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Trading the new CME E-Micro's (E micro) MES, MNQ, MYM, M2K and other micros


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Trading the new CME E-Micro's (E micro) MES, MNQ, MYM, M2K and other micros

  #451 (permalink)
 
vmodus's Avatar
 vmodus 
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
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SunTrader View Post
If commissions make or break a strategy it's time to re-think the strategy.

Truer words were never spoken. I was advising someone who wanted to develop a system that took profits after 1 tick/point moves and trying to make him understand the futility. And that was without commission.

I have had dozens of systems that were great, until applying slippage and commission.

~vmodus

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  #452 (permalink)
WPython
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I am curios about the all in cost of MYM,MES,MNQ provided by Optimus Futures. How much did it cost for 1 RT?

Since it is an introducing broker for AMP, is the price similar to what is offered by AMP? With 1 RT 0.39?

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  #453 (permalink)
 
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 vmodus 
Somewhere, Delaware, USA
 
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WPython View Post
I am curios about the all in cost of MYM,MES,MNQ provided by Optimus Futures. How much did it cost for 1 RT?

Since it is an introducing broker for AMP, is the price similar to what is offered by AMP? With 1 RT 0.39?

I was on their site yesterday (I am not a client) and recall seeing pricing there for the micros. It will depend on your monthly volume, as with most brokers.

Commission + routing + NFA + Clearing = cost per side * 2 = RT cost. You may have to do the math.

~vmodus

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  #454 (permalink)
 
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 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
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COTtrader View Post
I assume some brokers would allow one to hedge the ES over against the new micro ES.

Ken

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  #455 (permalink)
 refine 
Edmonton Alberta Canada
 
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I have listened to the various reasons people have given for trading the Micros. At first pass they all seemed worth considering.

But....as I have looked into the viability of trading Micros I can't help but notice that the commission cost is on the verge of being absurd.

I would expect that commission costs would be slightly more just because it is a reduced size. Just like you expect to pay more on a volume basis for small single serving box of cheerios over multi kilogram bulk bag at your local grocery store. That is standard marketing.

But....Whoa! When the industry norm for ES commissions is around $5/rt.....how can they justify MES rt commission rates of up to 10X that amount?

I made my first MES trade the other day (to test out a strategy with some skin in the game...as they say).

I made 11 ticks....which was ok....

My statement came back with an all in commission of $5.24.....!?!

WTF?!?

Let me see......MES is 1/10 the size of the ES.....so that would be like paying an ES commission of over $52...!

So if I wanted to trade the MES regularly I would have to make at least 5 ticks on every trade just to cover commissions.

Guess I can scrap that scalping strategy I was thinking of trying out

With that in mind I can not figure out what the point of trading the MES would be.....other than insuring that your broker's kids can afford to get the best College education available.

All the hype around the MES when it came out suggested that it would be the "Best market innovation in years".

But, like they say, the devil is in the details.

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  #456 (permalink)
 
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 Daytrader999 
Ilsede, Germany
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refine View Post
But....Whoa! When the industry norm for ES commissions is around $5/rt.....how can they justify MES rt commission rates of up to 10X that amount?

I made my first MES trade the other day (to test out a strategy with some skin in the game...as they say).

I made 11 ticks....which was ok....

My statement came back with an all in commission of $5.24.....!?!

WTF?!?

Let me see......MES is 1/10 the size of the ES.....so that would be like paying an ES commission of over $52...!


Wow, that really surprises me, what brokerage do you use?


I trade Micros from time to time as well, and I pay only $0.96 RT commission with Ninja Trader Brokerage...

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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  #457 (permalink)
SunTrader
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Either shop around for a more competitive broker or change your strategy.

Using the old "dog ate my homework" excuse doesn't cut it trading. Markets don't care.

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  #458 (permalink)
 refine 
Edmonton Alberta Canada
 
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Daytrader999 View Post
Wow, that really surprises me, what brokerage do you use?


I trade Micros from time to time as well, and I pay only $0.96 RT commission with Ninja Trader Brokerage...


That to me is a fair commission price. You should be able to cover the commission cost with the first tick of profit.

Unfortunately, I can't use Ninja Brokerage because they don't accept Canadian clients

The obvious takeaway is that you need to shop around - do your due diligence.

The complicating factor is that commission rates for the MES are all over the place and a number of brokers go to great lengths to hide the true cost.

And....there are a number of posted rates that look really good up front but turn out to be classic "bait & switch" when you sign up.


Yeah....I get it....welcome to the real world ....

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  #459 (permalink)
 
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 Daytrader999 
Ilsede, Germany
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refine View Post
That to me is a fair commission price. You should be able to cover the commission cost with the first tick of profit.

Unfortunately, I can't use Ninja Brokerage because they don't accept Canadian clients

The obvious takeaway is that you need to shop around - do your due diligence.

The complicating factor is that commission rates for the MES are all over the place and a number of brokers go to great lengths to hide the true cost.

And....there are a number of posted rates that look really good up front but turn out to be classic "bait & switch" when you sign up.


Yeah....I get it....welcome to the real world ....


Yup, it's quite difficult to overview all these different kind of rates offered by brokerage firms.

I'm sure that my particular commission might be undercut by several firms, but I won't change brokerage only to save a few cents...

And perhaps it might be worth a try to touch base with @mattz of Optimus Futures, just in case you want to switch to a really good company.

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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  #460 (permalink)
 
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 FuturesTrader71 
 
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refine View Post
I have listened to the various reasons people have given for trading the Micros. At first pass they all seemed worth considering.

But....as I have looked into the viability of trading Micros I can't help but notice that the commission cost is on the verge of being absurd.

I would expect that commission costs would be slightly more just because it is a reduced size. Just like you expect to pay more on a volume basis for small single serving box of cheerios over multi kilogram bulk bag at your local grocery store. That is standard marketing.

But....Whoa! When the industry norm for ES commissions is around $5/rt.....how can they justify MES rt commission rates of up to 10X that amount?

I made my first MES trade the other day (to test out a strategy with some skin in the game...as they say).

I made 11 ticks....which was ok....

My statement came back with an all in commission of $5.24.....!?!

WTF?!?

Let me see......MES is 1/10 the size of the ES.....so that would be like paying an ES commission of over $52...!

So if I wanted to trade the MES regularly I would have to make at least 5 ticks on every trade just to cover commissions.

Guess I can scrap that scalping strategy I was thinking of trying out

With that in mind I can not figure out what the point of trading the MES would be.....other than insuring that your broker's kids can afford to get the best College education available.

All the hype around the MES when it came out suggested that it would be the "Best market innovation in years".

But, like they say, the devil is in the details.

Hi,

You don't have a good fee structure with your current broker/clearer. Look around, you can trade it for $0.98 per turn including Rithmic/CQG fees.

This has nothing to do with the micros. I lobbied for this product from back in 2012 and I believe it is the best thing to happen to futures traders in recent history.

Best of luck!

FT71

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