Hi,

I have labeled @ustaudinger as a vendor now that his product is no longer free. As a vendor, this means he is no longer allowed to make any post on futures.io (formerly BMT) to promote his product. If you have interest in his product, you will need to contact him directly.

Mike

ustaudinger 

Let's put it simple. "Everyone" is wrong.

Why would anyone trust you as a vendor of software if you do not even know what "open source" software means?

The discussion shifted a bit to what's OS and what's not.

r3algood 

Why would anyone trust you as a vendor of software if you do not even know what "open source" software means?

As MrYou also confirmed, "In agreement with @ustaudinger, open source does not mean the source code is widely available on demand. The producer is allowed to only provide the source code to the customers/end users of the software."

Again:
Quoting(!!) the OSI page:
1) "The license shall not restrict any party from selling [..] the software"
2) "The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in source code as well as compiled form"
3) "The license must allow modifications and derived work"

Look, you can make a program and sell it under a GPL license. Whether the one that bought GPL software gives this bought software away for free is totally irrelevant for GPL or OSI.

It is relevant that a user may modify the software, may re-sell the modified software (even at a price of 0) and in case of GPL that this resold software must be under the same license.

The spirit of OS is, that software source code is distributed along the program and to thus foster further development.


If you really want to dive further and read OSI,GPL, etc. consider the following two sources:
- Free Software vs. Open Source
- Fighting for freedom with freedom is more like it. | Digital Citizen

And from a laymans point of view:
- open source - Is it ethical/legal to modify sourceforge.net projects and sell them commercially? - Stack Overflow



So, r3algood, to conclude, I also wouldn't trust a vendor that puts OS on his product but doesn't know what OS means (see pts 1-3 above). Luckily I know!

artemiso 

@ustaudinger I'm not surprised from your previous actions that you now lift the words completely out of context to justify your agenda. The subheading clearly implied that those conditions applied to redistribution. You might as well have quoted: "The license[...] require[s]... selling.... and... must... place restrictions." What about: "there must be a well-publicized means of obtaining the source code for no more than a reasonable reproduction cost"?

Again, source code in OSI software must be available to the purchasers and users of OSI approved software. Reproduction cost refers to the availability of source code.

This means, if you already bought OSI software, the source code must be made available at reasonable cost. For example, a vendor can't just print the source code and ship it and charge 2000 USD for shipping and printing costs.

artemiso 

@ustaudinger You began with claims of an "open core" and asked for contributors. Then with no due notice, changed the way it was distributed in less than 3 months.

There was no change in the license. We are on Freshmeat as a since 2004 and since then it was always OS software. We just locked down the distribution circle, that's all.

artemiso 

@ustaudinger And now probed, point out that potential contributors must now contact you to become a private developer, and that they must give you something in return, and that you have to pay for access - which makes you a vendor, and that a covert advertisement. I don't have a problem with this because it's entirely your choice how to do business and I'm fine with vendor advertisements, but I am advising that it doesn't put you in a good light because anyone can imagine how 'jipped' one would feel if he had contributed to your project under the impression that was initially advertised 3 months ago.

The existing project contributors have always had and still have full access ...So I don't get your point?

Indeed, this was a bit unclear. Giving something in return doesn't mean money - it means a contribution, for example source code, documentation or time. Clients and contributors are two separate entities.

It's tricky to identify contributors that do not share the spirit of the group ...

artemiso 

@ustaudinger Both sam028 and I have pointed out that the problem lies with the access, not whether or not you are selling it. I've already stated in my second post that I well know that an open source redistribution may be sold, but this is an entirely different matter from false advertisement - how you're concealing several elements of what you had intended to do, and how you are misleading people about the nature of the deal. Cheers

Cheers!

@ustaudinger

It's clear that we will not come to an agreement about this.

If I may ask, what do you mean by 3 us in-application messaging? Is this 3 us per message? What's the size of the messages used for this benchmark?

It's a zombie thread, quick kill it kill it. Nope, it won't die

Seriously though, I found an open source platform which is actually open source and actually pretty good, StockSharp. It is coded by Russian developers so I've spent a lot of time translating comments and strings trying to figure out how this things works.

Great points:
It compiles out of the box!
Numerous data feed providers and brokers are already supported.
Super slick interface!

Iffy points:
It used a lot of commercial frameworks (i.e. acticpro). There is a StockSharp license tool which generates a local license and allows those frameworks to be used. I don't fully understand how they make this work but ok.

Bad:
Unless you are fluent in Russian, you're going to have a lot of translating to do. I have forked the StockSharp repository and created an English branch so please feel free to clone it....or send me pull requests
Chm file is in Russian and has over 15k htm pages. I have a thread open asking for help on translating this beast, link

Jasonnator 

Unless you are fluent in Russian, you're going to have a lot of translating to do. I have forked the StockSharp repository and created an English branch so please feel free to clone it....or send me pull requests Chm file is in Russian and has over 15k htm pages. I have a thread open asking for help on translating this beast, link

Interesting that you have found it, StockSharp, is on the free platforms that we will add to our new site shortly.
It's a very interesting platform model where it is free, unless you need support and then it charges monthly.
To the best of our understanding it could be connected via OEC (Gain Capital), which they said is rather good for this.

Matt

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading.

mattz 

Interesting that you have found it, StockSharp, is on the free platforms that we will add to our new site shortly. It's a very interesting platform model where it is free, unless you need support and then it charges monthly. To the best of our understanding it could be connected via OEC (Gain Capital), which they said is rather good for this. Matt There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading.

When you say you will add it to your new site do you mean the russian version or some English translation of the software?

gregid 

When you say you will add it to your new site do you mean the russian version or some English translation of the software?

We will initially launch it in its native language, however, the team at StockSharp told us that English version should be released shortly. Please PM me, I am interested in discussing this platform further with you.

Matt

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading.

The program already has built in support for the gui to operate in English. The developers used a master string class which contains both English and Russian (pretty clever). The comments in the code were Russian only but that it pretty easily translated, there's just a lot to translate.

If you install the binary they provide and use their license tool, you can use the platform complete with all features and an English interface.