Many of the best single posts on this site are by @tigertrader. Add this one to the list.

tigertrader 

I find it ironic, but not surprising that this thread is currently the most active thread on the forum. In the almost 10 years that I've been a member, (and @Big Mike will attest to this fact) we've gone through many, many, iterations of discussions on this very topic. It's almost a cyclical phenomenon. Another generation of aspiring traders embarking on what they think is going to be a walk-in-the-park, until they discover that achieving success in trading isn't quite as easy as they had envisioned. Most of them are under-capitalized, and the majority of them don't know the difference between a stock and a bond. A lot of them believe the market owes them a living, and will blame the market for their lack of success, when in fact they lack the self-determination to succeed. There is nothing novel about this phenomenon. And, there is certainly nothing surprising about the response it is generating. Other aspiring traders are eager to offer their advice. What's ironic is most of these traders are experiencing the same problems, and are incompetent at trading themselves. Incompetent traders are at a double disadvantage, since they are not only incompetent, but they are unawre of it. Almost 1/2 of them couldn't even pony up the $ to become elite members, most are on SIM and have no skin in the game, and I truly wonder how many of the others are consistently profitable to the point, where they can actually support themselves and a family, from their trading. Yet they are crawling all over themselves to tell-like-it-is; to explain how they have reinvented the wheel, and found the answer to the eternal question. Their advice is a panoply of retail aphorisms and urban trading myths that have been propagated over the years, and regurgitated to the newbie masses. And, it's the same worthless garbage every time. You have to find your edge! Trade your plan! Find what suits you and makes you comfortable. Find a nice indicator you can settle down with and crank out 4 tics at a time. I haven't heard one expert that was offering advice say, "learn how the markets work" before you attempt to trade it. What's ironic, Is that you'll never see these "experts" participating in threads about the markets and trading, because they really have little knowledge of how markets function, and little idea of what it really takes to make consistent and scalable profits. But they are very inclined to tell a newbie how to trade, and dispense advice with no uncertainty, blissfully ignorant of their own ineptitude. This only serves to perpetuate the cycle of retail mis-information, and re-cycle uninformed, unprepared traders that provide the winners their fresh and unknowing counterparts. Most people are unlikely to think highly of anyone whose views they oppose. So when the newbie thinks about which person to listen to, whose advice to respect, and where to get his information, it’s likely that he will choose the one that parallels his views, even though it may not be in his best interest. There have been countless times that @Big Mike and I have tried to steer people in the right direction, but people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. And what's sad, not ironic, is that these words will probably fall on deaf ears, or not really be comprehended nor believed, and most assuredly, they will be ignored by most.

Well put, and they still have to learn and fail on their own. Like I posted earlier...Advice is cheap. His question is exactly why this forum is so nice and choosing which advice you take will determine were you go. Its always the same question over and over...Where do I start, what do I trade, why doesn't this work, and etc. This is the cycle most have to go through. The poster doesn't know you any better than he knows me or anyone else on this forum. I hope he finds it. Because once you find it, its really all not that hard. Not the way some want to make you think. At least no harder than some other degrees out there. IMHO.

Many years, still learning. My take, stay away from MES. Too fast with too many large swings. Try something smaller with limited swing lengths like M6E. Look at a Renko chart set to 1,1,1 for average swing lengths. I prefer Unirenko charts to Renko. For swing length I use ProActionSwingPro. Not sure if it's a Ninja indicator or from Big Mike's. Monday's are too slow normally but the rest of the week is tradable. Look at 6E for comparisons and entries. Using this info, practice. Stop live trading for a while.

tigertrader 

I find it ironic, but not surprising that this thread is currently the most active thread on the forum. In the almost 10 years that I've been a member, (and @Big Mike will attest to this fact) we've gone through many, many, iterations of discussions on this very topic. It's almost a cyclical phenomenon. Another generation of aspiring traders embarking on what they think is going to be a walk-in-the-park, until they discover that achieving success in trading isn't quite as easy as they had envisioned. Most of them are under-capitalized, and the majority of them don't know the difference between a stock and a bond. A lot of them believe the market owes them a living, and will blame the market for their lack of success, when in fact they lack the self-determination to succeed. There is nothing novel about this phenomenon. And, there is certainly nothing surprising about the response it is generating. Other aspiring traders are eager to offer their advice. What's ironic is most of these traders are experiencing the same problems, and are incompetent at trading themselves. Incompetent traders are at a double disadvantage, since they are not only incompetent, but they are unawre of it. Almost 1/2 of them couldn't even pony up the $ to become elite members, most are on SIM and have no skin in the game, and I truly wonder how many of the others are consistently profitable to the point, where they can actually support themselves and a family, from their trading. Yet they are crawling all over themselves to tell-like-it-is; to explain how they have reinvented the wheel, and found the answer to the eternal question. Their advice is a panoply of retail aphorisms and urban trading myths that have been propagated over the years, and regurgitated to the newbie masses. And, it's the same worthless garbage every time. You have to find your edge! Trade your plan! Find what suits you and makes you comfortable. Find a nice indicator you can settle down with and crank out 4 tics at a time. I haven't heard one expert that was offering advice say, "learn how the markets work" before you attempt to trade it. What's ironic, Is that you'll never see these "experts" participating in threads about the markets and trading, because they really have little knowledge of how markets function, and little idea of what it really takes to make consistent and scalable profits. But they are very inclined to tell a newbie how to trade, and dispense advice with no uncertainty, blissfully ignorant of their own ineptitude. This only serves to perpetuate the cycle of retail mis-information, and re-cycle uninformed, unprepared traders that provide the winners their fresh and unknowing counterparts. Most people are unlikely to think highly of anyone whose views they oppose. So when the newbie thinks about which person to listen to, whose advice to respect, and where to get his information, it’s likely that he will choose the one that parallels his views, even though it may not be in his best interest. There have been countless times that @Big Mike and I have tried to steer people in the right direction, but people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. And what's sad, not ironic, is that these words will probably fall on deaf ears, or not really be comprehended nor believed, and most assuredly, they will be ignored by most.

Well said --- After almost 30 years of trading and making so many mistakes you would think one would have all the answers but the truth is we don't have all the answers . I guess that is why trading is so interesting , there is always a new chapter . It's a journey that just keeps going on and on . I am 77 and still turn on my computer every morning to trade , and it doesn't have much to do about the money anymore it's just part of my life .

So what would you suggest?

tigertrader 

I find it ironic, but not surprising that this thread is currently the most active thread on the forum. In the almost 10 years that I've been a member, (and @Big Mike will attest to this fact) we've gone through many, many, iterations of discussions on this very topic. It's almost a cyclical phenomenon. Another generation of aspiring traders embarking on what they think is going to be a walk-in-the-park, until they discover that achieving success in trading isn't quite as easy as they had envisioned. Most of them are under-capitalized, and the majority of them don't know the difference between a stock and a bond. A lot of them believe the market owes them a living, and will blame the market for their lack of success, when in fact they lack the self-determination to succeed. There is nothing novel about this phenomenon. And, there is certainly nothing surprising about the response it is generating. Other aspiring traders are eager to offer their advice. What's ironic is most of these traders are experiencing the same problems, and are incompetent at trading themselves. Incompetent traders are at a double disadvantage, since they are not only incompetent, but they are unawre of it. Almost 1/2 of them couldn't even pony up the $ to become elite members, most are on SIM and have no skin in the game, and I truly wonder how many of the others are consistently profitable to the point, where they can actually support themselves and a family, from their trading. Yet they are crawling all over themselves to tell-like-it-is; to explain how they have reinvented the wheel, and found the answer to the eternal question. Their advice is a panoply of retail aphorisms and urban trading myths that have been propagated over the years, and regurgitated to the newbie masses. And, it's the same worthless garbage every time. You have to find your edge! Trade your plan! Find what suits you and makes you comfortable. Find a nice indicator you can settle down with and crank out 4 tics at a time. I haven't heard one expert that was offering advice say, "learn how the markets work" before you attempt to trade it. What's ironic, Is that you'll never see these "experts" participating in threads about the markets and trading, because they really have little knowledge of how markets function, and little idea of what it really takes to make consistent and scalable profits. But they are very inclined to tell a newbie how to trade, and dispense advice with no uncertainty, blissfully ignorant of their own ineptitude. This only serves to perpetuate the cycle of retail mis-information, and re-cycle uninformed, unprepared traders that provide the winners their fresh and unknowing counterparts. Most people are unlikely to think highly of anyone whose views they oppose. So when the newbie thinks about which person to listen to, whose advice to respect, and where to get his information, it’s likely that he will choose the one that parallels his views, even though it may not be in his best interest. There have been countless times that @Big Mike and I have tried to steer people in the right direction, but people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. And what's sad, not ironic, is that these words will probably fall on deaf ears, or not really be comprehended nor believed, and most assuredly, they will be ignored by most.

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

WoodyFox 

Because once you find it, its really all not that hard. Not the way some want to make you think. At least no harder than some other degrees out there. IMHO.

Agreed, up to a point!

As a leveraged trader, one makes short-term decisions/trades, manages the risk/ keeps draw-downs small & occasionally turns winning positions into big ones. Indeed, a simple strategy and path to follow.Scaling that simple strategy is another story, for many obvious reasons. Not the least of which is our knowledge of the markets is provisional and incomplete, and constantly requires revision. So, even if you are able to figure out the game that is being played, and what's working now; it doesn't mean that its grist for the mill tomorrow.

tonybravo 

I have no edge. I don't know what my edge could be. I'm trading blind. Today I lost $50 by over trading and just being wrong I started with just $1000 near the end of April. I'm down by $280. I can't seem to get this right. I go long, I'm down 10 ticks. I go short, then the contract moves 10 ticks upwards. Once in a while I'll get lucky and catch a 20 tick move but then it's back to getting it wrong constantly. I'm trading the mes contracts. 1 at a time. Should I just withdrawal and go home or do I keep trying to get better? It just seems that no matter what direction I choose I have it wrong. Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

Don't Quit reach out to me and I would love to help!

tigertrader 

I find it ironic, but not surprising that this thread is currently the most active thread on the forum. In the almost 10 years that I've been a member, (and @Big Mike will attest to this fact) we've gone through many, many, iterations of discussions on this very topic. It's almost a cyclical phenomenon. Another generation of aspiring traders embarking on what they think is going to be a walk-in-the-park, until they discover that achieving success in trading isn't quite as easy as they had envisioned. Most of them are under-capitalized, and the majority of them don't know the difference between a stock and a bond. A lot of them believe the market owes them a living, and will blame the market for their lack of success, when in fact they lack the self-determination to succeed. There is nothing novel about this phenomenon. And, there is certainly nothing surprising about the response it is generating. Other aspiring traders are eager to offer their advice. What's ironic is most of these traders are experiencing the same problems, and are incompetent at trading themselves. Incompetent traders are at a double disadvantage, since they are not only incompetent, but they are unawre of it. Almost 1/2 of them couldn't even pony up the $ to become elite members, most are on SIM and have no skin in the game, and I truly wonder how many of the others are consistently profitable to the point, where they can actually support themselves and a family, from their trading. Yet they are crawling all over themselves to tell-like-it-is; to explain how they have reinvented the wheel, and found the answer to the eternal question. Their advice is a panoply of retail aphorisms and urban trading myths that have been propagated over the years, and regurgitated to the newbie masses. And, it's the same worthless garbage every time. You have to find your edge! Trade your plan! Find what suits you and makes you comfortable. Find a nice indicator you can settle down with and crank out 4 tics at a time. I haven't heard one expert that was offering advice say, "learn how the markets work" before you attempt to trade it. What's ironic, Is that you'll never see these "experts" participating in threads about the markets and trading, because they really have little knowledge of how markets function, and little idea of what it really takes to make consistent and scalable profits. But they are very inclined to tell a newbie how to trade, and dispense advice with no uncertainty, blissfully ignorant of their own ineptitude. This only serves to perpetuate the cycle of retail mis-information, and re-cycle uninformed, unprepared traders that provide the winners their fresh and unknowing counterparts. Most people are unlikely to think highly of anyone whose views they oppose. So when the newbie thinks about which person to listen to, whose advice to respect, and where to get his information, it’s likely that he will choose the one that parallels his views, even though it may not be in his best interest. There have been countless times that @Big Mike and I have tried to steer people in the right direction, but people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. And what's sad, not ironic, is that these words will probably fall on deaf ears, or not really be comprehended nor believed, and most assuredly, they will be ignored by most.

That was real.
This single statement you made (thank you) is the root of most human beings' problems in LIFE today.......it is what limits us all.

"People hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest"

In referencing it to Trading the markets:

It is hard to dig deep and look at once self with true honest reflection, finding the idiosyncrasies within ourselves that block us.
Most "want to be traders" will not endeavor to do so because the emotional pain is greater than the reward in their mind.

I am not profitable in my trading and I am not embarrassed to say that, because I know the effort in which I am putting forth will inevitably give me a result, will that result be that I become a consistent trader, (I leave profitable out because that is not the goal) "Consistent" is, that's the plan, but who can actually sit and say they know the actual result for every endeavor they try. Just because you can drive a car at 186 mph around a track does not mean you will win a NASCAR Race.......We can only try to achieve a result and the "amount" of effort is the key.....What are you willing to do!! to get there.

Dam you got me fired up today

tigertrader 

I find it ironic, but not surprising that this thread is currently the most active thread on the forum. In the almost 10 years that I've been a member, (and @Big Mike will attest to this fact) we've gone through many, many, iterations of discussions on this very topic. It's almost a cyclical phenomenon. Another generation of aspiring traders embarking on what they think is going to be a walk-in-the-park, until they discover that achieving success in trading isn't quite as easy as they had envisioned. Most of them are under-capitalized, and the majority of them don't know the difference between a stock and a bond. A lot of them believe the market owes them a living, and will blame the market for their lack of success, when in fact they lack the self-determination to succeed. There is nothing novel about this phenomenon. And, there is certainly nothing surprising about the response it is generating. Other aspiring traders are eager to offer their advice. What's ironic is most of these traders are experiencing the same problems, and are incompetent at trading themselves. Incompetent traders are at a double disadvantage, since they are not only incompetent, but they are unawre of it. Almost 1/2 of them couldn't even pony up the $ to become elite members, most are on SIM and have no skin in the game, and I truly wonder how many of the others are consistently profitable to the point, where they can actually support themselves and a family, from their trading. Yet they are crawling all over themselves to tell-like-it-is; to explain how they have reinvented the wheel, and found the answer to the eternal question. Their advice is a panoply of retail aphorisms and urban trading myths that have been propagated over the years, and regurgitated to the newbie masses. And, it's the same worthless garbage every time. You have to find your edge! Trade your plan! Find what suits you and makes you comfortable. Find a nice indicator you can settle down with and crank out 4 tics at a time. I haven't heard one expert that was offering advice say, "learn how the markets work" before you attempt to trade it. What's ironic, Is that you'll never see these "experts" participating in threads about the markets and trading, because they really have little knowledge of how markets function, and little idea of what it really takes to make consistent and scalable profits. But they are very inclined to tell a newbie how to trade, and dispense advice with no uncertainty, blissfully ignorant of their own ineptitude. This only serves to perpetuate the cycle of retail mis-information, and re-cycle uninformed, unprepared traders that provide the winners their fresh and unknowing counterparts. Most people are unlikely to think highly of anyone whose views they oppose. So when the newbie thinks about which person to listen to, whose advice to respect, and where to get his information, it’s likely that he will choose the one that parallels his views, even though it may not be in his best interest. There have been countless times that @Big Mike and I have tried to steer people in the right direction, but people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. And what's sad, not ironic, is that these words will probably fall on deaf ears, or not really be comprehended nor believed, and most assuredly, they will be ignored by most.

my goodness @tigertrader, that post packed an insane amount of truthiness.... well done

YogaTrading 

I know the effort in which I am putting forth will inevitably give me a result, will that result be that I become a consistent trader, (I leave profitable out because that is not the goal) "Consistent" is, that's the plan

The profit part, is kind of the whole idea. Consistency is important, especially if you are not well capitalized. But , you don't want to get in the habit of trading for average, or maximizing the chance of gain, by playing it safe. You want to maximize the gain. It's nice to say I make money on 80% of my trades, but how much money? It usually means you are not taking enough risk, not letting your winners run, and not trading enough.