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Yet another mass shooting


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Yet another mass shooting

  #491 (permalink)
 
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 MNSTrading 
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WoodyFox View Post

Remember 60% of gun related deaths are suicide and these people would just choose a different method with out access to a gun.


But less work for the coroner.

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  #492 (permalink)
 martinhunting 
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An average of 24 people per minute are victims of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner in the United States — more than 12 million women and men over the course of a single year.
WoodyFox View Post
In Australia, 100's of women are Rapped and abused daily and your country is only second to South Africa in Rape and Domestic Violence. There must be an obsession with abuse among Australian men.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country

Maybe we should require all Australian men to use Chlordiazepoxide to keep them from getting erections. Only once you get a permit will you be allowed to have one.



My point is...Its not the gun or pecker, fix the person.


Yes, I do realize America is third...I am making a point.

An average of 24 people per minute are victims of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner in the United States — more than 12 million women and men over the course of a single year.
https://www.thehotline.org/. stakeholders domestic-violence-statistics

Nearly 1 million women in the U.S. today who have survived being shot or shot at by an intimate partner —and guns are largely to blame. Intimate partner homicides that involve firearms are increasing, research shows, while those involving other weapons, like knives, are falling. Between 2010 and 2017, intimate partner homicides that involved guns increased by 26%, a study found in March. (Time. com)

Every country is home to domestic abusers. Only America gives them easy access to an arsenal and ammunition."

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  #493 (permalink)
 
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martinhunting View Post
An average of 24 people per minute are victims of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner in the United States — more than 12 million women and men over the course of a single year.

An average of 24 people per minute are victims of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner in the United States — more than 12 million women and men over the course of a single year.
https://www.thehotline.org/. stakeholders domestic-violence-statistics

Nearly 1 million women in the U.S. today who have survived being shot or shot at by an intimate partner —and guns are largely to blame. Intimate partner homicides that involve firearms are increasing, research shows, while those involving other weapons, like knives, are falling. Between 2010 and 2017, intimate partner homicides that involved guns increased by 26%, a study found in March. (Time. com)

Every country is home to domestic abusers. Only America gives them easy access to an arsenal and ammunition."


I think you missed the point I was trying to make. It was a simple analogy and I didn't mean to trigger you about Rape and Domestic Violence?

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  #494 (permalink)
 
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 Pariah Carey 
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Pariah Carey View Post
Today is the five-year anniversary of the Newtown, CT school shooting. I remember that day, and the days afterward. To the country it felt like a small scale Sept. 11, to those in Newtown it was Sept. 11.

I'm on record here in the forum as being an avid gun owner. Always will be, unless I one day move somewhere they're not allowed. But my attitude toward guns has changed, I think because of the shootings that occurred earlier this year, and also because (unlike five years ago) now I'm a father.

It's a complicated situation. I try to understand both sides of the issue. It's unfair to penalize the 99% of lawful gun owners with onerous, burdensome gun control legislation that may or may not work. And if a deranged person wants to kill a bunch of people, they'll find a way.

But something is fundamentally wrong with our society when children are murdered in their classrooms at school, or mothers and babies are killed worshipping at church, and basically nobody does a damn thing about it. Our society (or the majority for political purposes) has responded by saying, "We'll bear that cost. It's worth it." I don't know. I suppose I've taken that stance previously without really saying it, but I no longer can.

But what can be done? There are already so many guns in circulation. And politically, it's well-nigh impossible. I'm 43 and I wouldn't be surprised if there is never any meaningful gun control in my lifetime.

I understand that most gun violence is between people who know each other, or is the result of drug or gang crimes. Those are very different than the random mass shootings that get all the attention. But the latter kind shock the conscience so much, they are so unbecoming and unacceptable for a developed world leader like the U.S.

And it's not just a mental health problem. It's not enough to just blame "crazy people." From the little bit I've read on the subject, most mentally ill people are not prone to violence.

I don't know what it'll take. Everyone knows that any day now we'll have another random mass shooting. I bet somewhere out there is a guy with the goal of being America's first triple digit fatality mass shooter. Actually I do know what it'll take: a lot more deaths, a lot more people burying their loved ones and children. Then maybe people will change their attitude.

Many times when I drop my little girl off at school I think, "today could be the day. The day a deranged man shoots his way in, and no one can stop it."

It's not possible to take the guns away, and I don't think they should. If you want to own a firearm, including the military-style ones used in these shootings (I have several) you should. But the process to get one should be harder.

It’s been over four years since I made this post. After 19 school children were murdered this week in Texas I want to revisit it and maybe get some more discussion on this topic.

My views have not changed since I posted that. If anything I have become more cynical and apathetic about this country’s attitude toward gun violence and mass shootings in particular. I am convinced there will be no end to it in my lifetime; it will probably increase with the sheer number of firearms produced and bought the last few years.

Everyone knows that the reason America leads the developed world in gun deaths (and it’s not even close) is because we have so many guns. To say otherwise is like arguing the sky is orange. I’m pretty sure we don’t have a bigger proportion of violent people than Great Britain or Switzerland or Japan. We just have more guns. Lots more.

Deranged killers may be crazy but they’re not stupid. They know if you want to kill a bunch of people in an enclosed space in a short amount of time, you get a gun. It’s a lot easier than learning how to make a bomb. And the best tool for the job (and this too isn’t even close) is the AR15 class of rifles. It fires a .223 caliber bullet exiting the barrel at about 3200 feet per second. The damage it does to soft tissue (the human body) is absolutely devastating. I mean pistols can mess you up too, but it’s nothing like a rifle. And the best part about ARs is that you can buy them everywhere, they’re relatively cheap (about $500 for an entry level model) and they’re easy to operate.

So there you have it.

People ask, what can be done to stop this? I truly believe the answer is: nothing. When you’ve got so many guns out there, and so many of these young men (and they’re almost always young men) walk among us and, yes, maybe they display some odd behavior, but they still can pass a background check with flying colors, there’s nothing to stop a couple of them a year from getting a gun and going to a school or church or mall and killing a bunch of people.

Gun owners like to say “freedom isn’t free.” They’re right. Nice things in life, good things, they have a cost. A nice house, a fancy car. Clean air. Even the right to bear arms. You have to pay for that stuff. And how do we in the U.S. pay for our right to have a gun, almost any kind of gun we want with very little regulation?

With dead kids. That’s how we pay for it. And so far, for all these years, our country has said that’s a price we’re willing to pay. We may not like it, but we pay it and we tolerate it.

So, like before, I really don’t have an answer. I believe that we, as a country and as a society, are just reaping what we’ve sown the last couple generations. In terms of more guns and the gun industry getting more powerful politically.

Banning certain types of guns will never get off the ground and it wouldn’t work. Expanded and tougher background checks, people will still slip through the cracks. I’ve thought maybe of taxing guns and ammo like cigarettes. Just tax the hell out of them and use that money for more police at schools, funding for mental health intervention, stuff like that. But I’m not real confident that the government would manage a program like that competently.

And speaking of government competence, I have to switch gears here a little bit. It appears from the shooting in Texas this week that there was a catastrophic dereliction of duty by both the police and the school. First, it took police 14 minutes to respond to the first 911 call. Unacceptable. Second, the shooter was outside the school firing the gun for 10 minutes before he went in! How did he even get in the school??? And then he got into the classroom which has a steel and concrete reinforced door!!! Why wasn’t that thing locked shut???

This looks worse than the Parkland, Florida shooting which featured a whole bunch of screw ups. I think some heads are going to roll and a nine-figure lawsuit is coming.

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  #495 (permalink)
 
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We spend so much protected our judges and politicians...armed Security guards and metal detectors everywhere for them. But we lock our kids in unprotected schools. Really? School districts need to step up and start protecting properly. JMHO.

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  #496 (permalink)
 
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WoodyFox View Post
We spend so much protected our judges and politicians...armed Security guards and metal detectors everywhere for them. But we lock our kids in unprotected schools. Really? School districts need to step up and start protecting properly. JMHO.

Well, it might have something to do with judges and politicians making so many enemies. What enemy does a child have? Children shouldn't need to be protected with police and metal detectors. It's a sad commentary that we do need to.

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  #497 (permalink)
 
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WoodyFox View Post
Then why lock school doors? They obviously have nothing to worry about...Really

Try reading it again.

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  #498 (permalink)
 JBWTrader 
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what i dont understand is why do certain States within USA have a situation where they need full auto , semi auto weapons ?..i heard a reason, wild boar killing having to use automatic/semi auto weapons... and people carrying guns around like coz they feel threatened or what ? when i went to the States many times, i didnt feel threatened...maybe i got lucky but i have lived and worked in much more threatening countries...
is it like a show off type thing ? are they really scared of getting killed ? are they wanting a fight ? is it for boasting ? is it for a visual warning shot to those who may give it a go ? i would love to hear the real reasons from US citizens..

all that said...a crazy person who has deep down rage that is misplaced will lash out but their choices how to lash out even if premediated can have huge differences in number of killed and injured....how far does one want to take it ? rocket launches ? drones that fire a missile ? thank goodness ave Joe cant get hold of these....

I love the States and its people...dont get me wrong ewvery country has had to deal with these sort of extremes...I worry the USA is going to fragment on Abortion, gun control etc and implode leading to civil war... i bloody really hope not.. never an easy answer

I wonder what the founding fathers would think of it all now...

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  #499 (permalink)
 
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JBWTrader View Post
what i dont understand is why do certain States within USA have a situation where they need full auto , semi auto weapons ?..i heard a reason, wild boar killing having to use automatic/semi auto weapons... and people carrying guns around like coz they feel threatened or what ? when i went to the States many times, i didnt feel threatened...maybe i got lucky but i have lived and worked in much more threatening countries...
is it like a show off type thing ? are they really scared of getting killed ? are they wanting a fight ? is it for boasting ? is it for a visual warning shot to those who may give it a go ? i would love to hear the real reasons from US citizens..

all that said...a crazy person who has deep down rage that is misplaced will lash out but their choices how to lash out even if premediated can have huge differences in number of killed and injured....how far does one want to take it ? rocket launches ? drones that fire a missile ? thank goodness ave Joe cant get hold of these....

I love the States and its people...dont get me wrong ewvery country has had to deal with these sort of extremes...I worry the USA is going to fragment on Abortion, gun control etc and implode leading to civil war... i bloody really hope not.. never an easy answer

I wonder what the founding fathers would think of it all now...

thanks for readings


Best
John

First of all, it seems non-Americans tend to think of this in terms of "need." That is a huge flaw in logic. As an argument, it is weak. Really, why does anyone need 99% of the things they have? Why does anyone need to be able to hop in a private plane? They're bad for the environment, risk the lives of people in the plane and on the ground. Why do so many people feel the need for religion? Why should people be allowed to have 3D printers. Tons of plastic are generated daily for the stupidest of useless trinkets that just end up in landfills or the oceans. Why are cars and trucks not more regulated? More people die from cars in the US than from guns.... 3 to 4 times more if suicide is discounted in the calculus.

Now, that isn't a defense of guns. I only intended to point out how "need" is irrelevant to most things in our lives. It's a kind of philosophical question isn't it? While it does have merit in that regard, equally so do the questions I asked above as well. That is part of why there is a gun problem in the US... philosophy.

From a factual perspective, guns are relatively safe. There are some 300 to 400 million guns in the US by some accounts. That we don't experience more gun violence than we do is AMAZING, imo! They are also a deterrent to tyranny as intended by the founding fathers. A year ago, it would have been laughable, but you know, to guard against a Russian invasion. Again... I am NOT offering these words in defense of guns. I'm just trying to explain how some in our American culture view guns.

Bottom line, it is and has been a part of our culture for centuries! Changes to culture are always hard if not nearly impossible. It isn't likely this will change anytime soon. It is more tragic than words that children are being murdered like this. They should not be the cost for owning guns.

I have several guns. I will NEVER be a member of the NRA. If legislation meant I had to give up my guns for the sake of saving children, I would consider it a civic duty and honor. But, as a responsible and legal gun owner, I know I would not use them against innocent children or people. There is zero chance of my guns killing anyone. I have never pulled a gun on anyone. I have never shot at anyone. I don't think about it or want to harm another human being. I use words to resolve conflict and address depression. That describes 99.99% of American gun owners.

Secondly, you lump automatic and semi-automatic weapons together. They are not equal. Most Americans don't have access to full auto weapons. I don't have statistics on this but I believe very few if any of these school shooters used full auto. As for semi-auto? Virtually every gun is semi-automatic. I even have a semi-automatic shotgun, strictly for hunting and clay pigeon shooting. If you outlaw semi-auto weapons, you are essentially outlawing guns. That's an awful big ask when we can't even get Congress to agree on restricting specific lethal weapons or on background checks.

I don't know what the solution is. The gun debate is warranted. It shouldn't be a political party thing, but it is. America is huge. We are as big as Europe in land mass. While we generally all speak the same language and are under a single sovereignty, our sub-cultures are nearly as different as are those of Europe. We are just as divided. Trying to get everyone on the same page on any topic is difficult. Look at the EU and the challenges they face.

I hope y'all will forgive my midnight meandering. I really don't have an argument for or against guns. I honestly believe that the US approach to mental health (as in it's nearly non-existent) is a greater cause of concern. Divisiveness caused by political leaders throwing red meat to their constituents and a lack of responsibility for things said publicly are a greater concern. Some people will use that as a defense for guns. I'm not. By themselves, a match and a powder keg are relatively harmless. Put them together and BOOM. That is what we have in America.

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  #500 (permalink)
Symple
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Absolute clear statement to this specific topic in the US:

Warriors Coach Steve Kerr gives angry, emotional statement on Texas school shooting



Symple

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