NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Where do I go from here?


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one spetscom with 12 posts (17 thanks)
    2. looks_two binaryscalper with 4 posts (6 thanks)
    3. looks_3 soumen with 3 posts (1 thanks)
    4. looks_4 Keab with 2 posts (1 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Massive l with 6 thanks per post
    2. looks_two eudamonia with 3 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 binaryscalper with 1.5 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 spetscom with 1.4 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 10,206 views
    2. thumb_up 52 thanks given
    3. group 19 followers
    1. forum 40 posts
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Where do I go from here?

  #21 (permalink)
spetscom
Niles, Michigan
 
Posts: 73 since Sep 2018
Thanks Given: 83
Thanks Received: 113


Xtrader22 View Post
First, let me congradulate you for being interested in trading and investing at such a young age. Although I was young when I started, I wasn't 18 yrs old, so kudos for that.



A couple things I picked up from your post: it might be a good idea to stepback and gain some perspective. Sometimes fresh new ideas come when you step away from the markets for a bit. I don't know how long that would be for you, but you'll know b/c trading ideas that seemed like it couldn't come together before, starts to come together once your mind is refreshed. Sounds corny, but its absolutely true.



Yes, I can understand what you are saying about the flow of a market. Whether its the s&p's or cattle, there is a distinct flow and characteristic to every market. Part of trading is to understand that flow, but that's only part. Work on one trading method, come up with some rules for it and trade it that one method. In mark douglas's book "the disciplined trader" he mentions that you need to break down your strategies to just one and then implement and test it before running it live. Also sounds like your both a coder and a trader. I would suggest maybe just to be a trader first and test out that one strategy.



Here's some examples on how to choose some potential strategies:



1.breakdown ES into 3 quadrants: a)First quadrant is high volume, high volatility period (9:30am to 11am est). Reversals, breakouts, LOD,HOD could be some of the areas you look at. b)2nd quadrant is much slower probably because lunch and to be honest, alot of traders made their money in the 1st quadrant and have now quit for the day. this would be perfect time to test moving averages, trend trading, pivots and swing trading. this time frame tends to be from 11am to 2pm est. c)3rd quadrant is usually when volatility comes back and sometimes a sharp reversal headed into 5pm close. all of the strategies I listed in the first two quadrants would be applicable in the third quadrant since it can be the most unexpected at times if a reversal doesn't happen.



2. Only test shorts. If you've traded futures, forex or stocks for any length of time, then you know that the market moves alot faster coming down. Having said that, there should be a trading setups around just this one phenomenon, whether its moving averages, trend trading or what have you.



3.Losing is part of the game. I say that not to patronize you as you didn't know that already, but to remind you that we are not going to win every trade. If you have indeed mastered the psychological aspect of trading, then we know that every trade you enter will not be a winner. that is the goal mind you, but every trade will not be a winner. Knowing that, create a your orders with a predetermined stop loss that is half of your take profit order. Yes, I know let your profits run. I understand that and know many that follow this rule, but its difficult for that to happen and see till its full fruition. So if you have a 3 point stoploss, then your take profit order needs to be around 5.5 to 6points. This is only an example as I do not know your acct size but your ratio should be close to 2:1 profits over losses. Now even that sometimes cannot happen all the time, so determine when you do u slide that stop loss to breakeven and/or to a small profit once your trade is headed to your profit target. Just because losing is part of the game, you don't need the market to go all the way to your stop loss either. if you can cut that loss even further by exiting quickly on your losses, when you profit, you should be able to overcome your losses with just one or two wins.



4.Is ES the right market for you? Why not the russell or the dow? Just throwing it out there. Reason being is the russell 2000 (RTY not TF) has less herky jerkyness (i know this isn't even a word..lol) and can be less stressful b/c each tick is only worth $5 and not $12.50 like ES. Russell might be more conducive to your personality or trading style..test it and try it out.



In conclusion, alot of successful traders make their targets and move away from their charts and computers when they hit their goal. There should also be a goal on losses also. Once you hit it, stop and don't trade on your live platform. If you still feel the desire to trade or test, move to your demo platform. All in all though I'd say to gain some perspective, go do something else other than trading for 16 hrs, so that when you come back, your mind is fresh and brimming with ideas! Sounds like you have alot going for you so don't burn yourself out before your 25yrs old buddy



Hey thank you for all of that advice. It’s pretty interesting to hear from someone who learned from a floortrader on the CBOT. I have moved away from the ES as I find the NQ more attractive in terms of tick value and movement. The charts look cleaner. I really want to get into CL as well but I don’t think I’m ready for the tick value+movement speed of it. I find myself being more of an intuitive trader, by that I basically mean I combine all of my experience of staring at charts and study of technicals to draw conclusions on the fly. I tried a mechanical/algo approach but it just doesn’t fit me.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
NexusFi Journal Challenge - April 2024
Feedback and Announcements
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
My NT8 Volume Profile Split by Asian/Euro/Open
NinjaTrader
New Micros: Ultra 10-Year & Ultra T-Bond -- Live Now
Treasury Notes and Bonds
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Get funded firms 2023/2024 - Any recommendations or word …
61 thanks
Funded Trader platforms
38 thanks
NexusFi site changelog and issues/problem reporting
27 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
18 thanks
The Program
18 thanks
  #22 (permalink)
 binaryscalper 
Las Vegas, NV., USA
 
Experience: Master
Platform: TradingView, Ninjatrader
Broker: AMP and Ninjatrader brokerage
Trading: All Eminis: Russell 2000, S&P's, Nasdaq and Dow
Posts: 15 since Sep 2018
Thanks Given: 17
Thanks Received: 12


spetscom View Post
Hey thank you for all of that advice. It’s pretty interesting to hear from someone who learned from a floortrader on the CBOT. I have moved away from the ES as I find the NQ more attractive in terms of tick value and movement. The charts look cleaner. I really want to get into CL as well but I don’t think I’m ready for the tick value+movement speed of it. I find myself being more of an intuitive trader, by that I basically mean I combine all of my experience of staring at charts and study of technicals to draw conclusions on the fly. I tried a mechanical/algo approach but it just doesn’t fit me.

Cool, once you get your system together, crude oil is a great market, but like u said, it moves fast and the tick value increases quickly. Some days I see oil (I don't actively trade CL) doing over 200 points so its definetly a market where opportunities are in abundance.

I know what you mean by trading intuitively and I wish you the best, I would like to think tho that having at least one setup allows you to plan ahead and be patient for your trades. But I do see intuitive trading as a big draw as a way to trade. Just don't know that its entirely profitable in long run.

good luck my friend and good trading

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #23 (permalink)
spetscom
Niles, Michigan
 
Posts: 73 since Sep 2018
Thanks Given: 83
Thanks Received: 113



Xtrader22 View Post
Cool, once you get your system together, crude oil is a great market, but like u said, it moves fast and the tick value increases quickly. Some days I see oil (I don't actively trade CL) doing over 200 points so its definetly a market where opportunities are in abundance.



I know what you mean by trading intuitively and I wish you the best, I would like to think tho that having at least one setup allows you to plan ahead and be patient for your trades. But I do see intuitive trading as a big draw as a way to trade. Just don't know that its entirely profitable in long run.



good luck my friend and good trading



Yes I feel like the word intuitive has been kind of marred or used as a scapegoat to justify random trading/sloppy trading. I should clarify my definition more. For example, one pattern I noticed a lot with the ES was that if it was a big trend day towards the upside, it would tend to gas out after its 3rd parabolic move upward. While it may still end the day higher, I noticed after the 3 parabolic movements it would gas, and have a sharp pullback. It was a low risk opportunity. I didn’t have the criteria for it written down somewhere i should say. I struggle with criteria like that because markets are always evolving and changing, so while that pattern may occur multiple times, each instance will have its own subtleties. Therefore, it is easier for my brain to simply remember the general appearance of the pattern and then use real time analysis of the action to decide where my entry point shall be, exits, etc. There are definitely times when I look at a chart and simply have no clue where it is headed, in that case I will not place a trade. Other times I see it and instantly get a reaction to go short or long.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #24 (permalink)
 binaryscalper 
Las Vegas, NV., USA
 
Experience: Master
Platform: TradingView, Ninjatrader
Broker: AMP and Ninjatrader brokerage
Trading: All Eminis: Russell 2000, S&P's, Nasdaq and Dow
Posts: 15 since Sep 2018
Thanks Given: 17
Thanks Received: 12


spetscom View Post
Yes I feel like the word intuitive has been kind of marred or used as a scapegoat to justify random trading/sloppy trading. I should clarify my definition more. For example, one pattern I noticed a lot with the ES was that if it was a big trend day towards the upside, it would tend to gas out after its 3rd parabolic move upward. While it may still end the day higher, I noticed after the 3 parabolic movements it would gas, and have a sharp pullback. It was a low risk opportunity. I didn’t have the criteria for it written down somewhere i should say. I struggle with criteria like that because markets are always evolving and changing, so while that pattern may occur multiple times, each instance will have its own subtleties. Therefore, it is easier for my brain to simply remember the general appearance of the pattern and then use real time analysis of the action to decide where my entry point shall be, exits, etc. There are definitely times when I look at a chart and simply have no clue where it is headed, in that case I will not place a trade. Other times I see it and instantly get a reaction to go short or long.

Right, if you've traded for any length of time, you see these setups. There also could be a major pivot (resistance zone) in that location. Which would clarifying the market pausing and then retracing. Not suggesting to trade more rigid without allowing for "free flowing" intuitive trading, but I think if you look just a layer deeper, it could lead not to just one or two trades, but a consistent setup that happens alot more frequent once you've identified it. Pivot points have long been some of the floor traders "secret" to their success. They traded intuitively within the boundries of support and resistance zones if that makes sense, so take a look at that..u might be surprised how uncanny they are accurate.

good luck my friend and good trading

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #25 (permalink)
spetscom
Niles, Michigan
 
Posts: 73 since Sep 2018
Thanks Given: 83
Thanks Received: 113


Xtrader22 View Post
Right, if you've traded for any length of time, you see these setups. There also could be a major pivot (resistance zone) in that location. Which would clarifying the market pausing and then retracing. Not suggesting to trade more rigid without allowing for "free flowing" intuitive trading, but I think if you look just a layer deeper, it could lead not to just one or two trades, but a consistent setup that happens alot more frequent once you've identified it. Pivot points have long been some of the floor traders "secret" to their success. They traded intuitively within the boundries of support and resistance zones if that makes sense, so take a look at that..u might be surprised how uncanny they are accurate.



good luck my friend and good trading



Could you elaborate more on pivots? I know I could probably just go on Investopedia, but I’d rather hear your take on them since you actually were taught by a floor trader.

Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)
 binaryscalper 
Las Vegas, NV., USA
 
Experience: Master
Platform: TradingView, Ninjatrader
Broker: AMP and Ninjatrader brokerage
Trading: All Eminis: Russell 2000, S&P's, Nasdaq and Dow
Posts: 15 since Sep 2018
Thanks Given: 17
Thanks Received: 12


spetscom View Post
Could you elaborate more on pivots? I know I could probably just go on Investopedia, but I’d rather hear your take on them since you actually were taught by a floor trader.

Pivots are the same thing as support and resistance areas of importance..most are on your charts already, some you can use preloaded indicators and some you manually place them where u believe they are support and resistances areas just by watching the markets.

Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)
 Keab 
London UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart/Prorealtime
Broker: Sierra Chart/prorealtime
Trading: SandP futures
Posts: 510 since Jul 2013
Thanks Given: 122
Thanks Received: 316


spetscom View Post
Hello all, I am new to this forum. I have been reading on here a lot and man this seems to be the first forum on the entire internet to not be filled with toxicity or jerks! I am making this post because I would like some advice, or perhaps some direction from some more experienced futures traders (and I feel like I won't get ripped apart on here). I am experienced in trading stocks, but got into futures (specifically the ES) at around the start of 2018. I really love not getting up and flying to my computer in the morning, frantically checking all of my scanners to try and find a stock that is moving. It is so nice waking up to futures. I get up, look at multiple time frames on the ES, do some analysis, and then wait . I chose the ES because I figured it would be wise to just focus on one futures contract to begin, and the ES is very liquid. With that said, it is a beast to trade.

I am kind of stuck right now in my trading. I have the psychology of trading down. There is always room for improvement obviously, but I have read a lot of trading psychology books, worked with a psychologist, learned from my mistakes, etc. I have my psychology down pretty well. I can place trades with ease, I have a planned stop before I even enter the trade, I don't get euphoria if I win, and I don't have a breakdown if I lose (I am not using sim, I am using my real money). My problem is having a strategy! It seems like so many traders have the opposite problem. I personally know a guy who had a working strategy for trading stocks, but quit trading altogether because of his fear of losing money.

I have worked tirelessly trying to find a strategy for trading the ES, and I can't find much! I have worked tirelessly in NinjaTrader, programming strategies and backtesting them, and some have been profitable, but not profitable enough that I would deploy my capital upon it. I am not one to use many indicators, but I am willing to try anything. I have tried strategies with different moving averages, bollingers, ADX, and every other indicator under the sun, even those weird ones that no ones heard of! But at the end of the day, I feel like indicators and the like are subjective. I feel like by watching the ES day-in and day-out, I as a human (and I'm sure basically every trader) can get an underlying feeling of how the ES is changing in an almost intuitive/subconscious sort of sense. Have you ever had days where your gut just kind of knows where the ES is heading, and then it actually goes there? Where the ES is just flowing, and you are flowing with it. I have had some of those days. I assume by staring at the same instrument for months, watching the tape, just how it moves, you possibly pick up on some of the nuances subconsciously? Either way, I have considered going from an intuitive style of approach towards the ES, but I just have such a hard time with that because it is not backed up by any statistical evidence, which makes it difficult to place the trade (the worst part is, it usually ends up being a winner!)

I guess I am just kind of stuck right now, and it really kills me because I will never throw in the towel on trading. So I will just sit at my computer for 16 hours a day, programming and backtesting, watching the markets, etc. It's probably unhealthy. Trading is what I am passionate about, this is not just something that I came to believing I could "get rich quick", or looking for a guru to follow. I am completely consumed with trading. I got into it when I was 15 (18 now) and I spend all of my time trying to improve. I even enrolled in homeschooling during my last two high school years, just so I could watch the markets in the morning. I always have my charts running, just to glance at them when I walk by. I only say all of this because whenever I tell people I'm a trader, and tell them my age, they tend to discredit me and laugh at me, which really annoys me considering how hard I work at it. I have no friends that are traders over here in Michigan, and this seemed like the friendliest forum to ask for guidance on.

Thanks everyone,
Cade

Hey there,
Check out this thread.


Someone had a similar question and they were recommended, and using successfully, a free course by a bloke called Adam Grimes (it's in the thread). I've had a quick look at the first few videos and he certainly sounds legit. By the sound of it you shouldn't be put off just because it's free!

Top tip, mark out, or always be aware where the open price and 10 min range is, along with the closing price and the 10 min range made beforehand. Make sure you know where they all are for the last few days. It's amazing how much price reacts to it.

Trading is essentially down to two things: working out if price is changing direction or not, and then working out where it's most likely to change direction!

Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)
 CosmicC 
Metairie,la
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS
Trading: Emini ES
Posts: 7 since Oct 2018
Thanks Given: 1
Thanks Received: 3

Cade

I felt the same way. I have been studying the ES during 2018 and found the best strategy for me is to trade the algos 5hr, 1hr, 3min and 1 min with heiken ashi candlesticks.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)
kazz
London
 
Posts: 150 since Apr 2018
Thanks Given: 168
Thanks Received: 78

If you have a passion for trading then, at your age should you not be looking to join a good prop firm and learn how to trade properly with them?

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)
 
xevanchan's Avatar
 xevanchan 
New York City, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader 8
Broker: Dorman Trading
Trading: emini ES/NQ
Posts: 160 since Sep 2018
Thanks Given: 173
Thanks Received: 297


Wow you sound a whole lot like me right now, except i'm a little closer to throwing in the towel. You're not the only 18 year old trying to figure out the /ES. Honestly it seems like you have a better grasp than I do; maybe just trust your gut since you seem to be able to read and predict price action decently. If your psychology is on lock as you say, then the problem has to lie somewhere within your strategy. I don't think you need to test more indicators though, a lot of them are BS anyways. Take with with a grain of salt since though, since I probably shouldn't be giving advice anyway. Good Luck!

Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote




Last Updated on December 21, 2018


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts