Do you understand their minimum tick size? It sounds Japanese to me:

Minimum Price Intervals:
10.00 points USD/XBT (equal to $10.00 per contract). The individual legs and net prices of spreads in XBT futures may be in increments of 0.01 points USD/XBT (equal to $0.01 per contract).

If price moving 1 USD how much you gonna make/lose?

tpredictor 

The CBOE contract seems more suitable for retail traders. It will be based on 1 BTC contract: Contract Specifications Looks like they are basing on Gemini only. This is interesting. I have seen other products that use multiple indexes are more difficult to tape read because you have situations where Asians are very bearish and US traders bullish or vice versa.. This might make it trade and behave better. But, also, possibly not as reflective of the world BTC price.

It sounds like, for a market entry and exit, you need a move a $20 to break even (lose $10 on entry and $10 on exit). This is comparable to the existing leveraged exchanges. If you capture the spread on exit, you would need a $10 move to break even. You can divide an average day's range or any move by $10 to figure up what it looks like in ticks.

On CME 1 tick=5 usd on bitcoin price and you make/lose 25$. So with CBOE if 1 tick is 10 usd on bitcoin price, you should make/lose 20-30 usd, otherwise its not leveraged. But its not clear now. I will write them an email today.

tpredictor 

It sounds like, for a market entry and exit, you need a move a $20 to break even (lose $10 on entry and $10 on exit). This is comparable to the existing leveraged exchanges. If you capture the spread on exit, you would need a $10 move to break even. You can divide an average day's range or any move by $10 to figure up what it looks like in ticks.

1 contract is equal to 1 Bitcoin. Leverage is determined by the combination of margin requirements and contract size. See my prior explanation to mattz. If I allow you to trade Bitcoin with $1 margin then that's ~12,000x leverage even though the granularity of the contract is 1:1. If you want more leverage, you'll just buy more contracts.

Large contracts are primarily a benefit to institutional traders because it reduces their trading costs which are based on per contract basis.

Basically, if you are trading less then 5 BTC contracts (or slightly more and want to split your orders up) then you will prefer the CBOE contract but if you want to trade 5 or more then the CME contract will likely be more cost effective. All things equal.

meow 

On CME 1 tick=5 usd on bitcoin price and you make/lose 25$. So with CBOE if 1 tick is 10 usd on bitcoin price, you should make/lose 20-30 usd, otherwise its not leveraged. But its not clear now. I will write them an email today.

I got reply to my email to CBOE:

There is no multiplier for the contract so, each contract is dollar for dollar. As of right now, the OCC has the initial margin set for 44% with maintenance set at 40%.

tpredictor 

1 contract is equal to 1 Bitcoin. Leverage is determined by the combination of margin requirements and contract size. See my prior explanation to mattz. If I allow you to trade Bitcoin with $1 margin then that's ~12,000x leverage even though the granularity of the contract is 1:1. If you want more leverage, you'll just buy more contracts. Large contracts are primarily a benefit to institutional traders because it reduces their trading costs which are based on per contract basis. Basically, if you are trading less then 5 BTC contracts (or slightly more and want to split your orders up) then you will prefer the CBOE contract but if you want to trade 5 or more then the CME contract will likely be more cost effective. All things equal.

Woha CME sets margin at 47% ...

currently overnight margin $38485 per 1 contract
Bitcoin Margins - [AUTOLINK]CME[/AUTOLINK] Group


if they are not gonna reduce margin then they should reduce contract size to 1 bitcoin at least like CBOE..

any idea what would be indraday margin for this ??

CME Bitcoin contract is dead on arrival, IMO. $38,000 margin requirement is nuts.

Neo1 

Bitcoin is so fragmented, and presumably inefficient compared to a mature futures product. So hypothetically speaking, what is going to happen if someone like JPM start selling BTC futures with crazy large size. How will this effective the underlying price at each BTC exchange?

Those games are possible only in our rigged stock and futures markets. Not going to affect BTC.

vk79 

Those games are possible only in our rigged stock and futures markets. Not going to affect BTC.

May I ask what makes you think that is not applicable to BTC? Is there a limit as to how many BTC Futures contract that a central bank can short ?

vk79 

Those games are possible only in our rigged stock and futures markets. Not going to affect BTC.

Actually it's more probable in BTC because of the tight control over BTC supply and how illiquid it is. The last I checked, it took only $5M to move the price 4%. At today's prices, maybe about $8M for 2%. By the same virtue, 1 person alone crashed the price of ETH to $0.10 in a single $30M trade. Someone Sold $30 Million Worth of [AUTOLINK]Eth[/AUTOLINK], Sending Price to $0.10 Temporarily

There's 1000 BTC wallets that have >$28M and can single-handedly crash the entire BTC market.

How many institutions do you think can move ES by 2% in a fat finger trade?