NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Finally Turning the Corner, tha "its 80% Psychology" thing...


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one TropicalTrader with 106 posts (511 thanks)
    2. looks_two joe s with 14 posts (15 thanks)
    3. looks_3 Sandpaddict with 8 posts (16 thanks)
    4. looks_4 Big Mike with 8 posts (52 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Grantx with 8.3 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 6.5 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 josh with 5.7 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 TropicalTrader with 4.8 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 61,553 views
    2. thumb_up 971 thanks given
    3. group 599 followers
    1. forum 241 posts
    2. attach_file 12 attachments




View Poll Results: Do You Even Scalp Bro?
Nope 63 27.39%
Nope
63 27.39%
Yea, under 10 round-turns a day 95 41.30%
Yea, under 10 round-turns a day
95 41.30%
Yea, avg 10-20 round-turns a day 46 20.00%
Yea, avg 10-20 round-turns a day
46 20.00%
Yea, over 20 round-turns a day 26 11.30%
Yea, over 20 round-turns a day
26 11.30%
Voters: 230. You may not vote on this poll

 
Search this Thread

Finally Turning the Corner, tha "its 80% Psychology" thing...

  #61 (permalink)
 
YogaTrading's Avatar
 YogaTrading 
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Dorman Trading
Trading: ES
Posts: 60 since Sep 2014
Thanks Given: 779
Thanks Received: 114


TropicalTrader View Post
Ouch, messed up. Confession time: so I traded well all morning, was really patient and honouring my per trade limits, then in the last hour went from being up 250 on the day to -250 for the day.. Took a couple full losses in a row (unlucky) and then made 2 undisciplined trades which both lost (chasing like a monkey).. Its amazing how I read my mistakes list everyday before I start and my process goal is to not make any of them, but I still often do. If I would have just accepted the loss (something I'm working on which has been my nemesis) I would have made up at least one of them with a valid setup I missed while chasing.

Something I've become increasingly aware of is that I can get decision fatigue or sucked into impulsive/careless trading after the 4 or 5 hour mark. I've been taking breaks and eating regular snacks to compensate for that which is helpful. I didn't sleep well last night though, have to be really careful on those types of days.

On the positive - the old me probably would have blown up his account after getting really frustrated. I just hit 1/2 of my daily risk limit.

I will review the video later and face palm myself repeatedly..

(Tip: using Open Broadcaster free software to record my sessions)

Suggestions Only:
Drink water when trading as much as you can.
create a new rule that says if you have a loss...you must wait 30 minutes before taking another trade...or some time element.
Your story rings loudly with every trader here on this forum.....they have experienced it in their journey, your not alone.

Cheers

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Build trailing stop for micro index(s)
Psychology and Money Management
The space time continuum and the dynamics of a financial …
Emini and Emicro Index
New Micros: Ultra 10-Year & Ultra T-Bond -- Live Now
Treasury Notes and Bonds
NexusFi Journal Challenge - April 2024
Feedback and Announcements
Futures True Range Report
The Elite Circle
 
  #62 (permalink)
 
josh's Avatar
 josh 
Georgia, US
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: Denali+Rithmic
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
Posts: 6,216 since Jan 2011
Thanks Given: 6,752
Thanks Received: 18,136


YogaTrading View Post
Suggestions Only:
Drink water when trading as much as you can.
create a new rule that says if you have a loss...you must wait 30 minutes before taking another trade...or some time element.

I'll present a counter opinion here -- of course, being dehydrated is just bad in general, for health. And as such, it certainly won't help your trading if you're dehydrated. Assuming you are not seriously dehydrated though.. drinking water will not help you trade better.

Losses are a part of trading. While some rule could be put in place to prevent a string of losses exceeding some amount, it's counterproductive to suggest that a loss should result in a "time out" ... I would imagine that this would practically paralyze a trader to the point of being unable to act, for fear of losing, thus facing the "no trading for 30 minutes" punishment.

Just my opinion, but I think traders are too afraid of losing already. We must be able to put on risk. That's the job of a trader -- put on calculated risk, learn how to lose small, and learn how to let the market pay us when we're aligned. We can't get paid by the market if we can't learn to put on risk, and we can't put on risk unless we are comfortable taking a loss, albeit a controlled/small one.

Reply With Quote
  #63 (permalink)
 nikotron1124 
Anahein+California
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: Gold
Posts: 29 since Oct 2012
Thanks Given: 206
Thanks Received: 35



TropicalTrader View Post


I highly recommend this book. It's now one of my top fav trading books. It really takes you into how our brains work while we're trading.. (tip: using Book Bazaar app to read aloud the ebook)

Yes, this is a real good book for traders.

Reply With Quote
  #64 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: EdgeClear Rithmic
Trading: MES
Posts: 125 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 241
Thanks Received: 552


josh View Post
No need to do that. We all make mistakes. I find that self-loathing is far worse than simply admitting that we made mistakes and moving on. When I do this, I say to myself, "stop being an idiot" (in a "wake up" way, not a self-loathing way) and I attempt to snap myself into a focus on the market (instead of a focus on my P&L), into taking the right trade (versus the trade I want to happen), and into a state of accepting what I see (instead of a state of hope that my clearly wrong trade--which I know probably won't work--happens to work).

I did the same thing early in the day, was down because I was distracted by a long term trade in another account and did not see the market objectively in my day trade account. Fortunately, I was able to crawl back to turn a decent enough profit; but I was fortunate in that I made my mistakes early, and you made yours late. It happens. We all do it.

What we have to be careful about, IMO, is being too cautious when this kind of thing happens. Capital preservation is key, but I've had days where I've lost big money, and was terrified to trade again that day or the next day. Some say to quit, take time off, etc. I think there's definitely a time for that, especially if there is genuine trauma or a lot of emotional/mental strain. But if the attitude shifts to what I mentioned above (it may be a different attitude shift for you, the above is just what works for me), then it makes sense to trade with conviction and get back in there. You know you can make $X -- it's just a number, so just go get it. I don't keep my P/L up either, though I do look at it, but only expressed in points, not currency. To me this keeps the focus to push hard and trade well and get points.


Good points Josh! I was semi-joking about the face palming, I did it a couple times and laughed.. I watched my session videos for the last couple days and was a little disgusted with how many trades I took that were not part of my setups. Considering I have 11 setups, wtf?! But I keep in perspective that I've had issues with discipline for a long time and they don't go away overnight.. Each day I get better and better.. By watching the video replay it brings another layer of awareness. I'm also doing some visualizations and imagine myself being tempted and then asking the question, is this one of my 11 playbook setups? And then, no its not, sit on your hands buddy. Each time I'm tempted to make a trade I will journal about that too, feeling really tempted right now but consistency is important to me. Hopefully the undisciplined trades will be in the rear view mirror soon. One thing that helps which I've been slacking on lately is using the replay function in sierra charts, since I trade renko, I can click brick by brick and make decisions. They're a little blind because I don't have my market profile levels but its good for enhancing my discipline and renewing confidence after losing days.

The distraction thing has been huge for me. For now I just focus on trading one market only. I'm developing and testing some ea's, I'm running those in a separate account and check them before and after my manual trading session. I've had to learn this the hard way. Before I was trying to manage swing trades in one account while trading short term in another and it was a losing battle. Gotta build the discipline muscles!

You're right about the fear factor part, not pulling the trigger has never been my issue though, its been pulling it too much.

Follow me on Twitter Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #65 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: EdgeClear Rithmic
Trading: MES
Posts: 125 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 241
Thanks Received: 552


josh View Post
I'll present a counter opinion here -- of course, being dehydrated is just bad in general, for health. And as such, it certainly won't help your trading if you're dehydrated. Assuming you are not seriously dehydrated though.. drinking water will not help you trade better.

Losses are a part of trading. While some rule could be put in place to prevent a string of losses exceeding some amount, it's counterproductive to suggest that a loss should result in a "time out" ... I would imagine that this would practically paralyze a trader to the point of being unable to act, for fear of losing, thus facing the "no trading for 30 minutes" punishment.

Just my opinion, but I think traders are too afraid of losing already. We must be able to put on risk. That's the job of a trader -- put on calculated risk, learn how to lose small, and learn how to let the market pay us when we're aligned. We can't get paid by the market if we can't learn to put on risk, and we can't put on risk unless we are comfortable taking a loss, albeit a controlled/small one.


I know I need a break when I start swearing in my trading journal.. I'm getting better at pulling myself away for 5-10 and then when I come back putting the emwave on and doing the diaphramatic breathing. My tendency is to go into fight mode and the anger makes me totally irrational. (monkey brain mode)

Follow me on Twitter Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #66 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: EdgeClear Rithmic
Trading: MES
Posts: 125 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 241
Thanks Received: 552

This is a great webinar imo...


Follow me on Twitter Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #67 (permalink)
 
YogaTrading's Avatar
 YogaTrading 
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Dorman Trading
Trading: ES
Posts: 60 since Sep 2014
Thanks Given: 779
Thanks Received: 114


josh View Post
I'll present a counter opinion here -- of course, being dehydrated is just bad in general, for health. And as such, it certainly won't help your trading if you're dehydrated. Assuming you are not seriously dehydrated though.. drinking water will not help you trade better.

Losses are a part of trading. While some rule could be put in place to prevent a string of losses exceeding some amount, it's counterproductive to suggest that a loss should result in a "time out" ... I would imagine that this would practically paralyze a trader to the point of being unable to act, for fear of losing, thus facing the "no trading for 30 minutes" punishment.

Just my opinion, but I think traders are too afraid of losing already. We must be able to put on risk. That's the job of a trader -- put on calculated risk, learn how to lose small, and learn how to let the market pay us when we're aligned. We can't get paid by the market if we can't learn to put on risk, and we can't put on risk unless we are comfortable taking a loss, albeit a controlled/small one.


https://www.hmpgloballearningnetwork.com/site/pcn/news/dehydration-impairs-cognitive-function

what I found interesting......in checking the color of your urine in the morning....in the last paragraph...if real clear..to much water..... if real gold in color not enough but without doubt dehydration can cause cognitive issues...based on research...not forum opinion

And any trader that does not have a "time out" plan of some sort....is not balanced in the risk category.....
according to Mark Douglas and Andrew Menaker...who write books about the psychology of trading

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #68 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,399 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,178
Thanks Received: 101,542

@TropicalTrader would you please come on and participate in our webinar series "An Afternoon With".. ?
@tturner86 can schedule it. Say yes

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #69 (permalink)
 TropicalTrader 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: EdgeClear Rithmic
Trading: MES
Posts: 125 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 241
Thanks Received: 552


Big Mike View Post
@TropicalTrader would you please come on and participate in our webinar series "An Afternoon With".. ?
@tturner86 can schedule it. Say yes

Wow, thanks for the offer Mike! Yes. May would be a better time for me and the audience as I'll have a few more things to share then..

P.S. Someone who I think would be an awesome guest is Steve of Paracurve.com (Formerly: No Brainer Trades). I did a 3-day course with him in 2014 when he was just trading forex. Since then he's made the leap to futures.. I think it make for a really interesting interview about that transition.

Follow me on Twitter Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #70 (permalink)
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 Big Mike 
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator
Developer
Swing Trader
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Weeks
Posts: 50,399 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 33,178
Thanks Received: 101,542


Awesome. Terry will reach out shortly to coordinate the date.

Topic is up to you. Can be your journey. Can be method. Whatever you want.
TropicalTrader View Post
Wow, thanks for the offer Mike! Yes. May would be a better time for me and the audience as I'll have a few more things to share then..

P.S. Someone who I think would be an awesome guest is Steve of Paracurve.com (Formerly: No Brainer Trades). I did a 3-day course with him in 2014 when he was just trading forex. Since then he's made the leap to futures.. I think it make for a really interesting interview about that transition.

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

We're here to help: just ask the community or contact our Help Desk

Quick Links: Change your Username or Register as a Vendor
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list
Lifetime Elite Membership: Sign-up for only $149 USD
Exclusive money saving offers from our Site Sponsors: Browse Offers
Report problems with the site: Using the NexusFi changelog thread
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote




Last Updated on April 13, 2021


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts