goodoboy 

wow , thanks for sharing. Is BNF and CIS real traders?

you haven't heard of the day traders BNF or CIS? wow, you haven't been trading long then. both of them are day traders. they trade stocks and futures.

BNF:

CIS made $36 million going short on ES august 24, 2015 in a single day and he made even more selling puts on those futures at the low.

both of these guys started out with small accounts ($10k) and both of them exceed $100 million fairly quickly. BNF doesn't trade as much anymore but he's worth than $250 million USD. he owns a bunch of high value high rises in japan including the entire condo complex that he's in.

these guys are great traders, but they aren't even the best. a guy like vinny is basically pond scum in comparison since he doesn't even make any money trading. nothing he has ever posted has been verified by a 3rd party credible accounting firm. they would be liable for fraud and other things if they falsely report. if vinny made any real money he could have done at least what dan zanger did (another good day trader) and get his returns publicly audited, verified and certified by a 3rd party accounting firm.

here's dan zanger site: Dan in the Media

gammarisktrader 

you haven't heard of the day traders BNF or CIS? wow, you haven't been trading long then. both of them are day traders. they trade stocks and futures. BNF: CIS made $36 million going short on ES august 24, 2015 in a single day and he made even more selling puts on those futures at the low. both of these guys started out with small accounts ($10k) and both of them exceed $100 million fairly quickly. BNF doesn't trade as much anymore but he's worth than $250 million USD. he owns a bunch of high value high rises in japan including the entire condo complex that he's in. these guys are great traders, but they aren't even the best. a guy like vinny is basically pond scum in comparison since he doesn't even make any money trading. nothing he has ever posted has been verified by a 3rd party credible accounting firm. they would be liable for fraud and other things if they falsely report. if vinny made any real money he could have done at least what dan zanger did (another good day trader) and get his returns publicly audited, verified and certified by a 3rd party accounting firm. here's dan zanger site: Dan in the Media

Hello gammarisktrader,

I really appreciate you for sharing this with me. Thank you. I am completely blown away right now by this youtube video of CIS and BNF. I never knew about this.

I agree with you, getting a 3rd party credible accounting firm to validate a trader/seller trading track record is the ultimate proof. Thanks for sharing that with me.

Do you have any youtube or another source that shows where CIS and BNF trading records were validated by a 3rd party auditing source? I really would like to see it.

Lol, one thing I notice about Vinny, he never showed broker statements from that trading contest with Ross.

Thank you,

goodoboy 

Hello gammarisktrader, I really appreciate you for sharing this with me. Thank you. I am completely blown away right now by this youtube video of CIS and BNF. I never knew about this. I agree with you, getting a 3rd party credible accounting firm to validate a trader/seller trading track record is the ultimate proof. Thanks for sharing that with me. Do you have any youtube or another source that shows where CIS and BNF trading records were validated by a 3rd party auditing source? I really would like to see it. Lol, one thing I notice about Vinny, he never showed broker statements from that trading contest with Ross. Thank you,

here's BNF's returns being verified and shown on japanese national tv. his returns have been verified many times by 3rd parties publicly.

for CIS, a lot of his returns were reported via bloomberg the publication. the original article on the bloomberg terminal is now buried, but copy linked articles to the same article have been posted:

https://financialpost.com:443/investing/global-investor/while-many-panicked-during-mondays-market-crash-a-japanese-day-trader-made-us34-million

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/11/28/business/mystery-man-boasts-can-shift-nikkei-single-tweet-release-book-japan-trading-philosophy/

anyhow all of these sources are credible. these are major news organization verifying what we already know about these traders since they also post on twitter (at least CIS does still). you can follow some of their big moves before they execute them.

for dan zanger, his returns have been certified and published. i'll need to find a link but i am sure his wikipedia probably has a link for it. he did make a world record (at the time) for going from $10k to $18 million in about 2 years and forbes, fortune, and commodities trader magazines all did articles about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Zanger

here's dan zanger's 3rd party verified audit: https://chartpattern.com/articles/effron.pdf the audit only shows going from $10k to $3 million in it, but when he did the interviews he was already north of $18 million and i believe he got up to $45 million on his first run.

goodoboy 

wow , thanks for sharing.

This is a sample from Vinny's traderoom on how he talks to his members. I'm not a paying member myself and won't be after seeing this.
Have you ever wondered how a mentally unstable person acts, then this is it. He needs some sort of therapy. This is not normal.



Kicking and banning a paying GOLD member for asking a question.
Why would you pay someone thousands of dollars and then risk getting banned for asking a question he disliked?




Alternative pic links:
https://postimg.cc/sGydFQdD
https://postimg.cc/946HpgL9
https://postimg.cc/N9RqP8nz

gammarisktrader 

you haven't heard of the day traders BNF or CIS? wow, you haven't been trading long then. both of them are day traders. they trade stocks and futures. BNF: CIS made $36 million going short on ES august 24, 2015 in a single day and he made even more selling puts on those futures at the low. both of these guys started out with small accounts ($10k) and both of them exceed $100 million fairly quickly. BNF doesn't trade as much anymore but he's worth than $250 million USD. he owns a bunch of high value high rises in japan including the entire condo complex that he's in. these guys are great traders, but they aren't even the best. a guy like vinny is basically pond scum in comparison since he doesn't even make any money trading. nothing he has ever posted has been verified by a 3rd party credible accounting firm. they would be liable for fraud and other things if they falsely report. if vinny made any real money he could have done at least what dan zanger did (another good day trader) and get his returns publicly audited, verified and certified by a 3rd party accounting firm. here's dan zanger site: Dan in the Media

Good Morning gammarisktrader,

Great conversation.

Just to make sure I perfectly understand you, Vinny trading contest would be valid for his $150k trading results if his results was audit by an independent 3rd party service? Similar to what CIS and BNF did?

If the answer is yes, I would agree with you as well. If someone can make $150k to brag about to obtain customers of trading education, they should be able to obtain a 3rd party audit trading service to prove ethics.

Let me know if we are thinking alike now.

Analytic 

1) The 'trading contest' with Ross Cameron was fake. Cameron had no idea he was even in a contest 2) The 'trading contest' results are NOT verified by a regulated 3rd party. They may be fake even though he shows what looks like a real CQG trading account in the NT8 Trade Performance tool. I spoke with Ninjatrader support and they said it's possible to hack the NT8 local SQL compact database and replace account names. Vinny has done private youtube livestreams which can be edited. Also he could be using a delayed data feed in sim and then hacking the local DB to replace the account name with one that looks like a real CGQ account. We have seen that his public youtube livestream trading performance is far worse than his performance in his recent private streams. 3) There is no regulated 3rd party verification that Vinny has made any money trading ever over a 2 year or longer period. 4) He blew up his collective2 trading account and then made excuses about the C2 server being down which there is no proof of (we have not seen the server logs/C2 won't show them). There is only some proof that he couldn't connect to the C2 server from his browser at certain points in time but his -51K trade was open for 4-5 days according to C2. Vinny never showed his broker statements or actual NT8 trade executions for that trading period to prove that he really didn't lose money and that it was just a C2 reporting issue. 5) Vinny admitted on video to running the 'trading contest' against Ross for marketing purposes. 6) Over the years numerous people have asked him to show his NT8 trade execution window it has been reported that he simply banned them from his discord room. 7) Vinny will usually not show the last few digits of his trading account in his 'broker statements' making it impossible to verify that he is trading the same account 8) Spoke with AMP support about Vinny's broker statements. They refused to verify them and told me to assume that they are fake. 9) Vinny has had many trading disasters where algobox traps him in bad trades and then he takes massive losses. Of course we don't really know how big the losses were in percentage terms because until recently he did not show the 'total money' in his account. See his trading for 9/26-29/2016, 2/11/2019, 10/24-30/2019 for a few examples.

Good Morning Analytic,

Thank you for this post. I took some time to review your response again in detail.

Help me out with a few questions please.

1.

Analytic 

Vinny never showed his broker statements or actual NT8 trade executions for that trading period to prove that he really didn't lose money Over the years numerous people have asked him to show his NT8 trade execution window it has been reported that he simply banned them from his discord room.

Why is NT8 trade executions important for validation? Can you explain this? Just trying to understand how trade executions is needed to validate Vinny trades

https://prnt.sc/20xobl8 example of trade executions

https://prnt.sc/20xo9xb here is Vinny equity curve during the contest.

2.

Analytic 

Also he could be using a delayed data feed in sim

So are you saying that Vinny could have delayed data feed in SIM he is taking trades with and recording for viewers while watching the real time data feed to time the trades for a win?

Thank you,

goodoboy 

Good Morning gammarisktrader, Great conversation. Just to make sure I perfectly understand you, Vinny trading contest would be valid for his $150k trading results if his results was audit by an independent 3rd party service? Similar to what CIS and BNF did? If the answer is yes, I would agree with you as well. If someone can make $150k to brag about to obtain customers of trading education, they should be able to obtain a 3rd party audit trading service to prove ethics. Let me know if we are thinking alike now.

we aren't having a conversation. you keep on steering the conversation on towards how to validate vinny when really there's nothing he has done that is valid. he never had any 'trading contest' with ross. ross wasn't aware that he was in any competition. if vinny really wants to prove himself he should win either the robbins trading contest or the US investing contest. you just seem to avoid the actual information posted by folks like

TickTricksta 

This is a sample from Vinny's traderoom on how he talks to his members. I'm not a paying member myself and won't be after seeing this. Have you ever wondered how a mentally unstable person acts, then this is it. He needs some sort of therapy. This is not normal. Kicking and banning a paying GOLD member for asking a question. Why would you pay someone thousands of dollars and then risk getting banned for asking a question he disliked? Alternative pic links: https://postimg.cc/sGydFQdD https://postimg.cc/946HpgL9 https://postimg.cc/N9RqP8nz

his screenshots are pretty damning about vinny and how he does things. he's clearly motivated only by marketing. part of his 'terms of service' is that he forces you to market for him forever to use his irrelevant software. you would think that if he or his students made any actual money trading using the software they would be all multi-millionaires by now and not marketing driven people. ie if his software worked as advertised, one of his pupils could be on the level of BNF and break free of his tyranny by becoming actually financially independent. vinny and all of his students are not financially independent. that's pretty clear.

so to put us on the same page, if he can win the robins trading challenge or US investing championships (ie an actual audited trading contest) then maybe he's valid.

https://financial-competitions.com/

vinny claims to have a million dollar account if so he should win the
MONEY MANAGER VERIFIED RATINGS ($1 MILLION+ Accounts)
or the
ENHANCED GROWTH DIVISION (Futures and/or options) division there... shouldn't be too hard you only need 300% or so be the top dog for the year. for vinny that should be easy right?

or

he could win the robbins futures trading challenge
https://www.worldcupchampionships.com/

https://www.worldcupchampionships.com/world-cup-trading-championship-standings

he would only need to get between 300% to 400% returns for the year to claim the top spot. the all time high spot is larry williams with 1200% returns, so if vinny could top larry's return he would be the all time champion for that contest. he claims to have done it already so it should be easy for him to enter and win. he'll of course make a lot of excuses and deflections on why he can't do it or that people in the contest are trading using multiple accounts etc. i believe there is no rule stating he couldn't have many accounts running or at least many people using his same strategies running.

for example, a lot of mark minervini's students all enter the US investing championships at the same time. quite often most of the top 20 spots and division winners are filled with either he or his students throughout the years. last year oliver kell (another person using a similar strategy to mark minervini) was able to place the top spot after obtaining over 900% return for the year.

goodoboy 

So are you saying that Vinny could have delayed data feed in SIM he is taking trades with and recording for viewers while watching the real time data feed to time the trades for a win? Thank you,

@goodoboy, this was addressed to @Analytic, but I just want to jump in and point out that we have seen things like this done many times in the past. It's a favorite of some guru types to put up videos where they seem to be trading very effectively, but it's because they already have the script.

There was a very long, detailed thread about a year ago where a vendor was caught out because he made the mistake of showing his DOM when he did his "trades," and lo and behold, the very sizable trades he showed on his chart never were reflected there.... because they never were reported to the exchange -- in other words, were just sim. It's an interesting but very long thread, so I won't go into it more here. But the vendor's company collapsed after he was exposed, and he fled.

He had some really great YouTube videos, though.

There have been similar schemes that have come out at other times.

This is why I have said, often, that videos on YouTube are no proof of anything, nor are any screenshots of anything in NT, nor copies even of broker statements (how easy are those to fake?) There is nothing anyone can present online that is satisfactory proof of anything.

I have no idea if Vinny is showing real trades or not. But that is the point -- you can't tell if any trades on YouTube are real or not, unless by mistake or ignorance someone shows their DOM and their trades don't show up there.

Sorry to jump in ahead of @Analytic's response to the question, but this is why video "proof" is not exactly proof. I would not trust anything just because there was a nice video about it.

Bob.

-------------------

Here's that thread I mentioned. It's very long and the part about the trades not showing on the DOM comes in quite a bit after this early post, but it's in there::

Daytrading.Coach Review Hello, Has anyone heard about this vendor - The vendor is based in Alberta, Canada. To me it appears that they are reselling indicators packaged with the education course. Just wanted to check if anyone on this forum has come across this vendor …

@goodoboy, the question has come up, and I know you have responded, but I have been asked to ask you whether you are either Vinny or someone working for Vinny or marketing for Vinny.

I cautioned @gammarisktrader on the subject previously, but the issue there was about making an accusation, which is a matter of rudeness. This is just a question, meant to get your answer down clearly.

I understand that someone who has doubts will not be satisfied, but that is fine. It will be down in plain view.

Thanks.

Bob.

bobwest 

@goodoboy, this was addressed to @Analytic, but I just want to jump in and point out that we have seen things like this done many times in the past. It's a favorite of some guru types to put up videos where they seem to be trading very effectively, but it's because they already have the script. There was a very long, detailed thread about a year ago where a vendor was caught out because he made the mistake of showing his DOM when he did his "trades," and lo and behold, the very sizable trades he showed on his chart never were reflected there.... because they never were reported to the exchange -- in other words, were just sim. It's an interesting but very long thread, so I won't go into it more here. But the vendor's company collapsed after he was exposed, and he fled. He had some really great YouTube videos, though. There have been similar schemes that have come out at other times. This is why I have said, often, that videos on YouTube are no proof of anything, nor are any screenshots of anything in NT, nor copies even of broker statements (how easy are those to fake?) There is nothing anyone can present online that is satisfactory proof of anything. I have no idea if Vinny is showing real trades or not. But that is the point -- you can't tell if any trades on YouTube are real or not, unless by mistake or ignorance someone shows their DOM and their trades don't show up there. Sorry to jump in ahead of @Analytic's response to the question, but this is why video "proof" is not exactly proof. I would not trust anything just because there was a nice video about it. Bob. ------------------- Here's that thread I mentioned. It's very long and the part about the trades not showing on the DOM comes in quite a bit after this early post, but it's in there:: Daytrading.Coach Review Hello, Has anyone heard about this vendor - The vendor is based in Alberta, Canada. To me it appears that they are reselling indicators packaged with the education course. Just wanted to check if anyone on this forum has come across this vendor …

Hello Bob,

Thanks for the information sir. I am glad you showed me this. I think its best I just not trust anyone selling me to something, better yet just stop looking and keep on watching the charts like I am doing and starring at price, trading sim, and keep on programming and back testing my own trading ideas.

I think you are correct, if he is making so much money, why sell it? Also, Vinny have no 3rd party audit verification of his track record. If he has so much money, he can afford a 3rd party audit of his trades.