Obviously I don't know that much about the real-world use of Bitcoin. It turns out that, up until yesterday, you could pay for a Tesla with it.

Not any more, though:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/business/tesla-bitcoin-elon-musk.html

It turns out that Elon Musk decided that creating Bitcoins takes to much electricity, which adds too much to pollution.

Price of Bitcoin fell on the news, which brings up the volatility question in trading.

Bob.

I mean, even once you research it there's still some glaring issues. It's a "currency" that isn't often circulated at all. It's entire existence is basically for speculation. Since it can't rely on value from its primary function (being a currency) it has no intrinsic value. Historically that would mean it could drop to zero at any moment and this thing is basically a Ponzi scheme. However, BTC is going to be interesting to watch because it will answer the question "How would a Ponzi scheme behave if it were 'valued' at over $1 trillion, and it were global?"

BrianBacchus 

"How would a Ponzi scheme behave if it were 'valued' at over $1 trillion, and it were global?"

Our lives are a kind of ponzi scheme, many forms based on emptiness.

MNSTrading 

Our lives are a kind of ponzi scheme, many forms based on emptiness.

Yes,I'm afraid you're right

Playing devil's advocate here: Gold is not a "currency" - I can't take it to the store and buy something with it. Gold has limited real-world application - it only has a minor role in production of electronics. Gold's entire existence must be for speculation and therefore it has no intrinsic value.

On the intrinsic value argument, an example:
If I send $1 billion to someone on the other side of the world using Bitcoin, I can do it for pennies in transaction costs and the transaction posts in <20 minutes. If I go through a bank, I may easily pay 5+% for a wire and it may take days/weeks to post depending on what banks I use. This will require multiple phone calls and an in-person signature. Ultimately, the bank may reject the transaction based on a number of factors. Bitcoin's intrinsic value lies in its ability to transfer value cross-border over a network without friction and without a trusted third party.

BrianBacchus 

I mean, even once you research it there's still some glaring issues. It's a "currency" that isn't often circulated at all. It's entire existence is basically for speculation. Since it can't rely on value from its primary function (being a currency) it has no intrinsic value. Historically that would mean it could drop to zero at any moment and this thing is basically a Ponzi scheme. However, BTC is going to be interesting to watch because it will answer the question "How would a Ponzi scheme behave if it were 'valued' at over $1 trillion, and it were global?"

bobwest 

Obviously I don't know that much about the real-world use of Bitcoin. It turns out that, up until yesterday, you could pay for a Tesla with it. Not any more, though: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/business/tesla-bitcoin-elon-musk.html It turns out that Elon Musk decided that creating Bitcoins takes to much electricity, which adds too much to pollution. Price of Bitcoin fell on the news, which brings up the volatility question in trading. Bob.

For example polkadot has a better energy-efficient than bitcoin, maybe it's only a tactic by Musk to pump another crypto as he did with dogecoin.

"Gold has limited real-world application"

Yes, and if it had to fall back onto only its intrinsic value, that's the rock bottom value of a lump of Gold. BTC doesn't even have that much. But it DOES have the carbon footprint of The Netherlands, so we have that going for us

KevinB 

Playing devil's advocate here: Gold is not a "currency" - I can't take it to the store and buy something with it. Gold has limited real-world application - it only has a minor role in production of electronics. Gold's entire existence must be for speculation and therefore it has no intrinsic value. On the intrinsic value argument, an example: If I send $1 billion to someone on the other side of the world using Bitcoin, I can do it for pennies in transaction costs and the transaction posts in <20 minutes. If I go through a bank, I may easily pay 5+% for a wire and it may take days/weeks to post depending on what banks I use. This will require multiple phone calls and an in-person signature. Ultimately, the bank may reject the transaction based on a number of factors. Bitcoin's intrinsic value lies in its ability to transfer value cross-border over a network without friction and without a trusted third party.

BrianBacchus 

"Gold has limited real-world application" Yes, and if it had to fall back onto only its intrinsic value, that's the rock bottom value of a lump of Gold. BTC doesn't even have that much. But it DOES have the carbon footprint of The Netherlands, so we have that going for us

A purist would argue that Bitcoin is at least in concept a full-stack monetary system, not just a "currency." What do you think the carbon footprint of protecting the US dollar's global reserve currency status is? In 1995, building server farms so people who thought the internet was just a fad could have access to interactive mapping services (MapQuest) seemed like a ridiculous waste of resources, too.

I know a little. What's important to me is the underlying technology of BTC; broadly, distributed ledger technology (DLT) and blockchain.

I think if you want to better understand what BTC is and how it works, you might want to learn about what DLT and blockchain are first.

I found this sites definitions easy to comprehend:

DLT: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/distributed-ledgers.asp

Blockchain: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blockchain.asp

MNSTrading 

Our lives are a kind of ponzi scheme, many forms based on emptiness.

Out of shear curiosity, is that Mandelbrot set in your avatar? If yes, you seemed to have researched it, so I must ask another one, is there any trading application of it? That you may have discovered?


//For purpose of staying on topic.

Gold has lots of real world applications, ask that to someone who just got married in India. Gold is the mother of all currencies.

Basically no body in India (which is worlds 1.5/7.5 th population) will ask you how much bitcoin you own or care about it but its a matter of grave importance as to how much gold you own or can buy for marriage ceremony.

Its very similar to how diamond is important for marriages in US/EU


A very important real world application.

- I semi jest