@wldman,
i'm sure you got it down,no worries.


@DT.
Well done and nicely traded.Like the charts.


rgds
switchtrader

I presume you refer to trading other people's stops AKA pockets of liquidity.

I find exploiting stops to be a hit and miss affair to be honest with a few exceptions.

Every buy is also a sell. So stops will be either side of the market at any time. If you watch the book for signs of somebody flipping, then it does tip your hand to a stop run but on the ES, that is often just a 6 tick opportunity.

In the trade above, there were stops above 1349.75 - the people that shorted from that point. Of course, there were also stops building below the point I got in. Swings and roundabouts. Stops are everywhere.

There are times though when there will be a cascade of stops, there are other times when stops will build up....

For example...



You can see that the market ground upwards but in this case, stops below the swings @ 2,4,6,8 are in a cascade, as you take out 8 and hit stops, that will take you into 6, then 4, then 2.

I think these opportunities are good but for stuff at high of day/low of day - I don't trade those stop runs because there's too many other people playing there. Breakout traders, reversal traders, people running stops.

I prefer to engage in less crowded spaces if possible.

Would be interested to see how you play them.

DionysusToast 

Right now, I would say that on the ES, 1338 us cheap and 1363 is expensive. Or to put it another way, I think buyers will step in and become dominant at 1338 or thereabouts and I think sellers will step in and become dominant at 1363. Right now pre-market we are at 1347.

Sellers did indeed become dominant when price became too high.

Same thing would happen if this were an auction for oranges/cars/houses/sunglasses.

There is no magic to doing this & you still need to work an entry and manage the trade. You don't need a lot of fancy indicators. You don't need to try to sell the high either, you can wait for price to break down, tell yourself "OK - expectations appear to be playing out" and then get in at a sweeter spot.



BTW - this is not an attempt to derail the thread/show off. Just an example of 'cheap'/'expensive'.

I think the OP is alluding to gunning stops. It's all part of the same thing. Getting a handle on your fellow man and how he's going to react in certain scenarios. Seeing the market as people trading and not indicators buzzing about.

Quoting 

BTW - this is not an attempt to derail the thread/show off. Just an example of 'cheap'/'expensive'.

No worries DT.
I don't feel at all that you've taken the thread over,in fact i would rather you do so.
Continuation of the thread benefits me in no way.
My last post was to be my final,but i wanted to reply to your posts before signing this one out.

With regards cheap or expensive i think we will have to agree to disagree.No problems.

To illustrate my point nonetheless.:
If you look at the attached chart,what are you going to tell the buyers above 1276?Are you going to tell them it's OK to buy because its on support and therefore cheap?
It was a hell of a lot cheaper a little while later.That doesn't help them though,does it.

Quoting 

I think the OP is alluding to gunning stops.

Yes,in part.chasing and leaning.
That won't help you though on its own.
Like you have mentioned every trader on the planet is aware of this,the 'stop hunt' thing is sprayed all over the net.

Quoting 

I find exploiting stops to be a hit and miss affair to be honest with a few exceptions.

You would,because your not updating your book.If you updated your book not only wouldn't you be hit and miss,you would understand with high probability which pocket where going to next and the approximate size of pockets.
The next problem is creating an accurate book and understanding how to trade it,this is where most fail.They have limited themselves to knowing about stops but not getting to the next level.

If you check your chart again of the ES,the red box was the 'money' selling it down.Numerous times the market gave tell tales alerting EVERYONE that the ONLY way it was going was DOWN.
Now some traders are going to tell me i'm crazy because i'm selling into support.Well,i'm telling them that all the money was underneath,and full of gratitude,i say:"Thank you".

Happy trading and all the best.
Enjoy your weekend.

rgds
switchtrader

switchtrading 

If what i say frustrates you because you don't understand,then i apologise for that. switchtrader

If you are losing any sleep over this, you can rest easy, sir....

The only frustrating thing is that what could have been an interesting discussion stopped before it took off.

BTW - I noticed GOMI watching this...

The CD on there is yours, I just added a few lines to color when delta and price do different things....

Great tool.

bump

c'mon back riddler. You never shared your methodology. We were just getting started....