faithdefender 

We are working on our second month with Viper Trading systems. Thus, we just had to respond to this quote above since we are talking about constructive criticism. We have read almost the entire thread. Sadly, after the fact. So far the organization has been a trial. An expensive headache. Almost 250 dollars a month. The indicators for the NT8 are freezing up the charts. For the entire time we have subscribed. They continue to tell us the NT8 indicators will be fixed. They are aware of the problem. It begs the question; how long has this been going on? How long will this last? Did it just start when we subscribed? We don't think so. We are told just use the very minimum indicator until they get that fixed. In the meantime, they want that we should download and use NT7 if we want to be able to use the Object Trader. But everything we have is on NT8 including the data feed. Putting that aside, when you have a Vendor and you have a customer, you generally come to an agreement when you buy their product. An agreement based upon INTEGRITY, ethics and mutual respect. When you say "It is a free economy, supply and demand, and as long as you have this you have companies offering their services and knowhow and you have people who are prepared to pay for this service." That is fine to say in a perfect world, but that should not include those who sell a questionable product. Based upon your logic, it is perfectly ok to sell "lemons" to others because there is demand? At what point does bad business enter the conversation? Do you not think they should have advised us about the pre-existing problem with NT8? It is like pulling teeth to get them to respond in the webinar. I had to ask three times on this date "when will the changes be made for NT8?" Of course, they may not have seen my question. But this is not the first time I have had questions ignored. Yet I hear them constantly answering other's questions if it is regarding making money. Secondly, there is hardly any training to understand how to use the indicators. The training generally consists of watching videos of webinars we attended. And I wont say that is a bad thing. However, we have learned more about getting funded than we have learning how to use their indicators on a 4 Range chart. We dont need to get funded. We need to learn how this works. But after 2 months my husband is still not confident as to when to enter a trade. We think the Object Trader is a wonderful tool. But is a separate tool from the indicators. A tool that allows one to create a box or a trendline trade, automatically. (Something Ninja Trader should purchase) But it will not work at this time b/c we have NT8. If we add the "Wedge" it will not respond. And as mentioned above the Lightning" feature is great. If it worked for us! Again, something included in the subscription, but unavailable at this time. It is very upsetting to hear them say "box that in" but you cannot b/c it won't work at the time. Are they making money? They may or may not be. But the point is, we are not because the indicators will not respond at the moment. An issue that challenges their business ethic and therefore must be questioned so others can be made aware I suppose we had some grace the first month to allow them time to get things fixed. (When all is said and done, they seem to be very nice people.) The second month is on us. But, the third month will be egg on our face. My husband has chronic Lyme Disease, and we just want to trade Futures in order to help pay toward the medical bills. I am always looking for something simple to make his life easier. And with it comes risks from Vendors who lack certain business criteria, we are prepared to take the risk, but not without warning others when things go South. A wife's two cents. thank you for listening.

As a subscriber to VIPER TRADING SYSTEMS since Thanksgiving last year, I too was frustrated with the NT8 issues. It was unusable... BUT NOT NOW!

NT8 "scripts", as Gary calls them, have been reworked totally now. They are flawless and FAST FAST FAST. They had to use a new programmer who is excellent on NT8 code. He has leaned down the code and improved Lightning and the Power Meter. That was the drag. Object Trader works perfectly now in NT8. The Wedge tool works fine now also. And nobody has a trading console like this... I mean nobody that I know of. It if is out there I don't know where.

You should give Gary a call on the tech support number and ask for a renewed trial based on past frustrations. You will now fall in love with the NT8 Object Trader.

In fairness to VIPER, they always did say NT7 worked fine and encouraged people to use it instead, when the NT8 issues were going on. I did so even though I don't like NT7. It worked flawlessly. The lack of response to your questions is likely that they had nothing new to tell you. They ran into a dead end with the original programmer. It was only as Gary found the new one that things took off and it all got fixed!

These guys are not hucksters. They understand market structure and will teach you how to trade with their specific methods and tools. They regularly talk about how to get a "funded account" with Lee-Loo, APEX, UTrade, TOP STEP, etc... and will coach you along as to how to pass the tests and get into a real account. Gary will also show you how to keep your profits along the way to avoid draw downs. Their claims that many of those who trade with them have done so and are currently trading that way are very believable.

I've tried many things over the years. You couldn't pay me what ACE TRADES charges to go back into that circus. He does not trade, and regularly exaggerates his winners, ignores lots of small stop outs, etc... Bad experience for me. The guy is an arrogant annoyance. I would not waste my time if he gave me a totally free pass.

But VIPER TRADING SYSTEMS is different. These guys trade. Gary shows you a daily account Profit from time to time on one of his funded accounts. Gary shows you how to read the swings and predict with much accuracy where the pull backs will go so you can get in at optimal entries. Study his videos on "Look left to trade the right" and lightning 1-4. Watch and practice on replay. Get it down. Go over and over the video where he teaches how to use lightning 3, 2 & 1. I believe if you stick to it the lights will come on and your husband will gain confidence about entries and how to milk the runners out for big gains.

I have no vested interest in these guys. I am just a very thankful trader who has been helped along the way to real Futures trading by these guys. I don't lose significantly, rather win, when I do as they teach. It's only when I revert back to old destructive habits that I lose significantly. and that is no one's fault but my own. I don't mind paying a monthly fee for a great experience that brings me profits and makes trading less stressful. They do regular webinars and have a huge video library to review to keep you learning and sharp on what to do. these techniques work in the Globex session as well as the day session. I believe my Roth IRA will be very happy by year's end.

By the way, they regularly implement improvements to their software but the subscription stays the same cost in my experience.

Blessings in Christ Jesus, Chuck T

Thanks Chuck for the response and the admonition.

My wife is not happy, but I am still trying the Viper. I think she was more upset about the response made above than the Viper system itself. I agree they have come along since I have started the subscription. They now have object trader working more on NT8 than when i started, I like Gary! I think he is very down to earth. I am not a big fan of the other guy, but thats ok. My wife says he is rude. I think it is wrong he expects you to learn some silly trading terms. "Two bones on a 3 lot yo" is not my language. My other problem with him is he assumes everyone should be following along after the second month. At least I felt that way after the other night of training. Gary is a bit more approachable. I am just not getting it yet and I have not made a dime. Dont misunderstand. That does not mean it does not work. They seem to be making money everyday. Nevertheless, I am hanging in there and trying to understand what it is they do. My wife is also correct about the training. I look forward to Saturdays because I am awake. But they are in and out fast! The weeknight schedule is not easy for some of us old folk since it is Eastern time where we live and thats when they start. So I only get maybe a half hour due to fatigue. I appreciate you bringing up the trading account opportunities. But again, that does not help us if we do not understand their system.

Faithdefender, I want to encourage you in this endeavor you have undertaken.

Do not let your eye be taken off the prize. Discouragement can make us sluggish and hopeless. We must shake it off and keep looking at the goal while we press on. The prize is worth your time and effort. You will not learn this overnight or without a significant investment of time and effort. But once learned it will pay forever.

Make use of the live webinars to ask a few questions. But mainly learn from the recordings. Download them. Get VLC Player to replay the downloads and play them at a speed that helps you focus. That may be 1.5 X or 2.0 X to keep your mind focused. When you hit an area that you need to learn, pause. back up. slow it down. Concentrate and go over what Gary says as you look at what he is doing. Do it until it is real to you. You can learn this. You can watch downloaded videos any time you please. Do so when you are fresh and alert. Do not allow yourself to feel overwhelmed. Just listen over and over as you soak in what Gary teaches. He has several layers of things he uses. They are all relatively simple when viewed individually. It is the confluence of them all that seems overwhelming. Focus on a particular thing until you understand it. Then move to the next things. The main foundation is lightning 3 swings. Learn them well.

In the members area archive, look for videos about "Drawing on your charts" and "Using Lightning" and "Using Trendlines to enter and exit". If Charles' lingo bugs you, just use videos by Gary. I agree that some of Charles' terms are silly. I just tune them out myself and try to learn from his strengths. He is a very good trend trader and regularly makes big bucks on ES by riding runners for 20 or 30 points. But his loose stop approach is not really what we need to do now. Gary's "take profits" approach is most likely to help you get some confidence. It is very discouraging to be up 10 points and then give half back on a deep pull back. Use the trend lines Gary teaches to secure profits and reenter after the pull back reverses into the trend continuation. If you do this you can get more than 100% of the move from start to finish.

Another suggestion: Use the "alerts" on your chart to focus on a particular trade set up. They do not indicate a set up, just alert you to a potential set up. So focus when they flash. DO NOT TURN THEM ALL ON AT ONCE! Use them discriminately. Learn the Mid-band and Phantom trade set ups well. Especially the Phantoms have huge potential for exceptionally profitable runners. Don't get greedy. Take one off at 10 or 12 ticks and let the other contract run. Practice using the trail stop. Try using the Stealth plus 3-5 ticks to milk out a good long run on a trend.

Learn to use the bar close feature in Object Trader trade panel. It can both get you into and out of a trade quickly and efficiently. You can hover over the button and enable it when you are getting close to a potential resistance or support area, or a predictor.

Last word: Don't fixate on mistakes. Learn from them and move on. Fix your attention on what's right, not what's wrong. If you continue to struggle with a particular problem, don't focus on the problem; rather focus on OVERCOMING the problem. You can do this. One step at a time. You are training your mind to see and act in certain efficient and effective ways.

If you need a little help, call Gary. He is very accessible and willing to talk to Viper Traders. He can likely direct you to certain videos that will help you with certain issues.

By your name I am assuming you know the LORD. The most important thing to remember is what David learned and confessed in the Psalms:

Psalm 18: 34 He teaches my hands to make war, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.
Psa 144:1 A Psalm of David. Blessed be the LORD my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle -

The Lord Jesus said: "Apart from Me, you can do nothing." John 15:5

And what the Apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 10: 31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

May the LORD bless you as you look to Him to enable you and teach you to do what you do for His glory.


Blessings in Christ Jesus,

Chuck T

"for in Him we live and move and have our being, (Acts 17:28 NKJ)

Thanks Chuck for the follow-up.

I am hanging in there with this system. I do share many of my wif's frsutrations, but try to be more subjective long term. (She tells me to move on and try the TAS indicators.)

Viper is a very expensive monthly endeavor because I have to pay while I learn, but thats ok if the end result helps me make a living from it. If I give up now I just threw away money (so far over 500 bucks) rather than invest it.

I will certainly watch more videos as you recommended.

Yes, I am a messianic Jew, or what others call a Jew For Jesus. Did Bible college and then ordained.
Worked for several minitries and even pastored for a while. Until Lyme Disease took over.
I dont affiliate myself with many of the modern/popular evangelicals (or what are called evanjellyfish) since they are not Christians, but rather moralists. "dont smoke dont chew, dont go with girls that do." Modern day Pharisees who dont know the beauty of the gospel and what it means to be justified. I appeciate when anyone quotes Scrupture as you did! My Bible teacher used to say (if you went to his congregation) to "bring your Bible and your brains." Nobody hardly does that anymore. They "punch in" and "punch out" with god.

Nevertheless, hopefully I will learn how to use the Viper system. Todays seminar has nothing to do with me since it is for the ones doing well with Viper. It is frustrating since I am lost as a newbie, but the meetings are for the ones who "get it." As I said, I will hang in there until I have no more subscription money.

Thanks again for the admonition.

Just a follow-up to anyone wanting to know the final outcome. As my wife originally said, I concur.

When all is said and done, after about 4 months we are not happy with the subscription to Viper and would not recommend them to anyone. I am only bummed that we didnt see the critical review posted earlier by a futures.io member.

They continue to push funding, funding and more funding rather than teach us how to use the charts. Last Saturday was "Obtain a Funded Trading Account Part 2. First it is LeeLoo and then it is how to use their newest creation called the "fundometer". They seem to spend more time on the new indicator that tells them when they are in drawdown, than teach the new people.

Training sessions should not include funding, rather they should set up an entirely different day to push the funding programs and not use the primary teaching days. I dont even go to the training any longer because I end up learning nothing about how to use the indicators.

It is scalping at best and it is sure to make them money since they have been using it for many years. But I am not prepared to pay 249 a month to lose money while I learn. I have grown tired of hearing "did you take that" or I called that" when what I initially heard "be careful". How do you take a trade with a be careful warning, but if you did take it and it worked out, only to hear did you take that? Is it me??

Gary is a great guy, but this isnt about personalities. It is about paying for an indicator that you can walk away from learning how it works. And as mentioned before, if they knew it was freezing up the NT8 at the time I subscribed, why would they charge full price? I went almost 2 months unable to use the NT8 platform watching them use NT7 without issue. The one good thing about not being able to trade the first two months was that it saved me money from being stopped out.