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Beast, you have 4 posts in over a year. For me enough said!
Post more about trading to be at least a credible source. We have seen this happen for years here, so yes we are going to critical. Get involved it will help your trading.
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
I agree with all you've said. Personally, I've not been able to make money with Bob. I just can't take trades at the high or low of the day, in the direction of the high or low, and be happy with scalping 4 to 6 ticks on a momentum play. Initially, he was shooting for 10 ticks on 2 contracts, but lately, he's been happy with getting 4-6 ticks. He's generally making 750-1100 a day, but that's on close to 20 trades, on 3 lots per. So transaction costs can eat you up pretty quickly. He is very helpful, totally agree with that, and accessible. Today, he's up 800, and his ticket fees are 350-some, over 20 trades. He's very risk adverse, but that can keep him out of big moves. He was short in the NQ yesterday at 6064, got out break even, before it dropped 50 points. He's got 100-125 people in the room, so at 300/month, that's a pretty sweet income for him, 360,000 a year. But he certainly works hard, I'll give him that.
He will make about the same amount even when the markets are making big moves, because he doesn't stay in for runners. Yesterday the NQ went from 87 to 11 and back to 60, and he missed all of those moves. His total for the day was 1115, and most of that came from natural gas, apparently, plus lots of other small trades. So, if you're looking to learn to trade and stay in large moves in the market, this is not the place for you to learn to do that.
He does tend to get distracted by watching all the different markets, and can miss good moves in 1 market because he's scanning all the other markets that he watches (he follows 14-16 markets). That can be frustrating. His direction calls are generally good, as his targets can be for support or resistance. He has a particular affinity for trading cattle, which can be a slow market, and he can miss good NQ trades while he's messing with a cattle trade for 5 ticks.
As you mention, he's very reactive to the moment, and looks almost solely at what the order flow is at the price point at that second. Very little reference to any longer time charts or fitting the trade into the context of a larger trend.
I think he posts his results on his website, but doesn't break it down into number of trades, amount per trade, etc. He shows what he makes every day on his DOM. He does help people get through the TopStep combines as well. He is OK to listen to, no berating the markets, no crowing, no yodeling, no blaming market riggers, etc. So it's OK, if that's your style of trading, but after being in for 3 months, and not being able to follow his trades and make money, I think I'll move on. He is transparent, and accessible, and overall profitable, but scalping for 4-6 ticks and buying and selling breakouts (although he refuses to call it that, though it's exactly what he does) is just not the style of trading I'm looking for. He is in and out of trades in minutes, if that appeals to you. He's incapable of sitting in a trade for any length of time, even with a winner, or letting it run.
He's apparently close with Dr. Dean Handley, as a matter of fact, he has him speaking in the room right now. Dean says he monitors 4-5 rooms a day, and I guess this is one of them.
He will do his best to keep trading until everyone is green for the day. His trials are pretty reasonable. But it is about 300 a month for a quarterly membership. The people in the room seem to be pleased with the results, so you may be as well.
Thanks for offerering your insights. I too agree with everything that you stated. Bob's frantic scalping style is not for everyone, that's for sure. I'm disappointed that he posts his Gross profit for the day and not his Net. It would be a much more realistic view of his performance.
He does make money, but each day can feel like a root canal at times.
Best of luck to you and all other traders that read this post.
Yeah Bob does trade the thin ones such as Copper (HG), Cattle (LE), Cocoa (CC) and Sugar (SB). Lately he is interested in RTY and EMD as well. No way everyone gets filled on his trades, he's trading on NT sim so he gets filled easily.
The more I'm in his room the more I know that the pace is too quick for me. Too many instruments being followed. I wish he concentrated on just the NQ, ES, and one or two others.
But listen Bob works hard, he is honest and ethical and as transparent as they come. And he seemingly really understands order flow. He also serves a room from beginner to advanced traders. Seemingly many are in Top Step combines. So I know he feels compelled to trade even when the markets are unfavorable. Personally I think he's a good person and a solid but hyper trader. He's also easy to listen to which is important, and clear about his market entries/exits.
As I've said before people should try his room for $10 if that is of interest to them and draw their own conclusions. I've done the room route and he's the closest I've found to being the real deal.
Ok again my thoughts. Feel free to disagree but let's keep it civil.
Really you need to look at the live trading, at how he is not transparent and do not believe what is said by him or on his site.
On Wednesday I complained to reviewer, Dean Handley that he was not fully transparent taking his DOM off the screen and magically reversing his horrible losses at times. You can catch him doing this but it is very difficult because he is always shifting his DOM's on and off the screen. I asked him to leave only his DOM's on and forget the charts, he says he can't do it because he is "teaching". (who know's how many lots he is trading off screen) (when he traded other accounts a couple of years ago he accidentally showed a huge lot size in a loss (trading for others that I saw!)
He lost almost every trade on Thursday,over -$3500. Bob was saying that it is the ES,the Futures and how he should be trading coffee and the dax. Really bad trades all week. If you do the trail and do the opposite and report it here.
I ask Dean the other promotion/review website about statements because there is no "!" in the DOM indicating real money. It only says "Veritas" Also a good friend of mine said, a couple of years ago that Bob lost 50k of his money and he wouldn't touch Bob Amico with a 15 foot pole.
I do like his website, his statistics stable record and his manner is okay. Bob seems nice enough.
But after this 3rd or 4th trial of 5 days of live observation I could never count on this and put money on the line.
And if you want a camtasia recording, I might still have it. Amazing how when he is down, puts up his "break" sign and the next time I saw his DOM it was only down -$375 (made $800 at some point). And then at the end of the day his DOM $575 flipped instantly to $1200 (from another DOM off screen that was NEVER shown or told).
I wasted my time and another $10 bucks.
It is too bad we have another failed attempt here for a decent trader/room. From live observation.
Hi EStrade I thought I would chime in since I started (I think?) this post to this thread. First off, thanks for sharing your experience. I wasn't in the Veritas Trading Room last week so I can't comment on what you saw or what might have occurred. What I would like to do is add to my own previous observations.
There have been many times when I've tried to trade along with Bob and for a variety of reasons I just couldn't. Some due to his frantic approach and often due to my own lack of commitment to following him. I have been unable to match Bob's trading. And, once in a trade it's unrealistic to expect to manage your trades as he does because he does so by instinct/gut/volatility and usually doesn't inform viewers of his actions until afterward. Basically once the first target is hit your on your own. "Trade 'em as you see fit, right"? "I got you ticks" right? Hahaha...
Lately, I have noticed an increased focus on the ES which I had welcomed. I like the ES though Bob doesn't necessarily.
Calls it the Extra Slow...
I live on the west coast so there were times when I would join the trade room at 6:30 AM PST and see that he was up $1,000 or so and he would then trade the US session in a guarded manner as he wouldn't want to give back much profit. So be it... Or close perhaps earlier than I would have liked since I didn't participate in the earlier trading.
Bob will frequently have CL, KC or other instruments on as longer-term daily plays. I've always felt he was fair with assigning profit or loss to these trades. In many ways these were my favorite trades in his room.
Bob will usually point of the verbal winners that he has given throughout the day but ignore the verbal losers. None count as part of the "room total". He's a bit of a promoter, I can't blame him too much there.
He has a bad habit of asking in the room if "everybody is good" after a successful trade of his but not after his losers, which is really when he needs to be doing so. Trade rooms tend to be very Alpha...
I wish he would give his net at days end and not the gross because he takes many trades throughout the day and commissions are a significant expense. He chooses not to, his room his rules I guess...
As for trading ability and transparency I may be wrong but I am still going to give him strong passing grades in both categories. I've seen enough of his good days and the bad to state with conviction that he is honest and overall profitable, even if not as transparent as you would like him to be and not profitable every day (who is?). If you don't agree that is OK, I totally respect your oppinions.
Maybe he's not for you? Bet it his style, manner or results? Nothing wrong with that. He's not for me either but I find myself defending him because I think he's one of the good people in futures trade room industry. He's generous with his time and helping a lot of traders learn to trade.
Anyway thanks for sharing your experiences and for allowing me to add to mine.
Private message me if you want to talk about this.
Thanks and I understand what you are saying. My review is ONLY based on LOOKING at what I saw with the DOMS.
"Really you need to look at the live trading, at how he is not transparent and do not believe what is said by him or on his site." Maybe it was not clear.
If you enter the room and see his DOM is in profits and you didn't see every trade at the end of the day, it is not transparent. Most of the time he is transparent, but not when he gets into trouble. This is not the first time that I observed this and actually trading on his other screen.
If you are giving him passing grades then does that indicate you are willing to risk your account and agree with the way he thinks and make his trading decisions.
I am only posting what I saw and could not see (his DOM increasing profits due to trades not seen (or called)).
This is why on the winners and winning days,, it is easy. After I complained to Dean then the next day Bob lost $3500 trying harder to be transparent (possibly). Dean showed me Bob's notes which he send Dean everyday (no statement). Also, if you don't see a ! in the DOM it is not real money. It does not mean that Bob did not make 300k, but there are times when he can be trading off screen with unknown lot size.
This is not a style or method that is working for me at the moment. If it works for you in real or sim money then you should post your experience here. That is all.
Having spent time in the room on multiple trials (paying $10 a pop), I can say with 100% conviction that Bob is all smoke and mirrors and isn't trading with real money; and why should he? He's making over $300K playing the Wizard of Trading Oz with order flow. The sad truth is he's simply a breakout trader looking for a few ticks before getting stopped out. If making money in the long term trading this simple method was possible, there would tons of trading millionaires starting with $10K accounts. Statistically, breakout trading has no edge. Professionals are known to fade breakouts leaving the novices holding the bag. Google it if you have doubts.
Furthermore, there is no way on God's green earth a room member can emulate all of Bob's trades. There are too many in markets that trade by appointment with no liquidity. This is by design to allow him to show a scalping profit while the markets you traded, with some liquidity, generate a loss. Also, there is an Internet lag between the room and the time it shows on your screen, so shadow trading is a mirage.
Bob happliy employs Dean Handley as in house shill, to tell everyone how great Bob's calls are without a shred of evidence either of them are trading with live, real money accounts. Handley claims he's trading in 5 rooms at the same time. Anyone with knowledge of what it takes to trade profitably knows that is a crock.
It's well documented, but worth repeating, that Handley has been exposed as a bad actor who manipulated FDA patient trial data when he worked for a drug manufacturer to push the drug for approval, knowing that the data was false and thereby putting the health of the American public who may need this drug at serious risk. He was censored, tried, and found guilty by the FDA and SEC; and, in disgrace, was unceremoniously terminated by his employer. Shamed, unemployed and unemployable, "Dr." Dean reinvented himself as the Einstein of trading rooms, giving out glowing recommendations from all room operators who would pay him a monthly fee. Pay for Play if you will.
Last but not least, Bob has had his own run in with the law as an admitted felon in the largest mortgage scam in NY resulting in tens of $ millions in losses to banks and individual investors. That's not to say a crook can't redeem himself and turn over a new leaf, but many say a leopard doesn't change his spots. Same old wine in a brand new bottle? You decide for yourself.
Save the $10 and donate it to a worthwhile charity, not Bob Amico and Dean Handley's bank accounts.
