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SharkIndicators - Jeremy Tang & Keith Wolf - Ask Me Anything (AMA)


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SharkIndicators - Jeremy Tang & Keith Wolf - Ask Me Anything (AMA)

  #41 (permalink)
 tradertool 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Master
Platform: Ninja Trader, Meta Trader, Tradestation, Multicharts, Fibonacci Trader
Broker: AMP Futures
Trading: Eminis + Stocks
Posts: 16 since Oct 2009
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 13


liquidcci View Post
I personally don't mind the maintenance fee. It is nominal if making money trading. It also ensures these guys are able to thrive and continue to develop the product. It is my interest as a user; they make a profit. It takes a bit to learn but once I do I have found it to be a great investment. What might take a month or two to hire a programmer with all the back and forth now takes me a few days or even hours. Also much cheaper than hiring someone every time you need something coded.

I have been trading since 1998. For most of my career, I was trying to become a good trader, a consistently profitable trader. I realized one thing, there is no such thing as a consistently profitable trader. No one in the world accomplished it. It is just like looking for a holy grail. I quit trying to be a consistently profitable trader and became a business person. Trading is my business. As soon as I changed my whole concept of trading, everything became much comfortable and became so-called "profitable" on annual basis.

I stop trading based on the intraday chart. I take daily and look for the price level that I want to buy. I do this with all of SP500 stocks with weekly options as they are most liquid. I hardly trade weekly options; it is just a filter to find liquid stocks. I also trade FX and all the futures based on a daily chart. Just like businesses prepare for seasons like Christmas and other popular days that happen every year, I look for seasonal along with a price that I am confident I can sell at a higher price.

Trading is a business. Just as a business, you can only control your cost including all the fees and charges along with the cost of acquisition. You can't control your profit. You just have to do your research to come up with the best price others may willing to pay you. You have to work for 5-8 hours a day. It is a full-time job. If someone tells you otherwise, he/she is probably not telling you the truth.

I spent a good $250,000 on education, indicators, trading rooms, newsletters, alert services, mentoring, and so on. I spent 100 hours per week researching, backtesting, trading, and all the little things that you can ever think of. almost 20 years of looking for a holy grail, no one makes money on a daily basis, not weekly, not monthly, not even quarterly. Only less than 10% of all fund managers make more than 10% return a year, historically. That probably equates to less than 0.1% for all traders and wannabes.

Control the cost. Control yourself as you are the biggest risk. Don't think about profit. Think about not losing money.

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  #42 (permalink)
 
liquidcci's Avatar
 liquidcci 
Austin, TX
 
Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader, r-trader
Trading: NQ, CL
Posts: 866 since Jun 2011
Thanks Given: 610
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tradertool View Post
I have been trading since 1998. For most of my career, I was trying to become a good trader, a consistently profitable trader. I realized one thing, there is no such thing as a consistently profitable trader. No one in the world accomplished it. It is just like looking for a holy grail. I quit trying to be a consistently profitable trader and became a business person. Trading is my business. As soon as I changed my whole concept of trading, everything became much comfortable and became so-called "profitable" on annual basis.

I stop trading based on the intraday chart. I take daily and look for the price level that I want to buy. I do this with all of SP500 stocks with weekly options as they are most liquid. I hardly trade weekly options; it is just a filter to find liquid stocks. I also trade FX and all the futures based on a daily chart. Just like businesses prepare for seasons like Christmas and other popular days that happen every year, I look for seasonal along with a price that I am confident I can sell at a higher price.

Trading is a business. Just as a business, you can only control your cost including all the fees and charges along with the cost of acquisition. You can't control your profit. You just have to do your research to come up with the best price others may willing to pay you. You have to work for 5-8 hours a day. It is a full-time job. If someone tells you otherwise, he/she is probably not telling you the truth.

I spent a good $250,000 on education, indicators, trading rooms, newsletters, alert services, mentoring, and so on. I spent 100 hours per week researching, backtesting, trading, and all the little things that you can ever think of. almost 20 years of looking for a holy grail, no one makes money on a daily basis, not weekly, not monthly, not even quarterly. Only less than 10% of all fund managers make more than 10% return a year, historically. That probably equates to less than 0.1% for all traders and wannabes.

Control the cost. Control yourself as you are the biggest risk. Don't think about profit. Think about not losing money.

Yes, of course control your cost. $250k yikes. But there are some tools worth investing in. Sharkindicator Blackbird and Bloodhound are just tools. But value I get way offsets cost. I would disagree you can't be consistently profitable trading. It's not easy but it can be quite profitable. If you only think about losing money you won't make money. Money Management is extremely important and losses need to be managed but you also have to manage profits.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
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  #43 (permalink)
 
jeliner's Avatar
 jeliner 
Spokane Washington
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, TradeStation
Broker: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, CL, YM, GC, NQ, Forex Majors
Posts: 40 since Nov 2016
Thanks Given: 5
Thanks Received: 61



jeliner View Post
Hello.

I have already purchased both bloodhound and blackbird. I am considering purchasing JigSaw. If I execute an order through the JigSaw DOM, would blackbird running on a chart be able to notice that order and run my management algorhythm once in the trade? I am trying to determine if I would need to execute the trade in a NinjaChart or if can also use the JigSaw Dom. Its my understanding that JigSaw charges $50/monthly to process orders through their DOM.

I am primarily interested in Jigsaw for their education, but I will be learning their tools as I go, If can find some use of their tools I wanted to understand how both of these might work

sorry.. just reposting the question. I didnt see anything on it.

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  #44 (permalink)
 
SharkIndicators's Avatar
 SharkIndicators  SharkIndicators is an official Site Sponsor
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jeliner View Post
If I execute an order through the JigSaw DOM, would blackbird running on a chart be able to notice that order and run my management algorhythm once in the trade? I am trying to determine if I would need to execute the trade in a NinjaChart or if can also use the JigSaw Dom

NT does not allow strategies to manage orders executed externally of the strategy. Thus, the answer is no. You would need to use BlackBird's chart trader or its Dynamic Planner to enter a trade. If you have more questions on this, please email our support, as this is not the appropriate place to support a vendor's product.



jeliner View Post
I am primarily interested in Jigsaw for their education, but I will be learning their tools as I go, If can find some use of their tools I wanted to understand how both of these might work

Side note: Jigsaw has not approached us yet, so we do not know if their indicators work for system building (i.e. work with BloodHound).

Best of luck with Jigsaw.

BloodHound for signals, and BlackBird for trade management.
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  #45 (permalink)
 
SharkIndicators's Avatar
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tradertool View Post
YES and NO. It won't work with any templates that were built with a newer version of Bloodhound and Blackbird.

Correct. This is how all software works. Older versions of any software don't have the features/settings that the newer version of the software has, thus opening a newer file version within an older software version is going to break something.



tradertool View Post
In addition, basically, you are stuck with the old version.

Not true. You have two options:
#1 Purchase a Maintenance Extension when you feel it's necessary. e.g. If you go two years without updates, when you do purchase a Maintenance Extension you get three years for the price of 1. You get the previous two years of new features/capabilities, which is two years of programming cost for FREE, and the next year of updates which the cost pays for.
#2 Purchase the lifetime of Maintenance Extensions versions and be done with it.


tradertool View Post
Hence, if any NinjaTrader updates or upgrades start to affect your old version of Bloodhound and Blackbird, the only way to get it going again is to pay for the maintenance.

NT should not be breaking things. That's on them. Why is it the vendor's responsibility to clean up NT's mistakes? From the vendor's stand point NT should be cleaning up the broken mess they caused. Yes, it stinks that customers get caught in the middle. Customers should petitioning NT to fix the issues they caused, not the vendors.


tradertool View Post
That is where they make their pure profit. No affiliate fees, sales commissions, and discounts; absolutely pure profits.

TraderTool, I see you live in the L.A. area. How much does skilled labor cost in southern CA? The Maintenance Extension cost goes to pay the ongoing programmer wages. It goes to pay the ongoing documentation person's wages. It goes to pay the ongoing free workshop training person's wages.
Labor is expensive in the U.S. We do not out source to cheaper countries. We are skilled U.S. and Canadian labor. To put this into perspective, the BH Maintenance Extension cost is about one days wages(probably less) of lower end skilled labor cost in the L.A. area. That's one days wages for a year of labor.
BloodHound and BlackBird are different from 97% of the indicators and strategies that are out there. Most indicators never change. Once they are created, the programmer costs end. Maybe there are one or two fixes after it is released, but basically the programmer costs come to an end. After that it is all profit for that vendor. As for BH & BB, we will always be improving it and adding new features to it. What that translates into is continuous labor costs. There are a few other vendors that do the same, and if you check, you will see those indicators are more costly due to a monthly or annual leasing cost. That continuous labor cost is not given away for free by anyone. The ones that did went out of business or soon will. NT is in a far superior position when you choose to purchase their software outright(vs. leasing monthly). They have 100% of all customers. Vendors get a much much smaller percentage of the NT customer base, thus our pricing has to be higher. Its simple supply & demand curve economics.

[COMMENTARY]
This is mainly applicable to new traders. If you think our software is to expensive you probably shouldn't be trading. If you are making around $50k/yr. or less, depending on your areas cost of living, you probably should not be trading, but rather contributing what disposable income you have to a retirement account. Good trading software is expensive. As the various U.S. Federal agency disclaimers state, "Risk capital is money that can be lost without jeopardizing ones financial security or lifestyle. Only risk capital should be used for trading and only those with sufficient risk capital should consider trading." That should be extended to purchasing trading software as well !


BloodHound for signals, and BlackBird for trade management.
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  #46 (permalink)
 tradertool 
Los Angeles, CA
 
Experience: Master
Platform: Ninja Trader, Meta Trader, Tradestation, Multicharts, Fibonacci Trader
Broker: AMP Futures
Trading: Eminis + Stocks
Posts: 16 since Oct 2009
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 13


SharkIndicators View Post
Correct. This is how all software works. Older versions of any software don't have the features/settings that the newer version of the software has, thus opening a newer file version within an older software version is going to break something.



Not true. You have two options:
#1 Purchase a Maintenance Extension when you feel it's necessary. e.g. If you go two years without updates, when you do purchase a Maintenance Extension you get three years for the price of 1. You get the previous two years of new features/capabilities, which is two years of programming cost for FREE, and the next year of updates which the cost pays for.
#2 Purchase the lifetime of Maintenance Extensions versions and be done with it.


NT should not be breaking things. That's on them. Why is it the vendor's responsibility to clean up NT's mistakes? From the vendor's stand point NT should be cleaning up the broken mess they caused. Yes, it stinks that customers get caught in the middle. Customers should petitioning NT to fix the issues they caused, not the vendors.


TraderTool, I see you live in the L.A. area. How much does skilled labor cost in southern CA? The Maintenance Extension cost goes to pay the ongoing programmer wages. It goes to pay the ongoing documentation person's wages. It goes to pay the ongoing free workshop training person's wages.
Labor is expensive in the U.S. We do not out source to cheaper countries. We are skilled U.S. and Canadian labor. To put this into perspective, the BH Maintenance Extension cost is about one days wages(probably less) of skilled labor cost in the L.A. area. That's one days wages for a year of labor.
BloodHound and BlackBird are different from 97% of the indicators and strategies that are out there. Most indicators never change. Once they are created, the programmer costs end. Maybe there are one or two fixes after it is released, but basically the programmer costs come to an end. After that it is all profit for that vendor. As for BH & BB, we will always be improving it and adding new features to it. What that translates into is continuous labor costs. There are a few other vendors that do the same, and if you check, you will see those indicators are more costly due to a monthly or annual leasing cost. That continuous labor cost is not given away for free by anyone. The ones that did went out of business or soon will. NT is in a far superior position when you choose to purchase their software outright(vs. leasing monthly). They have 100% of all customers. Vendors get a much much smaller percentage of the NT customer base, thus our pricing has to be higher. Its simple supply & demand curve economics.



YES. Skill labor is not cheap. That is why I paid a hefty sum of money to make the purchase. You are trying to double-dipping with that SKILLS. Besides, those high paying $15/hour (minimum in CA) quality work often times sucks compared to $5/hour programmers I find in Fiverrs. The place and quality or the price and quality equation is never a 100% solid number to begin your calculations anyway.

One more thing, if I want the headache of paying rent, utilities, labor, and so on, I wouldn't even begin trading. I would continue to trying to run a business. Most of us trade because somehow it is easier than going through a medical school, law school, or running a successful business.

Bottom line is that it is okay to charge a reasonable fee for maintenance. However, it became clear to me that the real profit maker for your company is the maintenance fees. You never place the maintenance fees on sale or special like other products. I wish I would have known before I made the purchase. You should post it right under the sales price of your product how much annual or life maintenance fee is for each product. I probably didn't buy it or thinking about paying for the maintenance fee before I make a purchase.

I want people to clearly understand material facts regarding the important purchase they are going to make.

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  #47 (permalink)
 guw75 
Frankfurt+Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader, esignal
Broker: IB
Trading: futures, options, stocks
Posts: 16 since May 2013
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 1

Hi Zac,

I am a user since 2016. First Bloodhound, later Blackbird. Its great software, which allows non programmers to easily test trading systems and ideas very efficiently.
Once the mechanics are learned, its a huge time saver.

For trading purposes, in my opinion there are still issues need to be fixed before using it for autotrading.
Major issue in my opinion: When internet connection interrupts or working station crashes, the Blackbird strategy will not be continued automatically after Blackbird has been restarted and/or internet has reconnected. Are there plans to fix this issue? For me this fixing this issue would be prerequisite to autotrade strategies in Blackbird live.

Best regards from Germany

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  #48 (permalink)
 
Silent warrior's Avatar
 Silent warrior 
Boston, MA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Rithmic/IQFeed
Trading: ES, ZB, GC, 6E, CL
Posts: 69 since Feb 2015
Thanks Given: 133
Thanks Received: 13

Zac-

Is Bloodhound compatible with indicators requiring Tick Replay yet (i.e. some cumulative delta & order flow indicators)?

I have been patiently waiting on this for a few years now (yes, also patiently paying software maintenance fees on the expectation that this will eventually be completed).

Also awaiting the long-standing feature request of parameter Optimization capability.


Sent from my iPhone using NexusFi mobile app

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  #49 (permalink)
 
jeremytang's Avatar
 jeremytang  SharkIndicators is an official Site Sponsor
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guw75 View Post
Hi Zac,

I am a user since 2016. First Bloodhound, later Blackbird. Its great software, which allows non programmers to easily test trading systems and ideas very efficiently.
Once the mechanics are learned, its a huge time saver.

For trading purposes, in my opinion there are still issues need to be fixed before using it for autotrading.
Major issue in my opinion: When internet connection interrupts or working station crashes, the Blackbird strategy will not be continued automatically after Blackbird has been restarted and/or internet has reconnected. Are there plans to fix this issue? For me this fixing this issue would be prerequisite to autotrade strategies in Blackbird live.

Best regards from Germany


Hi - thanks for mentioning this, this is indeed something we are looking into! Due to the complexities involved with solving this one, however we don't yet have a timeline for it however.

Jeremy

Futures, foreign currency, and options trading contains substantial risk and is not for every investor. See full risk disclosure here
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  #50 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,399 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,174
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