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Jigsaw Trading's Peter Davies - Ask Me Anything (AMA)


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Jigsaw Trading's Peter Davies - Ask Me Anything (AMA)

  #691 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
Posts: 285 since Aug 2013
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Thanks Received: 271

Hey Peter. A question. Is the NT addon for Jigsaw just as good as the standalone version?

Also, what is the best free instruction out there for Jigsaw. A real 'Jane see the ball' type of teaching that takes it one element at a time and builds on each part. My idea was to just find out the most basic part of DOM watching, watch that awhile, then add the next thing in the DOM, etc.

Thanks!


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  #692 (permalink)
 
chipwitch's Avatar
 chipwitch 
Nashville, TN
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader, Continuum Data
Trading: MES for now... baby steps
Posts: 322 since Feb 2022
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emini2000 View Post
Hey Peter. A question. Is the NT addon for Jigsaw just as good as the standalone version?

Also, what is the best free instruction out there for Jigsaw. A real 'Jane see the ball' type of teaching that takes it one element at a time and builds on each part. My idea was to just find out the most basic part of DOM watching, watch that awhile, then add the next thing in the DOM, etc.

Thanks!

They have got some good basic videos to train you on their site, but I think you have to purchase the software first to have it unlocked for you.

Basically, you start out just watching the inside bid and ask. Ignore everything else at first. They suggest some drills that you can do and claim that if you do them for an hour or two a day that in a few days or a week, you will have learned the lesson that each drill intends to teach you.

They have a no questions asked 14 day money back guarantee. I had some minor (but important to me) problems getting mine to work with NT. It worked 95% with NT. Because of the 5% that didn't work, I requested and received my money back... no questions asked. Peter has since said that he would personally help me set it up on my end... He seems confident he can get it to work 100% with NT. I will probably be taking him up on his offer next week as I have too much going on right now.

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  #693 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
Posts: 285 since Aug 2013
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chipwitch View Post
Basically, you start out just watching the inside bid and ask. Ignore everything else at first. They suggest some drills that you can do and claim that if you do them for an hour or two a day that in a few days or a week, you will have learned the lesson that each drill intends to teach you.

Thanks. That’s exactly the type of thing I’m looking for. If you wouldn’t mind coming back here and update me when you get it and see if the videos are like that that come with the basic purchase. I wouldn’t have access to the other videos other than the basic.

But there also may be a series of videos on YouTube that follow that step-by-step procedure if anyone is aware of that.

  #694 (permalink)
 
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 chipwitch 
Nashville, TN
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader, Continuum Data
Trading: MES for now... baby steps
Posts: 322 since Feb 2022
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matthew28 View Post
That's a $579 lifetime software license free, and one year's live trading free, another $500. Really, I would take it
As you are interested in order flow the Jigsaw DOM is a lot better than the Ninja DOM. I have done a screen share with Peter at some point, I can't remember why now but whatever the issue was, he sorted it out and he'll quickly fix the Snapshot problem for you.

It also easily solves your data analysis issue of wanting flat-to-flat trade results stats which you will get through Journalytix, unlike what you currently have with Ninja breaking up the incremental fills in to individual trades.

Do you know what software he uses to do the screen share? Will I need to install something? I may reach out to him today. NT just deleted all my charts in my workspace so it doesn't look like I'm trading today. If Pete is available, it might be a good day to take him up on his offer.

  #695 (permalink)
 iq200 
London, UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader, Tradestation
Broker: Kinetick, InteractiveBrokers
Trading: Equities, Futures
Posts: 407 since Jun 2010
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If look in the physical workspace directory, in the Documents\Ninjatrader8 folder you will find Ninjatrader stores workspace backups there in a folder. You should be able to restore the workspace that has corrupted.

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  #696 (permalink)
 
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 matthew28 
United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
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chipwitch View Post
Do you know what software he uses to do the screen share?

Sorry, I can't remember, it was quite a while ago.

You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
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  #697 (permalink)
 
chipwitch's Avatar
 chipwitch 
Nashville, TN
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader, Continuum Data
Trading: MES for now... baby steps
Posts: 322 since Feb 2022
Thanks Given: 230
Thanks Received: 631


iq200 View Post
If look in the physical workspace directory, in the Documents\Ninjatrader8 folder you will find Ninjatrader stores workspace backups there in a folder. You should be able to restore the workspace that has corrupted.

I'm aware. That's not the problem.

I think this is related to their Static DOM license. I get an error on all of them.

  #698 (permalink)
 SpeculatorSeth   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 780 since Apr 2016
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grodsky View Post
The differences in the pulling/stacking numbers between programs is an interesting one. It's puzzled me for a long time and I eventually got around to raising it with Jigsaw support last November but without much result. This was fair enough I felt as it really requires a detailed technical analysis between different vendors' products.

I don't use SC anymore but it always gave very different results to JS. Also Overcharts gives different numbers (all using Rithmic). The Denali SC feed seemed to give the same numbers as Rithmic.

So, my view is that it must be the timing, the frequency or other detail of how it's calculated that's causing the difference rather than the feed. Certainly JS gives few numbers away from the inside bid/offer in comparison.

Now I just go with JS and just one level. It certainly shows icebergs on the ES very well.

I would love some techically competent person to delve deeper.

What chipwitch was talking about is likely to be an issue with sorting out the right settings as Peter pointed out. You're bringing up a much more interesting issue which has nothing to do with the software, but rather how market data works.

The volume/order feed is separate from the market depth feed, and they don't always sync up perfectly. The different data providers also filter their data differently. So that can lead to small differences between feeds / software. When I was transitioning between brokers I was able to put CQG and Rithmic up next to each other. When you watch it frame by frame you'll find that the market depth updates in particular don't sync up perfectly. I've even gone as far as logging out every update in NinjaTrader to see how it all works.

So this could lead to a situation where in one feed the market depth update comes before the volume, and in the other feed the update comes after the volume. That small difference of a few milliseconds could change how your cumulative delta or current trades classifies the market orders. It could also change what your stacking/pulling columns show. MBO data would fix the problem because when the level 2 updates it does it by order, and thus tells you if the order was canceled or filled. It's not a problem that should ever factor in for a retail trader though as the difference is quite trivial.

Seems to me that the exchange / data providers could fix this by attaching exchange timestamps to every data event, but whatever. It's not worth the resources to change.

- SpeculatorSeth
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  #699 (permalink)
 grodsky 
shrewsbury uk
 
Experience: Intermediate
Frequency: Daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 9 since Aug 2012
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Yes, that all makes perfect sense. I also seem to remember SC claiming that cqg depth data was a poor snapshot in itself. When I used SC I found Denali and Rithmic very similar.

On some programs the side of CME trades is assessed using whether they traded at the bid/ask and others use the aggressor flag which must also introduce differences. I think JS uses the bid/ask approach on all feeds including Rithmic. I would assume this results in the miscategorisation of some trades due to the timing differences in the different feed elements you mention.

I do think that the JS pulling/stacking issue is the program itself in that it seems to update very little if at all away from the first one or two levels regardless of settings. I will be interested to see the outcome of the Peter Davies/Chipwitch intervention if her satisfaction is based on comparison with another program's results.

  #700 (permalink)
 
chipwitch's Avatar
 chipwitch 
Nashville, TN
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader, Continuum Data
Trading: MES for now... baby steps
Posts: 322 since Feb 2022
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grodsky View Post
Yes, that all makes perfect sense. I also seem to remember SC claiming that cqg depth data was a poor snapshot in itself. When I used SC I found Denali and Rithmic very similar.

On some programs the side of CME trades is assessed using whether they traded at the bid/ask and others use the aggressor flag which must also introduce differences. I think JS uses the bid/ask approach on all feeds including Rithmic. I would assume this results in the miscategorisation of some trades due to the timing differences in the different feed elements you mention.

I do think that the JS pulling/stacking issue is the program itself in that it seems to update very little if at all away from the first one or two levels regardless of settings. I will be interested to see the outcome of the Peter Davies/Chipwitch intervention if her satisfaction is based on comparison with another program's results.

I've reached out to @Jigsaw Trading to see if we can get it set up on my end. I'll let you know what happens when Peter gets back to me.

I will say this... when I was having the problem of some stack/pull values being blank (at a price), I went to youtube to see if I could see examples of JS in action. I found plenty videos showing the stacks and pulls 10 or so prices away from the spread... and no blank cells (except those outside the L2 zone) that I can recall.

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Last Updated on April 13, 2023


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