David,

I think you need to answer those questions before placing the trade. You need to know your method, and that means knowing what your likely to see in terms of targets or result. I mean you can't set a static target, you have to move with the market, use price action, etc -- but, you need statistics to tell you in general how far apart target 1 and target 2 might be, or how likely you are to get target 2, "at what cost" to leave target 2 alone, etc etc. These are all important parts of recording the method and examining it over a large sample size.

Mike

Big Mike 

David, I think you need to answer those questions before placing the trade. You need to know your method, and that means knowing what your likely to see in terms of targets or result. I mean you can't set a static target, you have to move with the market, use price action, etc -- but, you need statistics to tell you in general how far apart target 1 and target 2 might be, or how likely you are to get target 2, "at what cost" to leave target 2 alone, etc etc. These are all important parts of recording the method and examining it over a large sample size. Mike

Mike,

I agree with you and I think I can answer that for target number 1, but it think the target will depend on what time frame the set up occurs in. The lower the time frame the less and the higher the time frame the first target can be more. As far as target 2 goes, how can we ever really know? Don't days vary and we can never really know what we can get out of the market. For example, my first trade hit target 1 and then had a fairly large pullback of over 20 tics, so I was stopped out on the second contract. Many of the other setups that occurred after that had shallower pullbacks. We (I) don't know how that will play out. Should I?

I am recording my results in a spread sheet which allows for 3 targets. I hope to see some sort of pattern over time. On the other hand, I'm considering what Rassi said and that is all out at one target and then wait for the next opportunity.

D

rassi 

David, dont sweat on the exits, in these summer markets best off just all in all out to smaller targets imho. Glad to see its working out for you! wtg

Rassi,

thanks for the comments, I appreciate it.

It's tough to decide on all out or scale out. If I go all out and miss a move and if I scale and get stopped I wished I had exited all at one point. I realize I need to get over that missing a move thing and be satisfied with what I can get. In reality, a couple of first target trades a day would more than make my day.

d

Yes, days vary. But, lets say you take 3 to 4 trades a day over the period of 3 months, that's approximately 200 trades, and a good starting point to be able to look at your trading spreadsheet and make some informed decisions.

One of the things on my spreadsheet is "Benchmark", it measures the 100% best-case scenario possible during that trade. It is impossible to achieve, unless I got out at the best possible tick. The idea is to measure realized exit efficiency against this benchmark, and work towards improving it. I think the same method would work for your 'target 2'. One trade doesn't matter. Ten trades don't really matter. You need to think in terms of bigger, long-term probabilities, so you make decisions after analyzing hundreds of trades and then make the best decision you can.

It will also depend on your objectives. I've stated many times that I prefer to trade 3 targets, and the third target is usually 'out there' a bit on CL -- 50-100 ticks. So lets say that four out of five times my third target performs no better than breakeven, but one out of five times I get a big winner, and it also lets me stop trading for the day. Whether or not it is statistically stupid, I prefer this method because trading is not 100% statistics, but a combination which also includes psychology. So your own objectives may be different than mine.

Mike

Big Mike 

Yes, days vary. But, lets say you take 3 to 4 trades a day over the period of 3 months, that's approximately 200 trades, and a good starting point to be able to look at your trading spreadsheet and make some informed decisions. One of the things on my spreadsheet is "Benchmark", it measures the 100% best-case scenario possible during that trade. It is impossible to achieve, unless I got out at the best possible tick. The idea is to measure realized exit efficiency against this benchmark, and work towards improving it. I think the same method would work for your 'target 2'. One trade doesn't matter. Ten trades don't really matter. You need to think in terms of bigger, long-term probabilities, so you make decisions after analyzing hundreds of trades and then make the best decision you can. It will also depend on your objectives. I've stated many times that I prefer to trade 3 targets, and the third target is usually 'out there' a bit on CL -- 50-100 ticks. So lets say that four out of five times my third target performs no better than breakeven, but one out of five times I get a big winner, and it also lets me stop trading for the day. Whether or not it is statistically stupid, I prefer this method because trading is not 100% statistics, but a combination which also includes psychology. So your own objectives may be different than mine. Mike

All the above posts are worth while and make sense but my point was, recognize the conditions, its summer, ok it might go to the final target 'eventually' but it might take a while to get there. I'm not saying change the way your scaling out all together I for one have not, but while its summer I'm happy to take what i can get during the low vol times. When thing pick up again its normal service resumed.

fiki 

great tradingplan. but i didn´t get the trigger. i have worked a lot with my triggers and entries. for instance my trigger is the close of the range chart bar i trade of. the great thing with the rangebar is that i know where it will close. then i enter with a stop order or a stop limit order -1. the god thing with the stop order is that i´m guarantied the poisition the bad is that i give up a tick since the next range bar opens 1 tick above. this gives me less profit and bigger SL. and that tick adds up if you do the math. using -1 gives me the right price but i´m not guarantied the position. sometimes if orderflow is strong i try to frontrun the close and under some conditions i enter with limit the next bar betting on a pullback to the signalbar´s vpoc. the point here is i have it in my plan so when everything lines up i know what to do. mostly i use the -1 stop. less stress... so what is your trigger and how do you enter (limit, market...)?

Hi, Fiki,

Thanks for sharing the interesting order placing strategy. What trading platform do you use to allow you place a stop limit order -1? By the way, does the order mean placing the limit order at the range bar closing price when the next bar opens? Thanks,

Today was a fair day. I should have taken the fine advice I was given last week and take quicker profits or know where my target is. In my mind I felt I knew the area I was targeting, but it can take time to achieve it. I had nice trades, but gave back too much on a number of them. I think I went into the day with a bias and that may have affected my willingness to exit the trades. The frustrating part is that I was correct, but the bigger move came at the end of the day.

I broke a rule of only 4 trades a day and did 5. I was okay with it even though it is a rule break and I wasn't in the red when I did it. Not sure if that matters, but really need to stick to the rules.

Grades:
Trade management D
Psychology (feeling fear, greed, anxiety etc) B
Money management A
Following plan C
Overall B

What else??


I'm trying to really control risk, so only traded one contract early on. I feel as though I prefer an all in approach and the scale out 2/3 at T1 and then manage the last part, or scale out in thirds. I'm also finding that I may be a scalper at heart in terms of time. I prefer trades that don't last too long, but patience can pay off.


David

David,

I think that "trying to control risk" and "one contract" and "early on", etc etc --- this basically means your focus is on seeing if you can follow your rules, and if yes, are you profitable yes/no. Nothing else matters. Whether you made $1 or $10,000 shouldn't matter, it seems like all the energy should simply be on executing the method you have laid out, and disregard the amount of profit.

Mike

Today I didn't get up in time for the morning. Had trouble sleeping so I slept in.

I did a couple things wrong today. First, was doing other things while trading. Big mistake and don't do it. Second, during the time period i wasn't supposed to.

What I did well today was manage trades better. The bad trades I cut lose very quickly, so even though they were losers they were minimal. According to Ninja I was 50% profitable and still came out on top.

Grades:

Following rules: F It is a harsh grade, but it is an important area that needs to be maintained.
Managed Trades: B
Psychology: C+ This could be a B, but I'm being hard on myself. I think I kept my cool for the most part, but I was getting a little frustrated
Focus: F doing other things while trying to trade is a bad idea.
Overall grade: D. this is representative of my actions and not my profitability. And my actions were poor today.

David

Two trades today. Got a late start again, but that's okay.

For the most part I'm happy with my performance. I was patient and waited for the trade, but I have to tell you it is difficult to wait for it. It obviously is the right thing to do, but it can be tough. I'm still not happy with trade management. I think, I mean I know I let the loss of profit get in the way. I set my target and then when price pulls back I worry i am going to miss out, so i bring my target in. I'm okay with taking a relatively quick first target based on my plan, but I have a hard time waiting on the second target which was hit. My plan does not state a particular amount, but more on price coming to a level. I need to improve that.

The first trade was basically the same trade as number 2. I was early to the party so I exited with +1 tic. Second entry was better. First target hit, but I did modify based on a swing high. Second target i moved down.


David

Grades:

Patience: B
Psychology: B
Trade Management: C+
Follow rules: B+
Overall: C+