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I finally blew up an account


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I finally blew up an account

  #171 (permalink)
Gauer
garopaba + santa catarina
 
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lightsun47 View Post
If you have a $1,000 account trading ES, how can you have a $5 stop loss? 1 tick = $12.50?

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Sorry If I wasn“t clear, but I was talking about a spot forex account. I thought it was implied since I used the term pips instead of ticks.

PS:

Don“t forget that there is the micro ES contract.

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  #172 (permalink)
 
Sandpaddict's Avatar
 Sandpaddict 
Vancouver, Canada
 
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GH0ST 0P View Post
Lol, that's funny. I find novelty type tricks like this only work for like a week or so. It's more work working out our often times irrational psychological fears and tendencies. Like no one wants to do this, including myself, but it's worth more R than all your spreadsheets combined!

I agree with GH0ST 0P.

The reason you keep repeating the same mistakes is because your not addressing the REAL issue.

Take your list here:

-------------
1. --Never Risk More Than 2% Of your Account Per Trade, Never Try To Make Up For Losses by Opening Big Positions

2. --Only Open Another Trade If You Already Have A "Free Trade" (STOP AT BREAKEVEN)

3. --If You Lose 3% Of Your Account, STOP TRADING FOR THE DAY (from initial balance of the day, after giving back trading profits)

4. --NEVER TRADE ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON

5. --I WILL NOT CHASE THE MARKET IF I HESITATED TAKING A TRADE WHERE I WAS SUPPOSED TO, NOR WILL I BECOME ANGRY BECAUSE OF IT - THE BUS LEFT AND THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER TRADE

6. --I WILL NOT FORCE TRADES BECAUSE OF FOMO OR JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT BECAUSE I AM BORED

7. -I Will Only Take The Trades From The VSA Playbook (Springs, Upthrusts, No Demands and No Supplies at Areas Of Interest) - NO HAMSTERING FOR TAKING TRADES THAT DON“T FIT THE CRITERIA

8. --NEVER REVENGE TRADE! NEVER! IT IS IRRATIONAL BECOMING ANGRY AT THE MARKETS

9. --THE ONLY CASE where I Will Allow Myself A Big Position is: At Every US$1000 of Profits (What I mean by that is this: My initial balance of a high leverage forex account was US$1000. I would trade initially with 1/10 of a lot (0.1) - that was the regular trade size. So using a stop of 5 pips that was US$5. At every US$100 of profit, I would allow 1 trade of 1 lot (which is US$10 per pip, so the same trade would have a U$50 stop loss). Was a riskier shot, but at least I would have the other half (US$50) that would allow for 10 more trades using profit money. As your account grow bigger you just adjust it for it“s size keeping the same ratio.

10. ---Even When You Think Your Analysis Is "Perfect" And You Have an A+++++ Setup, The Market Will Do Whatever It Wants, and Sometimes Will Completely Ignore The Principles of your Method. So again, NO NEED to get angry at the markets because "it didn“t do what it was supposed to do". Focus is ALWAYS on trade process and minimizing risk, NOT TRADE OUTCOME.

11. ---REMEMBER THE 3 TIMES YOU BLEW UP YOUR ACCOUNT DISRESPECTING THOSE RULES!! REMEMBER THE GUY FROM FUTURES.IO FORUM
-------------------

Ok super. 11 trading RULES. That should do it. Right?

OK. #1. Never trade more than %2 on any one trade.

Why have you broken that rule in the past? Undercapitalized? Not taking/moving stops? (Because you just can't take another loss in a row)

How can you recognize when you are doing it in real time? How can you decide ahead of time how to deal?

#2. Only add once position has moved enough in your favor to move stop to break even.

Ok. Again why have you broken the rule in the past? Impatience? Emotional trading. Revenge trading?

How can you recognize REAL TIME you are doing this? How SHOULD you repond to the feelings that make you want to break the rule in the first place?

... #10. Focus on trading correctly NOT results. Ok. What sends you into P&L HYPER FOCUS? Find a way to identify situations where you are too focused on only P&L or overly winning oriented.

Solution: refocus effort on reverting back to focusing on PROCESSES and not purely results.

Do this all the way to eleven WITH A WRITEN PLAN WITH WHAT TO DO if you find yourself ready to break your rules as you have a PLAN OF ACTION instead of plain old REACTION.

If you DON'T do this you are almost guaranteed to keep doing the same thing and getting the same results.

You'll remember rule #11 painfully AFTER you do it again and again!

Why do we expect to do the same thing and get different results? Cause were human and we all do it.

Just one insignificant mans opinion.

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  #173 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
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MaverickV71 View Post
Kudos for being willing to expose your ego to the whiles of anonymous strangers. Luckily here they're a supportive group.

You've handed over $60k for some lessons.

Here a few of them:

1) You can make money doing this.

2) You have the power to wreck yourself and your account.

3) You're an emotional/egotistical trader.

Add others as you see fit.

Trading is a three-legged chair: Method, Mind and Money (Management). You need to focus on the latter 2 for a while. Van Tharp and Mark Douglas changed my life and trading; they will yours too.

Your wife should not be able to know whether or not you've had a good day. Besides, who needs that pressure?

I've done what you've described thrice. I'm a slow learner. Hopefully you're better than me?

Maverick

Hey, what a great and simple comment:

"Trading is a three-legged chair: Method, Mind and Money (Management)." I really like that!

Yep, Frau Redbarntrades and I have listened to Mark Douglas over and over again. We are sorry he left this life so soon.

Say hello to my favorite Austrian band "Ursprung Buam" if you run into them! (haha)

I second all that you wrote actually!

Tschüss!

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  #174 (permalink)
MaverickV71
Vienna, Austria
 
Posts: 3 since May 2021
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Ourselves are the biggest problem, the market will just reveal that.

I put my first trade on in 1988 and I'm still learning the craft. I've been fortunate enough to have worked on trading floors for major global banks in London. The UK market is very different to the US. Nevertheless, it's a common joke that a trader sitting in an office of a bank will make millions, then go out on his own and blow up. Why does that happen? Long story short, his freedom is his undoing. There is no manager imposing limits on losses, or sending him home after a losing streak. The plaster over his lack of self-control is pulled off.

These same banks are now spending millions every year on developing automated systems, but the human trader still plays a role for them albeit diminishing.

The mindset I've developed is "what would an expensively developed software system in a bank do now?"

I also have a few crutches that serve me well. I've set up a series of calendar and smartphone reminders that pop up during the day reminding me of events about to happen. For example NFP is coming out, so for about an hour beforehand the markets move sideways. When the news hits then prices gyrate and usually return to their starting point 15 minutes later. That kind of reminder. FYI I solely trade indices.

I do wonder about in these unprecedented times how many people are trading because they have to? Is their need to succeed so great that it is their undoing? There is a balancing act between having an account great enough to withstand a drawdown and having money to make the rent. On top of that people might trade an instrument unsuited to their personality and/or are trading the wrong timeframe.

There are times of the day when the markets are not worth trading because liquidity dries up, so getting exercise then to burn off cortisol works for me. Most people call that lunchtime, I call it "re-charge time".

The book you suggest is new to me and I shall get it, so thank you for that.

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  #175 (permalink)
 
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 Sandpaddict 
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MaverickV71 View Post
Trading is a three-legged chair: Method, Mind and Money (Management).

I really like this analogy as you NEED all three.

Thank you

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  #176 (permalink)
 
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 Adolpho911 
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I have not read all the posts, but I saw one in the firsts few pages, that I was thinking at once I read it.
You dont make your money grow 1000% without being extremly lucky or donr some very risky trades. I think the other guy said this was bound to come.

I dont understand that people here think it is great doing 1000% in 5 months. It isnt, its crazy.

Sounds like a martingale system in a massive bullmarket, (maybe even without starting with original bet adter win) or something strange stuff getting insane lucky on oom options on GME or whatever.

I am not so sure about the story math either, if the numbers are correct, your down ("quick head math") 86%!! (Not sure if 1000% is the commone way to describe a 100% win to 14k, 100 more to 28k, 100 more 56, and then some change, but I am not a mathematican, just that usually 1000% sometimes doubling up 10 times, which you didnt, but as said, no mathematican, but I know, the 86& down is correct, if not you would own, 70k 9 times over.. Maybe a comfort?

I will also say something regarding "free trades" There are never free trades. when your up, they are your money, aint they? Surely you dont feel the money in red is still your, because they arent cllosed out yrt. Just a point regarding "playing with fee money/thee house money/etc"
As said, not like you will get your money back when in red. The money in blue is yours, which autumaticly involves them in your 2%. If you want to ignore it fine, but stop thinking the money isnt yours.

Adolpho911
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  #177 (permalink)
 
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 Sandpaddict 
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Adolpho911 View Post
I have not read all the posts, but I saw one in the firsts few pages, that I was thinking at once I read it.
You dont make your money grow 1000% without being extremly lucky or donr some very risky trades. I think the other guy said this was bound to come.

I dont understand that people here think it is great doing 1000% in 5 months. It isnt, its crazy.

Sounds like a martingale system in a massive bullmarket, (maybe even without starting with original bet adter win) or something strange stuff getting insane lucky on oom options on GME or whatever.

I am not so sure about the story math either, if the numbers are correct, your down ("quick head math") 86%!! (Not sure if 1000% is the commone way to describe a 100% win to 14k, 100 more to 28k, 100 more 56, and then some change, but I am not a mathematican, just that usually 1000% sometimes doubling up 10 times, which you didnt, but as said, no mathematican, but I know, the 86& down is correct, if not you would own, 70k 9 times over.. Maybe a comfort?

I will also say something regarding "free trades" There are never free trades. when your up, they are your money, aint they? Surely you dont feel the money in red is still your, because they arent cllosed out yrt. Just a point regarding "playing with fee money/thee house money/etc"
As said, not like you will get your money back when in red. The money in blue is yours, which autumaticly involves them in your 2%. If you want to ignore it fine, but stop thinking the money isnt yours.

I didn't do the math either but I'm assuming it's betting the whole thing everytime to get those kind of numbers?

I'm on the fence about the "it's your money thing".

In my view, it's ONLY your money after you close the trade.

I think I understand the "it's your money argument" but it's no more yours then when the "loss is yours" before you close the trade in a loss.

Maybe its semantics.

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  #178 (permalink)
Gauer
garopaba + santa catarina
 
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Adolpho911 View Post
I have not read all the posts, but I saw one in the firsts few pages, that I was thinking at once I read it.
You dont make your money grow 1000% without being extremly lucky or donr some very risky trades. I think the other guy said this was bound to come.

I dont understand that people here think it is great doing 1000% in 5 months. It isnt, its crazy.

Sounds like a martingale system in a massive bullmarket, (maybe even without starting with original bet adter win) or something strange stuff getting insane lucky on oom options on GME or whatever.

I am not so sure about the story math either, if the numbers are correct, your down ("quick head math") 86%!! (Not sure if 1000% is the commone way to describe a 100% win to 14k, 100 more to 28k, 100 more 56, and then some change, but I am not a mathematican, just that usually 1000% sometimes doubling up 10 times, which you didnt, but as said, no mathematican, but I know, the 86& down is correct, if not you would own, 70k 9 times over.. Maybe a comfort?

I will also say something regarding "free trades" There are never free trades. when your up, they are your money, aint they? Surely you dont feel the money in red is still your, because they arent cllosed out yrt. Just a point regarding "playing with fee money/thee house money/etc"
As said, not like you will get your money back when in red. The money in blue is yours, which autumaticly involves them in your 2%. If you want to ignore it fine, but stop thinking the money isnt yours.


Free trade, to me, is a a trade in which the stop is at breakeven. If the money is not being taken from my initial balance of the day, then it is free (to me), Current day profit money, this doesn“t trigger an emotional response in me, whereas if initial balance is down does.

Also, it is also a free trade as in free of concern, that initial moment of uncertainty and anguish is gone, so I just don“t care about it anymore. What you absolutely CAN`T do is allow a winner turn into a loser, that is just stupid. If you have a big move from your entry and you are not trading with multiple targets, at least move the stop to just below 50% of the move.

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  #179 (permalink)
 
Adolpho911's Avatar
 Adolpho911 
Amsterdam + Netherland
 
Experience: Advanced
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With this logic, you have not lost any thing until you close your trade either. (I bet your broker not agree, or should I change broker? 😂
).
I am not stupid, I understand what you say. However this is a very flawed thinking. I explained. And atleast if you have a max risk you shall take in your trade.
You have 5%max risk (not necessarily your stop) lets do this easy and say stop is 2% at 200. When you are 500 up over BE, your risk is now 500. Most will probably exit on a 2x RR system (or scaled some out. You should now probably scale out more (less risk, can still keep some.) or exit and get a new entry if you believe that.
The money in your account is yours. They certainly ain't the guy that is down the "trade against you".

Ofcourse you are free to do what you want. But you never have free money. I know a very successful guy trading cfd (Tom Hougaard, he has a good website.) He were up almost 100 000 £ when he get to sleep and was stopped out at 30 k. You think he thought, well free money? (Actually he kinda does, but he has no 2RR idea. His way is to start "slow" (for him from 25$ to 100$ pr point of dow. When he see opportunity he add 100 more and more (not do often more than 600£/$ p points as then the trade needs to be approved (Cfd firm hedges his trades, jfyi).

However he have a lot of positions where he were up ALOT, and if he has not moved stop (usually i he is, sometimes forget, sometimes early and sometimes late (imo, I aint very successful) but do you he is happy lost maybe his biggest single win (several pos, most in dow).

I just saying this because the free money thought is plain stupid. (in a casino have you not win or lost until you leave.

But trade as you want. But it is not free money and break every set RR system to not be kept. (bad language, not English and morning)

Edited as I heard story and saw account numbers in DKK so the numbers earned and lost got 10x as big. it is fixed now

Adolpho911
"Faith does not always let you fix the tuition fee; she delivers the educational wallop and sets her own bill" Jesse Livermore
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  #180 (permalink)
 
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 Adolpho911 
Amsterdam + Netherland
 
Experience: Advanced
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I just want to add, as to contrary belief and explanation. There IS always exactly as many buyers as sellers, how could there be a sale/buy if no one is on the opposite side.

This seems to be the thread to "break the news" regarding this. (I will explain this as well. The seller and buyers are more aggressive!, but there is always the same amount bought and sold. Even tv pundits may say this (more sellers... Probably stuff about free money as well.. (I won't tell the truth on other folktales/fairytales/adventures/legends, but it sure is tempting. I see that may not be polite tho)

Edit to improve language and hopefully understanding.

Adolpho911
"Faith does not always let you fix the tuition fee; she delivers the educational wallop and sets her own bill" Jesse Livermore
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