they're making up is just designed to get rid of you. And of course, as soon as you're live there are even more rules.

To be honest, I'm not sure if these companies could be called a scam, but it's certainly very, very close to it.

I always figured these companies would pay you out if you managed to jump through all their hoops, but as we see with TraderAnna in the other thread that might not always be the case. There was also this other guy I mentioned here who's not getting payed either. I can't see any other explanation than that he was trading in simulator and the firm obviously would go bust if they had to pay him out.

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/threads/funding-talent-prop-firm-scam.70762/

I have in the past said that maybe these companies could serve a purpose still and be a middle ground between demo trading on your own and a live account for serious practice purposes with the possible benefit of a payout, but seeing how these companies actually have zero interest in your well-being as a trader I may have to retract that statement.

I disagree with you.

There's a difference between saying - hey, what a stupid problem they created by rolling out a stupid policy in a stupid way...

.....and saying - hey this is a scam, anyone who can't see that is stupid.

I know traders who are making it work and have been paid out. Simple as that, for me.

For whatever reason, the people who dislike Topstep seem to really hate it. I don't get it, especially with how truly terrible so many trading-related companies are out there. It's not perfect, but this idea that they're actively scamming people....come on.

mcjackson 

.....and saying - hey this is a scam, anyone who can't see that is stupid. I know traders who are making it work and have been paid out. Simple as that, for me.

I'm not saying it's an outright scam. What I'm saying is they're promoting something they're NOT offering. In that sense, it's close to a scam, IMO.

I never said someone can't be paid from these firms. Hell, I even received some $$$ myself from OneUp/MES (they took most themselves though).

What I'm saying is that they have no interest in actually funding you and want your continued subscription fees instead of your success. The proof of this is in the pudding.

Howard Roark 

I always figured these companies would pay you out if you managed to jump through all their hoops, but as we see with TraderAnna in the other thread that might not always be the case. There was also this other guy I mentioned here who's not getting payed either. I can't see any other explanation than that he was trading in simulator and the firm obviously would go bust if they had to pay him out. https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/threads/funding-talent-prop-firm-scam.70762/

I would also be interested in hearing Topstep's response in the other thread but it doesn't look like they intend to reply which is disappointing.

I looked at the link supplied but then saw that it relates to the Funding Talent company which I have never looked at and have no knowledge of their offering or rules. I had assumed the link would be somebody complaining about Topstep. So at the moment there is one complaint on this forum from somebody who feels they have a genuine payment grievance against Topstep which does certainly look like it could have been handled a lot better by that company. By my reckoning, on this forum at least which is the only one I look at, that is one major payment complaint I recall in the nine years Topstep has been running.

Regarding the Funding Talent complaint, I would be very upset and complaining too if I had made $266k and was owed $212k but that is a whole different level of complaint and he has quite rightly got legal representation involved.

Without looking at the company website I don't know what their sim policy is, but would they really let a trader make that much if they were on sim? surely they would step in and transfer his account to real money, or mirror his trades to ensure they could afford the pay out.
Sure most trader's lose money, but a few do very well and they must have a contingency for covering successful trader profits if they are actually trading on sim. It would be lunacy if company policy was that they don't think any trader will ever make a profit so they just put them all on sim, and not worry about it or monitor them under the assumption they will never need to pay out. Then all they need is one single very profitable trader and that person destroys the business.