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Price action chart lessons by Mack's PATS Trading (priceactiontradingsystem.com)


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Price action chart lessons by Mack's PATS Trading (priceactiontradingsystem.com)

 
 erwinbeckers   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 29 since Aug 2018
Thanks Given: 10
Thanks Received: 32


RocketScientist View Post
I have noticed that you sell an automated strategy of PATS on your website and was wondering if you'd like to share with us some trade statistics from that. Thank you very much.

Hey.. well we're not selling it yet, its more of a teaser of what is to come.
At the moment we're still fine-tuning it.
Erwin

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tturner86's Avatar
 tturner86 
Portland, Oregon
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: GBU-39
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erwinbeckers View Post
Hey.. well we're not selling it yet, its more of a teaser of what is to come.
At the moment we're still fine-tuning it.
Erwin

Are you a vendor? If so you are in violation of our vendor policy by not signing up as vendor.

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal
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 erwinbeckers   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 29 since Aug 2018
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tturner86 View Post
Are you a vendor? If so you are in violation of our vendor policy by not signing up as vendor.

Yes, I'm a vendor , but I'm not a registered vendor on futures.io

But I'm not violating anything
- I did NOT promote anything
- I did NOT put any links to my website on futures.io
- I did NOT mention my website or products
- I did NOT advertise anything

Someone else did mention a video of mine on youtube
The only thing I did was that I replied to their message and told them that if someone has questions about it then they can contact me, that's it.
Erwin

 
 
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 AlexSobol 
Sumy, Ukraine
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Posts: 59 since Apr 2019
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After 1.5 years of learning only this style I gave up in November 2020.
I spent at least 2000 hours watching charts, drawing lines, testing all those setups and watching his videos.
And even after all that I found that all I do when SIM trade is question myself is this line drawn right, maybe I should change it, does it fits here. I took trade here and It didn't work why? Oh because it's too close to S/R. You literally can doubt everything. It doesn't matter that trade was loser or winner.
Too much thinking, too much decisions. It leads to decision fatigue when I can do nothing. It's not a psychological problem, I really tried to help myself with meditation, journaling my thoughts, reactions like Brett Steenbarger recommends to do. The problem is too much discretionary.

Maybe if you do this for 20+ like Mack or Al Brooks you can success. Well, good luck with that.

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Losch1
Aripeka, Florida
 
Posts: 5 since Jan 2021
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Hello, I used the search bar but didn't see much insight into what I was looking for.

I bought mack' price action manual a week ago. Sense then I've read it multiple times and even filled half a note book with notes.

But what I'm still struggling with is counting legs REAL TIME to look for second entries.

Some days I feel like I have it and in demo catch 2-3 good trades.

Other days its like I can't read them at all and miss every trade.

Is it possible for someone to explain counting legs perhaps in their own definition?

Maybe I'd understand it better from someone else?

Thank you so much.

Sorry for the long question.

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

 
 jakedarby 
San Antonio TX/US
 
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Platform: SC,Tastyworks
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trendisyourfriend View Post
I know it has been asked a long time ago but i found these indicators by accident while looking for something else on YT:

A) Official site of the Two Legged Pullback Indicator
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1KcKgrn6yigURbvNj7MS1w[/yt]
---
B) Trade Devils Price Action Indicator for NinjaTrader 8


The guy at A) trades lives in front of people streaming from YT. The other indicator seems more polished but have not tested any of these products but like what they did with it.

Good luck


I don't know about Trade Devils, but the first indicator seems useful if you wait for the right signal bar.

 
 travelinman 
Chester Springs, PA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: ES, 6E, CL
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Losch1 View Post
Hello, I used the search bar but didn't see much insight into what I was looking for.

I bought mack' price action manual a week ago. Sense then I've read it multiple times and even filled half a note book with notes.

But what I'm still struggling with is counting legs REAL TIME to look for second entries.

Some days I feel like I have it and in demo catch 2-3 good trades.

Other days its like I can't read them at all and miss every trade.

Is it possible for someone to explain counting legs perhaps in their own definition?

Maybe I'd understand it better from someone else?

Thank you so much.

Sorry for the long question.

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

Have you gone through all the videos on Mack's site with a one to three pages of notes on each subject (not the YouTube channel videos)? There are around 60 videos. If you are just reading the Manual and have not watched all of the videos and read all the articles you are missing out on a ton of great information. I believe you have to be a member of PATs to get access to the videos, not sure if you get that if you just buy the Manual. I believe the membership is around $100 a year. Some of the videos - multiple Failed 2nd Entry videos, Congestion, trading ranges, Traps, Breakout pullback trades, etc.

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 natan1967 
Ramat Gan
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Trading: Emini ES
Posts: 18 since Jun 2020
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ZENDINA View Post
Thank you for sharing your insights. I 100% agree that combining the PATS system with the Jigsaw order flow tools is a very solid approach.

Hi guys, not sure how old this post but I'll add my 2 cents here anyway lol

Iv been trading the PATS system for about 6 months now, it is a solid great way of trading however I've always had problem with Mac's RR.

Iv been doing OK during that period of time but always felt there must be away to reduce the risk which recently has become 4 points on average emini trade.

Few weeks ago I've discovered order flow and the jigsaw tool and was wondering if there is away to combine both so I can fine tune my entire and hopefully be able to enter with the DOM and by that way use my stops from the Dom vs just placing them below the low if the signal bar (long)

So, here's what I think: it is possible and there's allot if logic behind such an approach however since the eminis are so fast I still have troubles reading the Dom during action. The damn thing can be really fast at a time.

I base my decision of the 2000t chart (2nd entry and traps) using the jigsaw tools for more confirmation (recon T&S, Vista heat map etc). I'm still learning. I'm sure after awhile it will become a second nature, I'm not there yet though...

How's it going for you guys?

 
 erwinbeckers   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 29 since Aug 2018
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natan1967 View Post
it is a solid great way of trading however I've always had problems with Mac's RR.?

That is exactly the problem with this strategy. It has a variable stop-loss and a fixed (4-tick) target
The stop loss is variable since (according to Mack) it always goes 1 tick below/above the signal bar,
For the target, however, Mack stated multiple times he always sticks to a fixed 4-tick target no matter what.
The problem here is that your stop loss will get bigger if volatility picks up. Especially in today's extremely volatile markets, we see that this strategy requires huge stop losses.
So stop-loss gets bigger, while your take profit target sticks to 4 ticks.
Sure you can trade multiple contracts and have a scalp + runner but these occasional runners will not offset the numerous losing scalps

Another idea I hear a lot is to use a smaller position size. So in extreme volatility, you trade fewer contracts or go to the micro contracts. While it's true that you will lose less when you have a smaller position size, it does not change your win rate or risk/reward. Meaning. you are still vulnerable to the variable risk (stop loss) and fixed target


Note I'm not complaining about the inverse risk/reward ratio of this strategy. An inverse risk/reward ratio means you risk more than you potentially can win.
This might seem weird, but all scalping strategies have these inverse risk/reward ratios.
As long as you have a high win rate % this is fine and you will still make money

For example. Let's say your scalping strategy has a win rate of 75%, this means that to break even your risk-reward ratio should never be worse than RR 3:1 (risk 3 to win 1)
If however your risk (stop loss) is variable like with PATS and your first target is fixed then you can imagine what's gonna happen
We assume your win rate will stay the same (75%) I think this is reasonable since you won't suddenly win or lose more when volatility changes with this strategy

So your risk (stop loss) is variable and increases due to volatility, the result is that your risk/reward will get worse (perhaps RR 4:1 or RR 5:1 or even worse)
And when your risk/reward becomes worse than 3:1 then you will start to lose more money than you win. (provided you still have a 75% winrate)
To fix this.. either your win rate should go up (which I guess is very hard to do) or your risk/reward needs to improve
So to fix PATS you should have either a fixed stop loss or a fixed or minimum RR which you calculate depending on your win rate

Erwin

 
 natan1967 
Ramat Gan
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Trading: Emini ES
Posts: 18 since Jun 2020
Thanks Given: 0
Thanks Received: 26



erwinbeckers View Post
That is exactly the problem with this strategy. It has a variable stop-loss and a fixed (4-tick) target
The stop loss is variable since (according to Mack) it always goes 1 tick below/above the signal bar,
For the target, however, Mack stated multiple times he always sticks to a fixed 4-tick target no matter what.
The problem here is that your stop loss will get bigger if volatility picks up. Especially in today's extremely volatile markets, we that this strategy requires huge stop losses.
So stop-loss gets bigger, while your take profit target sticks to 4 ticks.
Sure you can trade multiple contracts and have a scalp + runner but these occasional runners will not offset the numerous losing scalps

Another idea I hear a lot is to use a smaller position size. So in extreme volatility, you trade fewer contracts or go to the micro contracts. While it's true that you will lose less when you have a smaller position size, it does not change your win rate or risk/reward. Meaning. you are still vulnerable to the variable risk (stop loss) and fixed target


Note I'm not complaining about the inverse risk/reward ratio of this strategy. An inverse risk/reward ratio means you risk more than you potentially can win.
This might seem weird, but all scalping strategies have these inverse risk/reward ratios.
As long as you have a high win rate % this is fine and you will still make money

For example. Let's say your scalping strategy has a win rate of 75%, this means that to break even your risk-reward ratio should never be worse than RR 3:1 (risk 3 to win 1)
If however your risk (stop loss) is variable like with PATS and your first target is fixed then you can imagine what's gonna happen
We assume your win rate will stay the same (75%) I think this is reasonable since you won't suddenly win or lose more when volatility changes with this strategy

Now your risk (stop loss) is variable and increases due to volatility then your risk/reward will get worse (perhaps RR 4:1 or RR 5:1 or even worse) if your win rate stays the same
So If your win rate is then still 75% but now your risk/reward becomes worse than 3:1 then you will be losing more than you win.
To fix this.. either your win rate should go up (which I guess is very hard to do) or your risk/reward needs to improve
So to 'fix parts you should have either a fixed stop loss or a fixed or minimum RR which you calculate depending on your winrate

Erwin

Fully agree Erwin.

I trade the PATS way for 6 months now and I've asked Mac why hasn't he change the 4t target during crazy market time like we have now and the answer was "because it's working"

ES now rarely gives u 2 points stop loss and the reality of the things is that I've noticed exactly what u mentioned. I must win 85% of the time.

Easier said then done. I can't do that. Not many traders can.

I'm moving from the ES to the treasuries and using jigsaw platform to scalp there. Catching moves in the ZN for example is at least possible and the crazy behavior of the ES is not that frequent there.

Note, I've also tried going for 10 ticks on the ES using Mac's style. Needless to say win rate dropped dramatically lol

Catch 22 here

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Last Updated on January 13, 2024


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