loantelligence 

Great Job Steve, 8300+ for five days....that's better than Real Estate.....Im a retired RE Broker.....looking for that additional income source... Did you use Buy and Hold, Scalping, Breakout, Momentum, Trend Following...what was your best technique for the competition....did you discover anything new....would be interested in seeing your trades if possible.... STeve

Thanks.

Sorry, there is no timestamp on the recorded trades, and they didn't show up on the charts on the sim platform. So no trades to post. And I was going way too fast sometimes with the market turns for manual recording.

I will talk more about my methods next week.

@loantelligence (and others who are interested),

Thanks for the question about how I earned $8,000 sim bucks in 5 days with 40 micro contracts (the equivalent of 4 E-mini contracts).

How did I almost get into the top 10 out of 1400 last week during the Micro Challenge? (I was actually in the top 10 most of the time, but my luck ran out at the end). What did I do the same, and what did I change? What did I learn that can help me going forward? (I used the E-mini charts for the trade determinations because they have much more volume).

This reminded me of the summer school bicycle obstacle course I did in 3rd grade where I had to complete the course with the fastest time, riding between orange traffic cones. I had already seen the great times of others and knew I had just one chance and so I went ALL OUT. I think I crashed at the very end, but not until I had cleared the last cone. (I came in first place those many years ago.)

1) Big Picture. I normally do a lot of scalping for 10 ticks or less, but in this case I was looking more at the big picture. I knew lots of traders were going to give it all they had, and I needed to catch the big moves and let them run. This was especially true since I needed to guess on the overnight direction each night - knowing there were many Europeans on board. I realized that this was a huge risk, but out of 1400 guys in just 5 days, I would either be very right or very wrong and with a free competition, I had nothing to lose by "going for it." Indeed, it was a mad dash to the finish line.

The fractal nature of the market says that the big moves and small moves all look the same when the time stamps are removed. I knew if I treated the hourly market like I normally trade on a 5 min chart I might do okay. I also had a life to live, and refused to be glued to my screen for 5 whole trading days. So I had to try to catch the big moves.

But this competition showed me that I might benefit by using the big picture more in my daily trading.

2) Major market conditions. What was I looking at each day while observing the big picture? The same 3 things I look for in the small time frames: trends, ends of trends, and consolidations. At the beginning, one of the reasons I was willing to put on the max of 40 contracts (10 each of MES, MNQ, MYM, and M2k) was because the market looked extremely toppy to me, and fortunately I was right and was actually in the #1 position for a few hours. I could write whole papers on each of these market conditions that I love to trade, but many others have already done so. (I may write more later.)

3) Reversing losing positions. No mechanical stops. For many people, this goes contrary to good trading, but under the circumstances, it was simply a race to the finish line and I had to trust my entries and go with them. There were several times where I flattened losing positions when I felt the market was changing directions. The downside of this is that there were times when I would have been flat, but because I had no stops set and I wasn't watching my screen I had huge draw downs. Not good at all!! Trading without mechanical or mental stops is suicide.

4) Staying with the immediate trend. Along with #3 above, if I felt the market was changing directions, I would change my short/long positions. I took my losses quickly (good) and changed direction and guessed right most of the time. To determine the trend, I use a 50 SMA that changes color. The larger timeframe chart and the faster timeframe chart need to match before taking an entry. Related to this, I have a new stop and reverse indicator I downloaded from FIO called "SuperTrend" that has helped keep me going the right way. But it's never a guarantee, especially once we enter a range condition.

5) Support and resistance areas. I assumed that at major areas of support or resistance I would at least get a small bounce or maybe more. So this was a great place to take profits. I have also been using the market profile to determine these areas. In addition to previous days' highs and lows, I also now look at the open and close, the point of control (POC) and the "value areas", which are defined as the range during the day where most (70%) of the trades occurred.

6) Cumulative Delta. The cumulative delta and volume delta charts let me see "under the hood" a bit. They show whether the buyers or the sellers are more aggressive. Knowing the big players are really the market movers, I want to constantly try to discern the intent of the "big boys." The cumulative delta chart is right more than it is wrong, but I still have to be very careful to trade what I actually see on the price chart.

7) A great attitude. I knew that this competition didn't matter. It was a game. In real trading, I have read, the best traders are the ones who don't get emotionally attached to anything with their positions or market direction. While this is hard, I did notice that I traded very well partly because I didn't really care! The irony is not lost on me. The benefit of the new Micro E-minis is that I can be trading with LESS RISK and have less pressure on me and make better decisions. The other main benefit is that when I take a small loss, it is truly as "small" loss and one that doesn't matter. It is when those losses really hurt that our trading judgment is impaired.

At the beginning of this journal, I said once I reached $5000 on my live Amp account I would change to the E-mini's again. With the current market volatility and the success I had with the micro's, perhaps I will consider sticking with the micro's longer and work on proper scaling techniques.

I will be happy to elaborate further on anything.


.

sstheo 

@loantelligence (and others who are interested), Thanks for the question about how I earned $8,000 sim bucks in 5 days with 40 micro contracts (the equivalent of 4 E-mini contracts). How did I almost get into the top 10 out of 1400 last week during the Micro Challenge? (I was actually in the top 10 most of the time, but my luck ran out at the end). What did I do the same, and what did I change? What did I learn that can help me going forward? (I used the E-mini charts for the trade determinations because they have much more volume). This reminded me of the summer school bicycle obstacle course I did in 3rd grade where I had to complete the course with the fastest time, riding between orange traffic cones. I had already seen the great times of others and knew I had just one chance and so I went ALL OUT. I think I crashed at the very end, but not until I had cleared the last cone. (I came in first place those many years ago.) 1) Big Picture. I normally do a lot of scalping for 10 ticks or less, but in this case I was looking more at the big picture. I knew lots of traders were going to give it all they had, and I needed to catch the big moves and let them run. This was especially true since I needed to guess on the overnight direction each night - knowing there were many Europeans on board. I realized that this was a huge risk, but out of 1400 guys in just 5 days, I would either be very right or very wrong and with a free competition, I had nothing to lose by "going for it." Indeed, it was a mad dash to the finish line. The fractal nature of the market says that the big moves and small moves all look the same when the time stamps are removed. I knew if I treated the hourly market like I normally trade on a 5 min chart I might do okay. I also had a life to live, and refused to be glued to my screen for 5 whole trading days. So I had to try to catch the big moves. But this competition showed me that I might benefit by using the big picture more in my daily trading. 2) Major market conditions. What was I looking at each day while observing the big picture? The same 3 things I look for in the small time frames: trends, ends of trends, and consolidations. At the beginning, one of the reasons I was willing to put on the max of 40 contracts (10 each of MES, MNQ, MYM, and M2k) was because the market looked extremely toppy to me, and fortunately I was right and was actually in the #1 position for a few hours. I could write whole papers on each of these market conditions that I love to trade, but many others have already done so. (I may write more later.) 3) Reversing losing positions. No mechanical stops. For many people, this goes contrary to good trading, but under the circumstances, it was simply a race to the finish line and I had to trust my entries and go with them. There were several times where I flattened losing positions when I felt the market was changing directions. The downside of this is that there were times when I would have been flat, but because I had no stops set and I wasn't watching my screen I had huge draw downs. Not good at all!! Trading without mechanical or mental stops is suicide. 4) Staying with the immediate trend. Along with #3 above, if I felt the market was changing directions, I would change my short/long positions. I took my losses quickly (good) and changed direction and guessed right most of the time. To determine the trend, I use a 50 SMA that changes color. The larger timeframe chart and the faster timeframe chart need to match before taking an entry. Related to this, I have a new stop and reverse indicator I downloaded from FIO called "SuperTrend" that has helped keep me going the right way. But it's never a guarantee, especially once we enter a range condition. 5) Support and resistance areas. I assumed that at major areas of support or resistance I would at least get a small bounce or maybe more. So this was a great place to take profits. I have also been using the market profile to determine these areas. In addition to previous days' highs and lows, I also now look at the open and close, the point of control (POC) and the "value areas", which are defined as the range during the day where most (70%) of the trades occurred. 6) Cumulative Delta. The cumulative delta and volume delta charts let me see "under the hood" a bit. They show whether the buyers or the sellers are more aggressive. Knowing the big players are really the market movers, I want to constantly try to discern the intent of the "big boys." The cumulative delta chart is right more than it is wrong, but I still have to be very careful to trade what I actually see on the price chart. 7) A great attitude. I knew that this competition didn't matter. It was a game. In real trading, I have read, the best traders are the ones who don't get emotionally attached to anything with their positions or market direction. While this is hard, I did notice that I traded very well partly because I didn't really care! The irony is not lost on me. The benefit of the new Micro E-minis is that I can be trading with LESS RISK and have less pressure on me and make better decisions. The other main benefit is that when I take a small loss, it is truly as "small" loss and one that doesn't matter. It is when those losses really hurt that our trading judgment is impaired. At the beginning of this journal, I said once I reached $5000 on my live Amp account I would change to the E-mini's again. With the current market volatility and the success I had with the micro's, perhaps I will consider sticking with the micro's longer and work on proper scaling techniques. I will be happy to elaborate further on anything. .

Very interesting, thank you for sharing. Excellent thread!

#7 was awesome.

Thanks for sharing

spideysteve 

#7 was awesome. Thanks for sharing

It was actually a powerful epiphany--Trading with less risk frees my brain for better trading decisions. (And keeps me alive longer!)

The message is that I should probably be lowering my risk constantly. I am great at picking scalp trades and bigger trades, but I should SLOW DOWN and use less firepower.

sstheo 

We are all traders ourselves in a free chat room-- and of necessity need to focus on our own trading. This being said, we are open to new traders who have been trading for at least 12 full months and feel like they are at least intermediate level traders. We all are open minded and eager to learn things from each other, but we need the room participants to have a foundation of the basics because we are discussing some advanced level stuff like market auction theory, value areas, overnight inventory bias, cumulative delta, and book trading. If you (or anyone reading this) feel like you have something to contribute but are not yet at the top of your game and want to rub shoulders with some others, then please send me a private message.

Why private message? Why not out in the open? Are you selling anything whatsoever or affiliated in any way with anyone who is?

You continue to mention this trading room, but only in the shadows, which is suspicious.

It's almost as if you are using our site to promote your own? I'm sure you wouldn't do that right, with the intention of turning to paid services later?

The negativity of my post is unfortunately based on 10 years experience with vendors who do exactly these things, and lie about them.

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

Big Mike 

Why private message? Why not out in the open? Are you selling anything whatsoever or affiliated in any way with anyone who is? You continue to mention this trading room, but only in the shadows, which is suspicious. It's almost as if you are using our site to promote your own? I'm sure you wouldn't do that right, with the intention of turning to paid services later? The negativity of my post is unfortunately based on 10 years experience with vendors who do exactly these things, and lie about them. Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

Hi Mike. Sorry for the work in the shadows. I was only doing what I thought you wanted me to do--

This is my memory (which my wife will tell you is totally unreliable, LOL): I actually posted the link to the room a couple months ago and you asked me to remove it. I thought it odd. I see now that I may have misinterpreted whatever comment I saw. So I really appreciate your post today.

I am the one who started the room, and I have no intention of charging for it. The idea was to support each other, and that is happening quite well. Trading is often a solitary exercise, and we humans are programmed for to be social creatures, although I admit I am somewhat of a hermit at times.

I am learning lots of great new things from the other traders in the room, many of whom are also members of FIO. It is a great tribute you Mike that traders keep coming to FIO to mingle and share. Our room is called "Ohana Traders." Ohana is Hawaiian for "family." The room is like my own little FIO where people can safely try on new trading ideas, and get some help when they are having a tough day. And I am satisfied when I see people congratulating others on a good trade (for example).

We have a lot of fun in the room, and we keep the language clean. And we don't let people glory in winning trades they made if they didn't post the entry -at the time of the entry- for others to potentially tag along. And no one is allowed to sell anything.

But now that you have invited me to post in the open, I hesitate to do so. We are really not set up for dozens of people. I don't want to get overwhelmed and overrun. We are looking for traders who have some screen time under their belt so they can actually contribute to the discussion as well as learn. We are not really ready for new traders who need more hand holding. Each trader is trying do their own trading too. We don't have one moderator calling trades. I am trying to keep the depth of the discussion at the point where the best traders feel like they are benefiting. This way they feel like sharing... So I am trying to strike a fine balance. I arbitrarily decided that one year of trading experience is probably the only requirement I could reasonably make of people wanting to join the room. We have had a total of about 40 people so far, but our consistent core group is about 15 solid guys and 1 woman.

Based on your many years of experience, I am open to your suggestions on how to invite true contributors and other issues.


.

Hi Mike and Sstheo,

This is Borderline from Ohana Room, that 1 woman LOL. I was invited in Sstheo's room by a fellow trader whom I have known for a while now due to our participation in another room run by a prop trading firm.

I am happy to say that because of Sstheo and Ohana I ended up registering for FIO after hearing about the good reviews. Thus is a way it was Sstheo and other members that promoted your service here I can assure you that as a member of Ohana Trading Room, I am not being asked for any payments of any sorts.

Sstheo runs the place with integrity and he asks every participant to cite sources and give credit to the rightful owners.

It is an environment with like minded people that I feel everyone pushes each other to do better and be accountable. Just a group of traders trying to get better everyday, learn more and tackle their technical or emotional issues with their trading.

I am really grateful as a continuously developing trader for the content on FIO (which I am still in the exploring phase) and for the support,advice, and critiques I get in Ohana!

Thanks for creating them

Hi Ayngannrand,
You've corroborated the glowing impression that Sstheo gave about the modus operandi of Ohaha traders (Ohaha trading room),but can you clarify whether you're all futures day traders or a mixture of swing,day or even position traders.
Why is there no information about the activities of your community online?

Bobiz 

Hi Ayngannrand, You've corroborated the glowing impression that Sstheo gave about the modus operandi of Ohaha traders (Ohaha trading room),but can you clarify whether you're all futures day traders or a mixture of swing,day or even position traders. Why is there no information about the activities of your community online?

I will let borderline answer the first question, since you asked her, but she is fairly new and may not know the answer to the second question.

We only started on April 16 of this year, and we started as the unofficial chat room for MES Capital funded traders. MES is one of the "seeders" for those who pass a OneUp evaluation. Here is my post in my OneUp/MES journal that kicked it off.

My MES Live Account Journal (OneUp) MES Capital asked me to head their Funded Trader text-only Chat room. That was an honor. I started today. It was pretty painless since everyone was quite professional. And we had great discussions today with some very experienced traders. So …

Yours truly was the sole catalyst for a funded trader chat room for OneUp/MES - one they had advertised for over a year but I never saw. So I talked with MES and OneUp and they agreed to let me run the room.

We had plenty of new people coming in because we were getting people who had just passed the OneUp combine. Unfortunately, for legal reasons, after a month or so MES decided to pull the plug on us and have OneUp run their own funded trader chat room.

But by that time we had enough people who wanted to stay that we officially broke off from MES and kept going.

I was actually kicked off of the OneUp platform completely because people kept asking about "the other funded trader chat room" (ours) and OneUp thought I had put them up to it. I had to beg for readmission with lots of promises. So our first rule is "We don't advertise on OneUp."

So I continued to look for good traders and thought of FIO. But I wanted to grow organically, not too fast. My motivation was simply to have a place for "cooperative collaboration."

So we are not advertising online except for in this room and not loudly. We are not trying to grow fast, and we think 30 to 50 people is probably the max. This is why you can't find us online in searches (except on FIO now).

Room members invite others they know, and I mention it here from time to time. Many who come don't stay - whether they blow their accounts or just don't find much benefit. That is fine. Those who find it helpful stick around.

Hope that helps.