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Kinetick vs IB tick data
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Kinetick vs IB tick data

  #21 (permalink)
Elite Member
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I have been using NT with kinetick and IB.

I would like to know which data source is used for actually entering trades via DOM for example?

If kinetick data doesn't perfectly match IB, what good is the data at the moment of truth?

Hopefully my question is clear.

_____
John
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  #22 (permalink)
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Blister View Post
I have been using NT with kinetick and IB.

I would like to know which data source is used for actually entering trades via DOM for example?

If kinetick data doesn't perfectly match IB, what good is the data at the moment of truth?

Hopefully my question is clear.

There is a specific order in which you need to connect to your data feeds in NinjaTrader. I cannot remember what it is, so someone else will have to comment.

But with the right order, what will happen is that your charts are built with Kinetick data. As for how the DOM is built, actually that's a great question and I don't think I know the answer or have ever read the answer. Obviously the DOM is executed on your broker feed, but as for where the L1 and L2 data is coming from that is displayed on the DOM itself, I do not know. You might need to ask @NinjaTrader.

As for data not matching -- IB data is notoriously poor, this is especially true for any type of chart built on actual tick data (tick chart, volume chart, any kind of non-time based chart more or less). So they aren't going to match. What happens is IB is filtering data in order to lower their resource requirements on their end. But as far as price matching/fill price at the time you submit an order, it will be fine.

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  #23 (permalink)
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Thanks mike, I actually asked this question of NT indirectly. But I was dealing with a first level support tech I'm sure,
I'm aware of the connection order significance.

You are right about the orders I think. They are resident on IBs servers.




Big Mike View Post
There is a specific order in which you need to connect to your data feeds in NinjaTrader. I cannot remember what it is, so someone else will have to comment.

But with the right order, what will happen is that your charts are built with Kinetick data. As for how the DOM is built, actually that's a great question and I don't think I know the answer or have ever read the answer. Obviously the DOM is executed on your broker feed, but as for where the L1 and L2 data is coming from that is displayed on the DOM itself, I do not know. You might need to ask @NinjaTrader.

As for data not matching -- IB data is notoriously poor, this is especially true for any type of chart built on actual tick data (tick chart, volume chart, any kind of non-time based chart more or less). So they aren't going to match. What happens is IB is filtering data in order to lower their resource requirements on their end. But as far as price matching/fill price at the time you submit an order, it will be fine.

Mike


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  #24 (permalink)
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Hi
I also use NinaTrader 7 on an IB account and Kinetick datafeed; maybe I can share some of my findings experimenting with the various setups

First, it is fundamental that you connect to Kinetick first, and then to IB.
This will allow you to populate the charts and DOM with Kinetick data, otherwise it will be used as a backup only if that's setup this way in the connection configuration menu.

Also, if you go into the connection setup menu for your IB feed, I usually chose not to use the historical data from IB servers, this ensures that previous candles are only fed from Kinetick, and this speeds up the loading of your charts somehow and avoid many of the errors you can get from IB servers when accessing older data.

Another thing, if you do not subscribe to L2 from Kinetick for example, when you first connect the Kinetick feed, you will have nothing in the DOM and market depth/time&sales windows obviously. But when you connect the IB feed, these three windows will be populated with data from IB

I've used that setup for long time to save on the $20 per month that Kinetick charges for market depth.
The L2 as far as I was concerned was very accurate with IB, but I don't know check for yourself.

Finally, Whenever you place an order through NT7 it goes directly on the IB server and stays there, so you need not be concerned with what data is populating your DOM and so on if you are not buying at market... and even if you are buying at market, the order will still route through IB of course, and they would fill you at any available market price regardless of what you see in your DOM and on your charts; and regardless of what datafeed is used to populate either of the two.

If you have other questions, or need further clarifications, please do not hesitate to ask

Cheers
Fadi

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  #25 (permalink)
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Just my .02 on this subject. If one is placing trades from NT DOM populated with IB data, what is the purpose in paying $50/mo for Kinetick chart data? Why not use IB for both?

Asked another way, if one sees value in having charts fed with true tick data (unfiltered and TCP), where is the value in placing actual trades (your $) via DOM using data (filtered and UDP) you don't want for your charts?

Seems to me another $20/mo for Market Depth/Level 2 so that Kinetick populates the DOM just makes sense, whether trading sim or live.

To the best of my knowledge, when a trade fires in NT DOM using Kinetick data, it fires at the Kinetick price, and doesn't care what IB thinks the current price is.

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  #26 (permalink)
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Excellent question.

_____
John
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  #27 (permalink)
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Any more thoughts on this question.

And what are the current costs for having IB for execution and Kinetick for (i) level II price depth and (ii) with the CME markets (e.g., those that are part of the waiver program).

I'm essentially looking to start trading on NT with this setup and as the thread is a bit old I'm hoping to find out if this is still the best option. And what is the average cost other users are experiencing.

Any helpful comments appreciated.

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  #28 (permalink)
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sands View Post
What are the current costs for having IB for execution and Kinetick for (i) level II price depth and (ii) with the CME markets (e.g., those that are part of the waiver program).

I'm essentially looking to start trading on NT with this setup and as the thread is a bit old I'm hoping to find out if this is still the best option. And what is the average cost other users are experiencing.

I use Kinetick for TICK and IB for Level II for ES trading.
So far IB has not charged for Level II only on ES.

Here is my Kinetick Bill for JUNE 2014:
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I've had some issues in past with Kinetick feed stopping may be due to my platform, may be due to Kinetick. That did not bother me to much.
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Also I have seen times where Kinetick does not agree with other providers. Today, my latest, was when Volume was way off for June 2014 contract in relation to CME data. I am still working to chase that one to ground.
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Depending on the explanation I get will help me determine to continue or not with Kinetick.
In the past my problems were primarily due to my own inexperience, and granted I still have a long way to go.

Oh since the DOM gets its data from Level II I am fairly certain that my DOM (even though I don't use often as I find I way overtrade in the DOM) gets its feed from IB as I don't pay for Kinetick Level II. Yes the order of connect is important. I have to connect Kinetick first and then IB.

As you can see I'm still wrestling with the issue of Kinetick as a data provider as well. Just no magic ball and since everything runs at blink rate it is tough to know if you really saw what you thought you saw. Well today I know I did as pictures don't lie, and both CME and KINETICK data was captured from a simple screen capture at the same time.


Hope this helps some.

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  #29 (permalink)
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I've looked into the costs more since I last posted and think Kinetic offers a great option cost wise however am disappointed that its NT only service, as I'd ideally like to use elsewhere. Which I guess will push me to an alternative e.g., CQG or DTN.

Thanks for the feedback.

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  #30 (permalink)
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sands View Post
I've looked into the costs more since I last posted and think Kinetic offers a great option cost wise however am disappointed that its NT only service, as I'd ideally like to use elsewhere. Which I guess will push me to an alternative e.g., CQG or DTN.

Thanks for the feedback.

Kinetick is just a cheaper version of IQFeed for NinjaTrader. Just use IQFeed directly if you use more than NinjaTrader. There is also a discount for Elite Members.

Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
1) Stop changing things. No new indicators, charts, or methods. Be consistent with what is in front of you first.
2) Start a journal and post to it daily with the trades you made to show your strengths and weaknesses.
3) Set goals for yourself to reach daily. Make them about how you trade, not how much money you make.
4) Accept responsibility for your actions. Stop looking elsewhere to explain away poor performance.
5) Where to start as a trader? Watch this webinar and read this thread for hundreds of questions and answers.
6)
Help using the forum? Watch this video to learn general tips on using the site.

If you want
to support our community, become an Elite Member.

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