Itsjustamarket 

1. When open trader started it was about being transparent, you could link to your broker show your pnl then sell your "eduction". there was a guy on there James Meehan he is still on twitter, Jtrade or something. There is a good post about it here. OpenTrader.com | MBAGearhead Trading Journey

I remember open trader from a year or 2 back and as you say, it was essentially an online community where the site would connect to your broker and you could make your track record publicly available. You could setup a profile, chat with other traders, etc. I completely forgot about them until seeing this thread. What happened to that aspect of the site?

From what I can see the community / broker link portion doesn't exist anymore. Does anyone know what happened?

Itsjustamarket 

2. People that i know that actually make money BS aside use the most basic charts feel the flow and talk about people. NOT support, high volume node etc. 3. The only people i have ever seen in the public domain prove that they make money are don miller, this james guy and the NOBS guy. They all have a behavioural narrative and are more focused on the the flow of the mkt than technical BS.

I don't know how many people you know, but I hope you realize just how small a sample size it is, in the big picture. And since we all tend to congregate with those who share our own beliefs, and since you believe for some reason that measuring volume at price contains no value, then it's no surprise that you have a very limited scope of different things people do to make money.

What I had a good laugh about was that Don Miller (who I have never seen proof of profitability, would love to see it) certainly uses basic technical concepts like support and resistance, which conflicts with what you said before. And the "No BS" guy, who I think is great, uses volume at price heavily (have you not seen his DOM?). He may not talk about "high volume nodes," but that's just terminology. He uses it only a day-to-day basis, whereas some people also use it on a larger scale.

In my personal trading I use volume at price extensively, in a way not dissimilar to what OpenTrader seems to teach. But that is just "the map" and says nothing about momentum swings in a market, feeling who's in control, and all the things that actually contribute to a successful trade. I don't know if the OpenTrader educational material addresses these--but these things are best learned by immersing oneself in a market, and can't just be learned in a course, not anyone's.

So in the end, I think you and I may have a very similar approach, with the exception that I have an understanding of market psychology and trader positioning rooted in an understanding of volume that you cannot have, if you ignore volume at price. Just as I choose to ignore certain perspectives on markets that do not jive with me, so you too may choose to ignore those that do not jive with you. But unfortunately, because you misunderstand this particular perspective, you dismiss it as nonsense. But if you would be open minded and allow your beliefs to be challenged, you might find that you see something that is completely congruent with how you likely view markets already, and it might actually enhance your understanding. What approach you take to the markets is irrelevant to me, as I don't care one bit about your trading; but hopefully you see that it is silly to dismiss market generated information as nonsense simply because 'you don't know anyone who trades that way.'

Bankrobber 

It was opentrader that said they would post trading results months ago, so why haven't they?

Good question--maybe I will ask them and post their reply here.

Bankrobber 

Get a book on MP for $30, and stay clear of these guys... That my advice

I think it would definitely be a mistake for anyone to spend thousands of dollars on a training program without understanding the auction process first--so I agree, a good read of MoM coupled with real-time observation of this process would be the best start one could take. Plus, there is a LOT of free information out there already.

Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion. I wasn't aware of OpenTrader up till now. I tend to follow @josh's postings (among others), as he is a serious trader with thoughtful comments..

@jeffmum, I have read your earlier post (#9) and wonder if you could do a review on OpenTrader, based on your experience?

Itsjustamarket 

3. The only people i have ever seen in the public domain prove that they make money are don miller, this james guy and the NOBS guy. They all have a behavioural narrative and are more focused on the the flow of the mkt than technical BS.

Ha! Had to respond to your "don miller" comment. Yes, I believe he made money in 2008 but he hasn't made money since. I took his "course" - I can't recommend it. He's a scalper and never showed a profit during the course. He modified his "method" several times during the course based on very recent price action ("recency bias") and overall didn't impart much that couldn't be gleaned from reading free resources on the web. He's a well-meaning guy but he's going the road of educator-writer because he can't make money trading (that's my opinion). So while you are correct about Don method centering on reading the market's "flow" - it doesn't work for him excepting those extremely high volatility periods in 2008. Good luck chasing after his way of trading....

Have seen Ziad share some of his past performance via brokerage statement for 2 years and all I can say is Wow!! & am happy to be associated with him and his training's and am lucky to have found him as my trading mentor.

Surly 

Ha! Had to respond to your "don miller" comment. Yes, I believe he made money in 2008 but he hasn't made money since. I took his "course" - I can't recommend it. He's a scalper and never showed a profit during the course. He modified his "method" several times during the course based on very recent price action ("recency bias") and overall didn't impart much that couldn't be gleaned from reading free resources on the web. He's a well-meaning guy but he's going the road of educator-writer because he can't make money trading (that's my opinion). So while you are correct about Don method centering on reading the market's "flow" - it doesn't work for him excepting those extremely high volatility periods in 2008. Good luck chasing after his way of trading....

I had similar experience. He scalped 3-10 ticks on massive position size. The year ( i do not remember the year) he made

$1 million i calculated number of contracts he traded. it turn out to be 10 ticks or something like that.

I was desperate for some help , so took his so called Jelly Fish program from his first training class. He basically

recorded that session and was selling for $1400 or so for students who could not afford full fee of upcoming class.

That recording session is all i needed to know to move on.

paps 

Have seen Ziad share some of his past performance via brokerage statement for 2 years and all I can say is Wow!! & am happy to be associated with him and his training's and am lucky to have found him as my trading mentor.

Did anybody record the webinar? Did you make any screen shots? I'd really like to believe that those guys are for real but I want to see some proof.

Thanks

hi...no i don't have screen shots as don't want to get into copyright issues.

Anyways.... for me they are real...since i also have met them personally.

Thought i should post my views...& hence did.

In June 2009, Mr Masri wrote, what I considered one of the most profound posts about trading well that I have ever read. Based on that alone, it is a decent bet that this man understood the markets in a manner that pros do. And was able to leverage that observation into actionable plan.

The article is here.......

E-Mini Player: EMini S&P 500 Futures Trading Education and Analysis: Learning to Become a Successful Trader

I have followed his and Awais' public offerings since then, and was in EminiPlayer's live room a while aback for about a month or so (and was using his levels, and his action plans). I watched him launch Open Trader and the pro training program for @USD4000 (which is today at 50% discount a for special). I sat through the webinar yesterday.

Mr Masri talked about taking prices at "good" levels without confirmation, and about edges. All good talk for a new trader learning the ropes. His pro training program, like any other, is about learning to trade with discipline and with relentless application of an unsophisticated methodology. That is his edge. His edge is mental, in his knowledge that he can out wait retail traders, trust his levels and allow his method to take risk off the table (sort of like Private Banker's core-satellite trade management).

Unfortunately, I do not agree that one has to pay 4000USD or 2000USD for learning to trade with discipline. If discipline and trading at the market's edges is the core of your approach, that is a process that is free. I have no doubt some people who have have not cut their teeth, blown a few accounts, learn the hard way about the sanctity of preserving capital - for those people, this is a program that may be worth enrolling in.

I always ask myself about the value of a program, or tuition or training being worth it - if I could recommend if to my brother, or sister, or son or daughter. I would not, unless, the program can prove that the edge can indeed be robustly transferred to others (and the proof must be shown in a transparent manner, not just for the trader that devised it but of the students he is teaching). Most educators hide behind the CFTC disclaimers to escape accountability. it is a cloak and an escape hatch. The industry hides facts because it can. The retail trade and his money are fodder. You must ask yourself - what if his skill is not transferable, what then?

The edge must be immediately apparent, substantial, tangible, repeatable and transferable. Other wise, you must cast upon it with extreme prejudice.