I think my trading definitely effects my moods and the people around but much less than before. I do this a few hours a day. My husband gets worried about it but I never risk what I cannot afford to lose and I assure him it is my hobby and a lot of fun for me. But it is second to the important things in life: family. I meditate every morning before I trade and every evening before I sleep. I sleep well, eat well and exercise.

Really, really great topic Mike. This really is a critical point to ones success. And there certainly are a lot of ways one can look at this and situations that can be difficult. If the family does not respect it as the business that it is, it will make life more difficult for you, the trader, without a doubt and can even contribute to ones inability to become profitable. I struggled with this for a while with my wife in terms of her not letting me work and focus like I should at at first. She would “interrupt” me at the absolute worst times (not intentionally), but coming and asking me about something for example and especially in the beginning stages of learning (the first few years) it would always effect my trading negatively. I tried to look at it more causatively by stating to myself, I just need to get my focus in better and not blame anyone but myself for any losing trades. And there is a large degree of truth to that but, why the heck don’t you just get into a room and shut the door? As time went on and I started to become profitable and really understand how to read the price action and trade, those distractions actually became much less of an issue. Also, to include her in my trading and to elicit her “help”, I started giving her 10% of my winning trades each day, in cash. She is a stay at home wife and mom and that little extra “side job” goes a long ways with her. She started actually helping me to concentrate by making sure things were quite and making sure meals were done on time for me to get into the market and start. I can see how much she started contributing to my success as a trader. It’s not that she is self-centered and just wants “stuff” for herself. But fortunately or unfortunately, money talks and it also let her help me.

So those two things: Getting into a relatively quite location and involving her in my trading helped a lot. These days I understand what the market is doing so well, even average things that can distract someone do not really have too much of an impact as when I was first learning. So, with the two things I mentioned above, the third thing is to make sure you understand what you are doing in your trading well enough to have the confidence that even things that would distract you before are not a factor.

Hope that helps!
Larry

Big Mike 

I'd like to talk about the psychology of having/not having support from your wife (and kids) in your trading business. First, notice I used the word business. Trading is a business! If you run it any other way, it's just gambling. From students and friends that I've talked to, it seems many times "the wife and kids" have no appreciation for what you are doing. They don't support it or respect it. Examples would be constant interruptions throughout the day or nagging remarks in the bedroom, etc. Why do you think this happens? I think that unless you are a trader yourself, it is about impossible to fully respect the emotional roller-coaster trader's experience, the psychological impact, the stress, the preparation required, the concentration, all of it. So you cannot completely fault an outsider, even your wife or kids, for not being able to fully appreciate it. They can't, not until they are no longer an outsider! Needless to say, trying to succeed in trading is hard enough without problems of lack of support from your loved ones. I think there are a few angles to approach this from. One, if your family is not in a financially stable situation and you are "home all day playing on the computer" instead of out in the "real world looking for a job", then you can expect this is not a good situation and you have to understand that you are risking a lot for your own personal happiness. But two/second, if you are in a somewhat stable situation, then it is possible your loved ones still do not appreciate or possibly even condone trading because they feel it is just a toy/hobby or even gambling, a "no win" situation, etc. Assuming the second situation, one possible way to overcome this barrier is to involve your loved ones more. In fact, doing so will almost certainly dramatically improve your trading since most trading mistakes are due to psychological missteps, by thinking things through more carefully so you don't make mistakes when explaining them to others and look like a fool, you'll find that you're actually a much better trader for it. The first two to three years of your trading business is probably a losing proposition in terms of your bank statement. That's true of any business of any nature. It's also true most businesses fail within two years, just as most traders do. Your wife and kids need to understand that this is a business, and just like if you opened a restaurant, or a fitness club, a computer/electronics storefront, any of these things --- they are all risks and require support as well as "leaps of faith" in order to be successful. Just like you could hopefully turn to your wife and kids to support you in your new business venture of starting a "fitness club", and get them involved and make them feel like they are contributing, you can also do the same thing with trading! Most families and outsiders think trading is pure gambling and frown on it. They think you are a degenerate for trading and spending your life savings or not looking out for your family. I think there are two extremes here -- one, it is possible to treat trading like a gambling addiction in which case you don't know when to stop. But it's also possible to treat trading like any normal business. If you started a coffee shop and invested 50k of your own money, and 3 years later it failed, most likely your wife and parents and friends would not disown you. However, in trading, they just might. It's a stigma. Unless you are willing or capable of doing this on your own, the best way to combat this stigma is by involvement. Not just involvement for the sake of understanding of the complexities of trading by your loved ones, but involvement for the sake them better understanding the pleasure and joy it brings to your life. Most men would do anything for their wife and kids if they knew it would bring them joy and happiness, even at great financial cost. The same is true in reverse, your wife and kids need to give you some freedom and room to experience these things even at great financial cost. So what are some of the better ways to involve your wife and kids? Well, I hope to hear from you guys! But here are some of my suggestions (although I'm not currently married, and have no kids!) - Don't just make them watch. Give them something to do. - What they do needs to have meaning. It needs to have an impact and even consequences. - Make it consistent. If it is not consistent they cannot appreciate both up's and down's. - Let them control some of their own trades. Sim at first, but move them to a small cash account. For kids, you can make it tangible (more for teenagers). Rewards for certain percentage gains like clothes, ipod, movies, xbox games, etc. For wife it can be stuff a bit more extravagant, like hit 'xx%' gain and we'll add that new deck in the backyard you wanted, or a weekend get-a-way trip for family, etc etc. What do you guys think? Mike

I took the Christmas family gathering to get all of our Children and Adult GrandChildren to understanding how I was trading, the firms I use and offered to teach them. Two have started in earnest and are making a living off their new hobby. Tough to take them from steady employment to the life of a trader.

Big Mike 

I'd like to talk about the psychology of having/not having support from your wife (and kids) in your trading business. First, notice I used the word business. Trading is a business! If you run it any other way, it's just gambling. From students and friends that I've talked to, it seems many times "the wife and kids" have no appreciation for what you are doing. They don't support it or respect it. Examples would be constant interruptions throughout the day or nagging remarks in the bedroom, etc. Why do you think this happens? I think that unless you are a trader yourself, it is about impossible to fully respect the emotional roller-coaster trader's experience, the psychological impact, the stress, the preparation required, the concentration, all of it. So you cannot completely fault an outsider, even your wife or kids, for not being able to fully appreciate it. They can't, not until they are no longer an outsider! Needless to say, trying to succeed in trading is hard enough without problems of lack of support from your loved ones. I think there are a few angles to approach this from. One, if your family is not in a financially stable situation and you are "home all day playing on the computer" instead of out in the "real world looking for a job", then you can expect this is not a good situation and you have to understand that you are risking a lot for your own personal happiness. But two/second, if you are in a somewhat stable situation, then it is possible your loved ones still do not appreciate or possibly even condone trading because they feel it is just a toy/hobby or even gambling, a "no win" situation, etc. Assuming the second situation, one possible way to overcome this barrier is to involve your loved ones more. In fact, doing so will almost certainly dramatically improve your trading since most trading mistakes are due to psychological missteps, by thinking things through more carefully so you don't make mistakes when explaining them to others and look like a fool, you'll find that you're actually a much better trader for it. The first two to three years of your trading business is probably a losing proposition in terms of your bank statement. That's true of any business of any nature. It's also true most businesses fail within two years, just as most traders do. Your wife and kids need to understand that this is a business, and just like if you opened a restaurant, or a fitness club, a computer/electronics storefront, any of these things --- they are all risks and require support as well as "leaps of faith" in order to be successful. Just like you could hopefully turn to your wife and kids to support you in your new business venture of starting a "fitness club", and get them involved and make them feel like they are contributing, you can also do the same thing with trading! Most families and outsiders think trading is pure gambling and frown on it. They think you are a degenerate for trading and spending your life savings or not looking out for your family. I think there are two extremes here -- one, it is possible to treat trading like a gambling addiction in which case you don't know when to stop. But it's also possible to treat trading like any normal business. If you started a coffee shop and invested 50k of your own money, and 3 years later it failed, most likely your wife and parents and friends would not disown you. However, in trading, they just might. It's a stigma. Unless you are willing or capable of doing this on your own, the best way to combat this stigma is by involvement. Not just involvement for the sake of understanding of the complexities of trading by your loved ones, but involvement for the sake them better understanding the pleasure and joy it brings to your life. Most men would do anything for their wife and kids if they knew it would bring them joy and happiness, even at great financial cost. The same is true in reverse, your wife and kids need to give you some freedom and room to experience these things even at great financial cost. So what are some of the better ways to involve your wife and kids? Well, I hope to hear from you guys! But here are some of my suggestions (although I'm not currently married, and have no kids!) - Don't just make them watch. Give them something to do. - What they do needs to have meaning. It needs to have an impact and even consequences. - Make it consistent. If it is not consistent they cannot appreciate both up's and down's. - Let them control some of their own trades. Sim at first, but move them to a small cash account. For kids, you can make it tangible (more for teenagers). Rewards for certain percentage gains like clothes, ipod, movies, xbox games, etc. For wife it can be stuff a bit more extravagant, like hit 'xx%' gain and we'll add that new deck in the backyard you wanted, or a weekend get-a-way trip for family, etc etc. What do you guys think? Mike

I guess I am one of the lucky ones - my husband even went to trading courses with me, actually sat in class so he could be a part of the discuss when I talked about my day. He never took a trade in his life. Of course I fully supported him and ran his architectural office so we were a team.
Neotrader28

wolfpack 

I took the Christmas family gathering to get all of our Children and Adult GrandChildren to understanding how I was trading, the firms I use and offered to teach them. Two have started in earnest and are making a living off their new hobby. Tough to take them from steady employment to the life of a trader.

Started at Christmas and already making a living from trading? WOW

kevinkdog 

WOW

I saw that too...

Mike

Big Mike 

So what are some of the better ways to involve your wife and kids?

Very good question. I think that unless your very successful with your trading then your wife and kids are not going to be interested. At best I think deep down they pray for you to stop. Business or no business,
sad to say.

Big Mike 

Don't just make them watch. Give them something to do. - What they do needs to have meaning. It needs to have an impact and even consequences. - Make it consistent. If it is not consistent they cannot appreciate both up's and down's. - Let them control some of their own trades. Sim at first, but move them to a small cash account. For kids, you can make it tangible (more for teenagers). Rewards for certain percentage gains like clothes, ipod, movies, xbox games, etc. For wife it can be stuff a bit more extravagant, like hit 'xx%' gain and we'll add that new deck in the backyard you wanted, or a weekend get-a-way trip for family, etc etc.

With 14 years of trading now under my belt and having a much better knowledge of trading I wouldn't want to ask my love ones to do any of these suggestions, They would have to come to me and ask to get
involved.

Big Mike 

What do you guys think?

Big Mike, I think we are in it alone.

JMAL 

Big Mike, I think we are in it alone.

We are your family, @JMAL.

Big Mike 

We are your family, @JMAL.

Big smile, thanks Mike!

kevinkdog 

Started at Christmas and already making a living from trading? WOW

They, like me, are using the APEX accounts to allow them to use OPM without putting a lot of theirs at risk while learning the process. I have a system that trades 10-25 contracts for small 2-5 tick gains and then out. Rinse and repeat over and over again each hour of the day.

Our middle daughter was able to pass the eval on their 50k account within the first month and has had 2 months of taking $3k+ out each month... Doing great and her husband supported her by buying new high res monitors and a trading computer for New Years.. Oldest just passed her first eval last week.

Trying to ensure they set these up as a business to get all the desired tax breaks and pull some of their household expenses into business expenses